Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[Captain Wiggles]

7 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

 

Actually, 60 mil out of 200 mil registered voters went for Trump.

 

So it is about 30%. 

 

 

Lol technically you're correct.  The best kind of correct. 

 

 

Still of those that actually voted. 47% voted for the Trump. 

Edited July 9, 2018 by clietas

[Kilmer17]

Just now, Bang said:

OK, you're right.  Let me breathe and begin again, then.

 

I am not so sure they won't stick to party either.

If half the country did not vote, then it stands to reason many of them would be GOP voters,, so I assume it may be possible to entice them.

I would also assume there are a percentage who have fallen away as Trump has barreled forward.

 

I think it wouldn't be smart of the left to go full left and try to put up severely socialist candidates. They'd definitely do better at going for a moderate.. and the overall politics of the party is more moderate.

But the question for me remains.. will these voters listen to facts, or propaganda? MANY right leaning voters won't vote for a democrat if their lives depended on it, especially those who still ID as Republicans. Moderates are few and far between over there in Rightville.

If a good chunk of conservative voters stayed away or voted in the third party trap because they couldn't deal with Hillary..  as i said above.. since so much of the smoke around her has turned out to be nothing but a big gigantic taxpayer funded smear campaign..  will they use that knowledge of being swayed once into not letting it happen again?

I am not optimistic.

 

I feel like we are waltzing as the fuse burns. 

 

~Bang

 

I dont buy the "Clinton is the victim" line, but but but IF that was true, it only happened because of decades of attacks right?  Hickenlooper can sway enough voters in key states to make the difference.

 

 

[tshile]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

I truly hope that a swath of reliably Republican/Independent voters can briefly set aside their issues with Democrats/liberals the next two elections.  

 

They're not going to. Not anymore than did last time. In fact, by the time the election comes around, I wouldn't be surprised of Trump picks up support from that side of the aisle so long as he doesn't start another war, the economy keeps on track, he nominates a pro-life person to SCOTUS and gets through, and the Mueller investigation yields nothing on him (and honestly if it's still going on when the campaigns start, that might look bad for the anti-trump people...)

 

Trump, warts and all, is mostly pushing their agenda. They're not going to vote for someone else to push an agenda that is counter to theirs, unless something really bad happens - another war, economy collapse, or this Mueller investigation goes somewhere.

 

The dems are going to have to nominate a stellar candidate (and not one they think is stellar, like Clinton, but one that actually is stellar) and/or they're going to have to get their people to actually show up and vote.

 

[grego]

What a bizarre day. Between choosing to make up our own definitions of words and the disconnect when it comes to the wisdom of trying to appeal to voters who haven't traditionally voted for democrats but don't like Trump. 

 

I need a drink. 

[Bang]

 

9 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

I dont buy the "Clinton is the victim" line, but but but IF that was true, it only happened because of decades of attacks right?  Hickenlooper can sway enough voters in key states to make the difference.

 

 

As ridiculous and shallow as this may sound,, "hickenlooper" isn't a name to inspire confidence. I think that matters. 

I'd say as far as Clinton is the victim..   they threw every smear that could be thrown. Hearings, inquisitions, even a pizza place child sex ring, and none of it is true.

None of it.

What else do you call someone who is the target of a massive fraud?

That''s all it was. if there had been anything,, even a shred..  they'd have charged her. They spent the entire convention frothing about locking her up. It's obvious propaganda. Clear as day. I don't think it would take decades. I think what has taken decades is softening up the American right to be so receptive to propaganda and suggestion. The fact she's been around for decades and is a pretty obvious prediction to one day run for president, they have plenty of time to get to work. But i don't think it would take long for anyone else.

They bought into a child sex ring in the basement of a building that has no basement. (One guy went there with a gun to save the kids. This stuff is dangerous. And people still buy it. They are hunting down a non-existent child sex ring in Arizona at the moment that supposedly exists right beside a highway where there is nothing but tumbleweeds.)

And yet they still buy it. You still buy it.

 

As i said before, i think they want to be told why they can't vote for a Democrat to save them from having to do it.

"I don't like Trump, but Hannity said that Candidate X is a Martian, so..."

Don't underestimate how pervasive this has been.

 

~Bang

Edited July 9, 2018 by Bang

[visionary]

Just now, tshile said:

 

They're not going to. Not anymore than did last time. In fact, by the time the election comes around, I wouldn't be surprised of Trump picks up support from that side of the aisle so long as he doesn't start another war, the economy keeps on track, he nominates a pro-life person to SCOTUS and gets through, and the Mueller investigation yields nothing on him (and honestly if it's still going on when the campaigns start, that might look bad for the anti-trump people...)

 

Trump, warts and all, is mostly pushing their agenda. They're not going to vote for someone else to push an agenda that is counter to theirs, unless something really bad happens - another war, economy collapse, or this Mueller investigation goes somewhere.

 

The dems are going to have to nominate a stellar candidate (and not one they think is stellar, like Clinton, but one that actually is stellar) and/or they're going to have to get their people to actually show up and vote.

 

I'm not sure anyone thought Hillary was a stellar candidate in 2016...though many thought she would have made a good president and was very experienced and had good plans for the issues. (especially in comparison)

[Kilmer17]

1 minute ago, Bang said:

As ridiculous as this may sound,, "hickenlooper" isn't a name to inspire confidence. I think that matters. 

I'd say as far as Clinton is the victim..   they threw every smear that could be thrown. Hearings, inquisitions, even a pizza place child sex ring, and none of it is true.

None of it.

What else do you call someone who is the target of a massive fraud?

That''s all it was. if there had been anything,, even a shred..  they'd have charged her. They spent the entire convention frothing about locking her up. It's obvious propaganda. Clear as day.

And yet they still buy it. You still buy it.

 

~Bang

None of it is true?  Or none of it turned out to be illegal or able to be prosecuted?

[Chachie]

28 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

None of it is true?  Or none of it turned out to be illegal or able to be prosecuted?

 

This is where I suspect the entire Russian case will end up, at least where Donald Trump specifically is concerned.

In my current understanding it's all true and it's all despicable. It's just not really "illegal" or "prosecutable." Most of the americans that helped him will burn but he'll skate by.

[Going Commando]

41 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

This is not the year people on the left should nominate a for-real centrist.  The BEST outcome is a moderate liberal, which today means what far-left progressive meant 10 years ago.  

 

The American Right is radicalized and extreme and that includes the fence pigeons who have enough shame to pretend like they don't support the GoP.  There is no compromise to be had with them.  They just have to be beaten.

[StillUnknown]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

The American Right is radicalized and extreme and that includes the fence pigeons who have enough shame to pretend like they don't support the GoP.  There is no compromise to be had with them.  They just have to be beaten.

 

this seems so simple, yet people still miss it

 

I am not compromising with people who  view my life or the lives of people who look like me, to be less than their own. **** them

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

this seems so simple, yet people still miss it

 

I am not compromising with people who  view my life or the lives of people who look like me, to be less than their own. **** them

 

Dodging not missing. 

[Nerm]

I don't have many answers about what democrats need to do to win power back.  But, I will say that comparing red state voters to Nazis is not a direction that I would go.

 

If I'm a voter considering switching parties because of Trump's behavior, I don't think it is very appealing to vote for people arguing that me or my neighbors are just like Nazis and need to be treated accordingly.  In my opinion, hostility directed at conservatives will make moderates more supportive of them.

[PF Chang]

No Democrat will be palatable to Republican voters. Kerry had three Purple Hearts and was smeared as a coward who lied about his military service. It doesn't matter that it was a lie because it never matters to Republicans. 

 

I think we tend to vote against the other party more than we vote for our own. And it's about the candidate's supporters, not the candidate himself (until the objectively despicable Trump changed the game). I had nothing against Mitt Romney personally but voted against the wealthy. 

 

People do have particular hatred for Hillary as well, but I think Trump supporters are happy to tell you that they really just ****ing hate leftists. Anti-PC was huge for Trump. 

[Bang]

1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

None of it is true?  Or none of it turned out to be illegal or able to be prosecuted?

The law is the law.

If she broke it, there isn't any way around it. if it isn't illegal, then what is the issue?

(there isn't one, except to raise doubt. The definition of a 'smear'.)

 

Playing with grey and acting like it means anything black or white only reinforces my point.

In the end, for much of the right, it does not matter. Accusations are enough and it doesn't matter how wild they are/were..  they all got legs.

 

These people aren't changing. And they look for every reason to stay that way. 

 

~Bang

[StillUnknown]

9 minutes ago, Nerm said:

If I'm a voter considering switching parties because of Trump's behavior, I don't think it is very appealing to vote for people arguing that me or my neighbors are just like Nazis and need to be treated accordingly.  In my opinion, hostility directed at conservatives will make moderates more supportive of them.

 

I understand what you're getting at, but I can't get with "i don't like trump's behaviors , but I'm going to stick with it because the other side is saying mean things" logic

[Bang]

16 minutes ago, Nerm said:

I don't have many answers about what democrats need to do to win power back.  But, I will say that comparing red state voters to Nazis is not a direction that I would go.

 

If I'm a voter considering switching parties because of Trump's behavior, I don't think it is very appealing to vote for people arguing that me or my neighbors are just like Nazis and need to be treated accordingly.  In my opinion, hostility directed at conservatives will make moderates more supportive of them.

So, right or wrong doesn't matter. just that they called names?

"This Trump guy is really bad and is wrecking all of our alliances and crapping all over the constitution and is filling his cabinet with thieves and shysters who may have an actual big negative effect on me and my family,,   but those people called Bob a Nazi, so F them.. i'm voting Thief again"

 

My point above stands firm. In a thread devoted to 'trying to understand trumpsters'.. maybe try to understand why these people are so upset instead of crying about them being upset.

 

~Bang

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by Bang

[nonniey]

33 minutes ago, Nerm said:

I don't have many answers about what democrats need to do to win power back.  But, I will say that comparing red state voters to Nazis is not a direction that I would go.

 

If I'm a voter considering switching parties because of Trump's behavior, I don't think it is very appealing to vote for people arguing that me or my neighbors are just like Nazis and need to be treated accordingly.  In my opinion, hostility directed at conservatives will make moderates more supportive of them.

They aren't listening. You can tell them they are cutting their own throats all you want but it probably will take Trump being reelected before they realize it (and probably not even then).

[nonniey]

39 minutes ago, StillUnknown said:

 

I understand what you're getting at, but I can't get with "i don't like trump's behaviors , but I'm going to stick with it because the other side is saying mean things " logic

You don't get that screaming, shouting, insulting and in some cases physically attacking the people you want to convince to vote for your side is an ineffective tactic? Or is ineffective at convincing those observing that tactic even if they aren't the target?

Edited July 9, 2018 by nonniey

[NoCalMike]

Trump voters believe Trump "fixed the economy" because that is what they want to believe.  A lot of them actual believe that the economy was in shambles before he took office.  Any studies, statistics, numbers, findings to the contrary they label fake news, despite it all coming from the same agencies that are providing the numbers currently. 

 

I suppose if you are someone who thinks Obama "destroyed America" then yeah, voting for Hilary over Trump was a non-starter, however if you are someone who think Obama had his faults but overall kept the country running in a smooth and respectable manner and took some bold steps to help the recovery from the recession he inherited, coupled with the fact that Hillary's politics for the most part are very similar, then yes I can say it was a reasonable thing to ask the fence-sitters to go with Hillary over Trump despite some initial hesitation for the good of the country.

 

If the 2020 election comes down to the economy (assuming nothing catastrophic in other areas has happened) then unfortunately I think Trump is getting re-elected. It takes awhile for a sitting President's policies to really take hold and shift things.  There may be small rumbles between now and 2020, but for the most part I think I think the economy is going to hold based on how it has been trending for awhile now.  Once those trends level off we could be a year or so into a 2nd Trump term where once again it will be too late besides maybe a major shake up in the House/Senate in 2022??   It is very reminiscent of Bush 43, he had the war machine to hide his failing economy though, for Trump it is more riding the coattails of the previous administrations work, while bamboozling people into thinking he saved a ship that wasn't sinking in the first place.  

Edited July 9, 2018 by NoCalMike

[The Evil Genius]

Where we are these days...no one cares when POTUS makes rape jokes or belittles minorities. But good lord almighty if the liberal snowflakes correctly label MAGAts as racist ****tards.

[Captain Wiggles]

6 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Where we are these days...no one cares when POTUS makes rape jokes or belittles minorities. But good lord almighty if the liberal snowflakes correctly label MAGAts as racist ****tards.

 

Trump is their savior. He gets a free pass on EVERYTHING. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Have we learned nothing from Trump?  Being rich does not mean you are qualified for the top job.  If you want to go from business to politics, start at mayor or governor and prove you can do it.  Not ****ing President of the United States.  

 

Mark Cuban is a very different person than Donald Trump.

Many, many, many of your favorite politicians are/were “rich”.

 

 

Again, I know it sounds trite.

[PeterMP]

35 minutes ago, nonniey said:

You don't get that screaming, shouting, insulting and in some cases physically attacking the people you want to convince to vote for your side is an ineffective tactic? Or is ineffective at convincing those observing that tactic even if they aren't the target?

 

Obviously, none of us can control other people.  I don't see anybody here advocating physical attacks, and I do see that sort of behavior from the other side too.

Wouldn't that at least cancel out?

 

In terms of some of the publicly shaming people (yelling at them), do you think there is an upside there in terms of bringing attention to things that are being done?  It isn't like the American electorate is over informed.  Does the news generated from some of the negative public attention help educate the American voter?

 

The FL AG gets heckled at the opening of the new Mr. Rogers movie.  It isn't something that I like (or think that Mr. Rogers would have done), but do you think some people see it and then look to see why she was heckled?

Edited July 9, 2018 by PeterMP

[PleaseBlitz]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Mark Cuban is a very different person than Donald Trump.

Many, many, many of your favorite politicians are/were “rich”.

 

 

Again, I know it sounds trite.

 

How many of my favorite rich politicians were President of the United States as their first elected job?

[PeterMP]

38 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Where we are these days...no one cares when POTUS makes rape jokes or belittles minorities. But good lord almighty if the liberal snowflakes correctly label MAGAts as racist ****tards.

 

It seems to me that a lot of people are looking for excuses to rationalize their support of Trump (or their support of his supporters).

 

It isn't mine/their fault.  It is yours.

Edited July 9, 2018 by PeterMP