Official 2018 Redskins Training Camp/Preseason Thread

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

80% of Perine's carries were behind an OLine featuring guys we grabbed out of Walmart Friday and started Sunday, though lol...

 

The same could be said for Kelley last year, when he was actually hurt, himself.

And in 2016, Kelley was well on his way to a 1000 yard season, if he hadn't have been splitting time with Matt Jones.

[Sandy Monk]

I don't and haven't gotten a lot of the hate for Kelley anyway. Even before the Guice injury, I was all about may the best man win. Of course, it was unlikely that CT or Guice would fall in the depth chart, but all the hate over Kelley as the #3 back was silly to me. If he is indeed trimmed down and looking like the better option for some carries, go with it. I didn't see anything in the first preseason game that made me sick, except for the OL blocking. 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

80% of Perine's carries were behind an OLine featuring guys we grabbed out of Walmart Friday and started Sunday, though lol...

 

Although it looks like it...I was not intending to compare the two.  It was more of a look at what we may expect to see at the RB position this year.  I am interested in seeing Perine running behind guys that have not only played NFL football before but have practiced more than twice with the team before their 1st game. 

[Bigmuss1]

I do not understand all the hate for Fat Rob, he was hurt last year.  His one healthy game versus the Rams with our healthy O line, he was well on his way to a very impactful game.  Of course it would have been nice to add Guice this year to the mix, but Kelly can run and Perine could take some strides forward his sophomore campaign.  IMHO

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

I'm worried about the run game minus Guice. And I realize that I'm in the minority here, but I think Samaje Perine is going to have a good year for us. Yes, he fumbled against the Patriots. Yes, he had a fumble problem last year. But fumbles do happen. I'm hoping that isn't a sign of what's to come moving forward with Perine.

 

He had excellent vision against NE, one hell of a jump cut, and he ran with some damn authority. If he can nip the fumbling problem, I think he, Thompson and Marshall/Bibbs can have a heck of a year in the Skins backfield. I know the general collective on the board is that Perine stinks, but I'm not sure that's the case. Dude played like a man at Oklahoma, and what I saw of Perine in flashes last year and in the preseason game last Thursday looked like Oklahoma Perine to me. I'm optimistic on his improvement. 

 

I'm not a Rob Kelley fan, personally. I think he's a solid journeyman back for a team that needs one. But I don't think he fits in our logjammed backfield. 

 

Do you consider our backfield logjammed still? Let's assume Perine and Thompson now as locks. Would you only keep one more or two? If we keep two more, it seems Kelley is almost a given along with another CT-type (Bibbs or that other guy). 

[beachboy757]

5 minutes ago, Bigmuss1 said:

I do not understand all the hate for Fat Rob, he was hurt last year.  His one healthy game versus the Rams with our healthy O line, he was well on his way to a very impactful game.  Of course it would have been nice to add Guice this year to the mix, but Kelly can run and Perine could take some strides forward his sophomore campaign.  IMHO

When we all first got the news about Guice I was embarrassed by the amount of fans taking out their anger, lashing out, and trashing R Kelley. He just does not deserve that.

[HTTRDynasty]

My issue with both Kelley and Perine is their subpar vision. That is one of the most important traits an RB needs to have for the run game to be consistently successful. A lot of blame can be placed on the OL last year, but I think a larger share of the blame should go to the lack of vision from those two. That’s what had me most excited about Guice, tbh. His vision, and ability to set up next level blocks, is special. 

[ExoDus84]

50 minutes ago, beachboy757 said:

When we all first got the news about Guice I was embarrassed by the amount of fans taking out their anger, lashing out, and trashing R Kelley. He just does not deserve that.

 

Trashing him, no. However, the Skins' front office felt it imperative spend a high draft pick on a RB for a reason. The fans see the same thing the personnel department saw; our roster, outside of CT, was filled with JAG's that led us to the 28th ranked rushing attack, and provided very little offensive spark. Both Rob and Perine averaged less than 4YPC last season if I remember correctly. Guice was supposed to be a major shot in the arm for our running game, and now he's out for the year.

 

I can see where the frustration comes from.

[skinny21]

34 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

My issue with both Kelley and Perine is their subpar vision. That is one of the most important traits an RB needs to have for the run game to be consistently successful. A lot of blame can be placed on the OL last year, but I think a larger share of the blame should go to the lack of vision from those two. That’s what had me most excited about Guice, tbh. His vision, and ability to set up next level blocks, is special. 

Agree with this.  Vision helps reduce the negative runs and add a couple or few yards (sometimes more) to the short runs.  I’d add that good burst and speed (which Guice has/had over Kelley/Perine) gives you more of the longer runs.  This ups the ypc, of course, but I’d guess it also means more chances at flipping field position as well as more chances at FGs and TDs.  

[zoony]

Perine is awful at professional football.  Just awful

 

That said, i dont really get the hate that Kelly gets around here.  He was injured almost all of last season.  2016 was a solid year, especially for a rookie.  Why not think he can get even better?  Especially considering he shows up to camp in the shape of his life and clearly has more burst.

 

 

1 hour ago, beachboy757 said:

When we all first got the news about Guice I was embarrassed by the amount of fans taking out their anger, lashing out, and trashing R Kelley. He just does not deserve that.

 

Most redskins fans are an embarassment.  This is the same fanbase that in 2015 still was convinced that the coaches had it out for rg3

[Bigmuss1]

Guice wasn’t going to average anywhere near 4 YPC behind the Offensive Line we put on the field last year.  (Obviously due to injury).  It was clearly a major injury problem last year, it is not an excuse, but it’s fact.  Todd Gurley wouldn’t of done **** with that line blocking for him.  I certainly was/am excited for Guice at some point, but it is what it is, Kelly/Perine/Thompson are our guys, gotta roll with them!  I’m not saying Guice isn’t going to be great/good, but give me an example of an NFL run where he showed exceptional vision?  How are we granting him all of these accolades when in reality he hasn’t played one down of regular season football?  His big run came off of a holding penalty.....I guess I’m just trying to say, let’s see what our healthy backs can do before we start complaining about them.  

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, zoony said:

Perine is awful at professional football.  Just awful

 

That said, i dont really get the hate that Kelly gets around here.  He was injured almost all of last season.  2016 was a solid year, especially for a rookie.  Why not think he can get even better?  Especially considering he shows up to camp in the shape of his life and clearly has more burst.

 

 

 

Couldn't you say almost the exact same thing about Perine in 2017?

 

 

Kelley

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Rush	Yds	TD	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	Lng	R/G
2016	24	WAS	RB	32	15	9	168	704	6	66	4.2	46.9	11.2	18	12	82	6.8	1	22	0.8

 

 

Perine

Year	Age	Tm	Pos	No.	G	GS	Rush	Yds	TD	Lng	Y/A	Y/G	A/G	Tgt	Rec	Yds	Y/R	TD	Lng	R/G
2017	22	WAS	RB	32	16	8	175	603	1	30	3.4	37.7	10.9	24	22	182	8.3	1	25	1.4

 

 

Rushing yards and average are lower, but we've spent 2 pages of this thread going back and forth about why 2016 was so bad... Kelley got the nod on the ground but Perine balanced it in the passing game.  Yards from scrimmage are 1 yard apart.   

[skins4eva]

27 minutes ago, zoony said:

Perine is awful at professional football.  Just awful

 

That said, i dont really get the hate that Kelly gets around here.  He was injured almost all of last season.  2016 was a solid year, especially for a rookie.  Why not think he can get even better?  Especially considering he shows up to camp in the shape of his life and clearly has more burst.

 

 

 

Agreed.  Perine put the ball on the turf at critical times last season.  Clearly, he has a fumbling issue that our coaches haven't been able to fix.  If given the chance, he will do the same thing this year.

 

[zoony]

8 minutes ago, skins4eva said:

 

Agreed.  Perine put the ball on the turf at critical times last season.  Clearly, he has a fumbling issue that our coaches haven't been able to fix.  If given the chance, he will do the same thing this year.

 

 

Even worse is his complete lack of running ability.  Never seen a dude run straight into contact (and lose) as consistently

29 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Couldn't you say almost the exact same thing about Perine in 2017?

 

29 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

Rushing yards and average are lower,

 

You just answered your own question.

 

Im not interested in pass catching.  We have chris thompson.  Also your stats are garbage with CT out half the year and us signing guys off the street last year.  Perine got 100 percent of the offensive workload.  He sucks

 

Get your head out of the stats sheet and actually watch the games.

[skins4eva]

3 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

Even worse is his complete lack of running ability.  Never seen a dude run straight into contact (and lose) as consistently

 

Yeah, there's also that...

[OVCChairman]

21 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

Even worse is his complete lack of running ability.  Never seen a dude run straight into contact (and lose) as consistently

 

 

You just answered your own question.

 

Im not interested in pass catching.  We have chris thompson.  Also your stats are garbage with CT out half the year and us signing guys off the street last year.  Perine got 100 percent of the offensive workload.  He sucks

 

Get your head out of the stats sheet and actually watch the games.

 

 

I do watch the games, but please, tell me how to draw my own opinions even further.  I have my opinion you have yours, I was just trying to have a dialogue on a message board with other fans regarding the team we root for, wasn't attacking your opinion.  

 

As far as what I saw when watching the games, I thought he looked decent in the preseason game vs NE.  I never said he was a game breaker.  In fact I've never even said I like him more than I like Kelley.  I've always just tried to say that last year we were, as you said, running behind a make-shift line where we were.. how did you put it... 'signing guys off the street.'  That maybe this year he should be afforded the chance to run with a starting O-line before we draw the conclusion that he's 'awful at professional football.' 

 

What I saw last year was a rookie RB where the game was moving fast for him, behind an inferior offensive line.  I saw flashes in a few games during the 2nd half of the year, that things had started to slow down for him, and he improved.  If you admit that my stats are garbage because we were signing guys off the street, you make my point.  He's running behind a make shift O-line.  Vision or not, if the holes aren't there, they aren't there.  

[zoony]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Please don't mistake being upset at the thought of starting the season with Rob Kelley as the starting running back as taking a dump on him. I love everything that I know about Rob Kelley the person.  Dude is a grinder that has done everything that's been asked of him plus some in an effort to get better.  Add to that the nice stories of him as a person.

 

All that still doesn't mean that I think he can improve that much over one offseason that he's going to change my mind about him as a runner.

[TheShredder]

In the next 3 Pre-Season games we'll be seeing a lot of the running game.  They've got to figure out what the pecking order will be.  Certainly don't have this important piece to the puzzle figured out properly.  What would you like to see from Fit Rob and Perine?  

Fit Rob - I'll look to see if he's being decisive, lowering his pads, getting downhill.  

Perine - I'll watch how he protects the ball and if he can make anyone miss.  

 

 

[Sandy Monk]

2 hours ago, Bigmuss1 said:

Guice wasn’t going to average anywhere near 4 YPC behind the Offensive Line we put on the field last year.  (Obviously due to injury).  It was clearly a major injury problem last year, it is not an excuse, but it’s fact.  Todd Gurley wouldn’t of done **** with that line blocking for him.  I certainly was/am excited for Guice at some point, but it is what it is, Kelly/Perine/Thompson are our guys, gotta roll with them!  I’m not saying Guice isn’t going to be great/good, but give me an example of an NFL run where he showed exceptional vision?  How are we granting him all of these accolades when in reality he hasn’t played one down of regular season football?  His big run came off of a holding penalty.....I guess I’m just trying to say, let’s see what our healthy backs can do before we start complaining about them.  

 

Look, I just spoke up for Kelley, and don't think Perine to be a bad player either. Guice though, is clearly special, and I say this as someone who has not missed a snap of his in college. What he can do better than the others is regularly break tackles, which of course leads to runs like we saw on that play where he was injured. He also runs like he's trying to catch the person that just stole momma's purse. He's going to be special, if he can stay healthy. 

 

Aside from this, CT and the others can do plenty well enough to keep defenses honest, but 2 things must happen. The health and continuity of the blockers up front has to exist, and Jay has to be a little more balanced with the calls. 

[KDawg]

@TD_washingtonredskins

 

yeah, I still think it’s a logjam. Not necessarily in the sense that it’s loaded, but more in the sense that we have a lot of similar players. 

 

I could see a scenario where Perine becomes the every down workhorse, Thompson the flash back, Bibbs Thompson’s backup and Marshall as the all around back up.

 

Marshall seems to have some ability to run inside, slightly larger frame, pass protect, run outside and catch passes. He may be the overall jack of all trades other than Thompson, and I think we may have underestimated his inside run ability.

 

I don’t think it plays out that way, but for this team I think those four should be our backs and Kelley should be the odd man out. 

 

I hope he catches on somewhere though. Good player, but not enough bang for the Skins buck in the system they run. 

 

Inside runner depth chart:

 

Perine, Marshall, Thompson (he’s better than Marshall, but I’d rather he not take a consistent beating), Bibbs

 

scat back depth:

 

Thompson, Bibbs, Marshall

 

Overall depth:

 

Thompson, Perine, Marshall, Bibbs

[Vanguard]

15 hours ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Do you think it’s possible that (gasp) Gruden thinks Rob Kelley (and most of our other RBs) suck, he just knows it’s not professional to say “so and so sucks/blows” in a press conference? Just cause he says nice things about a RB doesn’t mean it’s what he ACTUALLY thinks. I think most people don’t seem to realize that  

 

It's the fact that Rob gets significant playing time that bothers me.  Other RB's need to get his snaps.  Rob doesn't get the results we need.

[Morneblade]

3 hours ago, Bigmuss1 said:

Guice wasn’t going to average anywhere near 4 YPC behind the Offensive Line we put on the field last year.  (Obviously due to injury).  It was clearly a major injury problem last year, it is not an excuse, but it’s fact.  Todd Gurley wouldn’t of done **** with that line blocking for him.  I certainly was/am excited for Guice at some point, but it is what it is, Kelly/Perine/Thompson are our guys, gotta roll with them!  I’m not saying Guice isn’t going to be great/good, but give me an example of an NFL run where he showed exceptional vision?  How are we granting him all of these accolades when in reality he hasn’t played one down of regular season football?  His big run came off of a holding penalty.....I guess I’m just trying to say, let’s see what our healthy backs can do before we start complaining about them.  

 

We have. They are nothing to write home about.

 

I could say a lot of things about Guice, how he played with a not so great OL himself, played hurt, had the box stacked against him more often than not and STILL averaged 6.5ypc for his carreer. Ok.....maybe I will add a little about Guice. He is everything the rest of our RB's are not. Dangerous.

 

What we have, is basically depth at RB. Outside of Chris Thompson, who won't be 100% until November (keep that in mind), our RB's are guys that might be the 2nd or 3rd RB on a team that runs the ball not particularly well. Kelly is a good story. Perine is a big guy that has weight lifting strength, but not football strength. Marshall and Bibbs are guys you find all over the NFL  way down on the depth chart. We cheer for them because they are ours. But, people are STILL bent over loosing Mack Brown.Who is buried on the depth chart with the Vikes. What we have is simply not very good.

[KDawg]

And for the record...

 

having actually watched the games, as suggested above, I don’t understand how anyone thinks Perine is “awful at pro football”.

 

I also don’t think Rob Kelley is awful at pro ball, for what it’s worth.

[Morneblade]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

And for the record...

 

having actually watched the games, as suggested above, I don’t understand how anyone thinks Perine is “awful at pro football”.

 

I also don’t think Rob Kelley is awful at pro ball, for what it’s worth.

 

As we all know, Zoony liked the sauce. And maybe it's a little harsh. But, I think the big issue is Perine is how easy he goes down. He's not fast, and he's not very quick, but he's 5'11, 233 and and built like a tank. He doesn't run like one though. And, that's a problem.

 

I like Kelly, mostly for his story. But neither of these guys have done much to show they can be solid NFL running backs.