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Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

Bozo the kKklown

By Bozo the kKklown
in The Tailgate

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Nerm

Nerm

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, tshile said:

It's a meme about the middle thinking some genocide is ok for the sake of compromise, when the reality the fact that the left thinks the position of the middle is "some genocide is ok for the sake of compromise" is why the middle doesn't like the left

 

they're so stuck on their righteousness they forget to stay in reality.

 

anyone who doesn't agree with them is ultimately evil.

 

the irony is that in creating the meme about the middle hating the left, the creator did what the left does that people actually hate and is completely unaware of it.

 

they're really not all that different than the trumpers once they get worked up.

 

I get it now.  I see what you are saying about the irony part, I misunderstood the point you were making initially.  

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TheGreatBuzz

TheGreatBuzz

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, mcsluggo said:

 

comparing trump and his supporters to 1933 germany may not be helpful... but it is certainly reasonable.   

I agree.  But when you say Nazi, people don't think 1933 Germany that was building up to what we know now.  They think 1942 (I think?) Germany when people started finding the concentration camps, etc.  The GOP is still in the early 30's phase.  Calling them the 40's phase now seems wrong to the uneducated (read 80% of society).  

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LD0506

LD0506

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 7/11/2018 at 3:44 PM, tshile said:

It's a meme about the middle thinking some genocide is ok for the sake of compromise, when the reality the fact that the left thinks the position of the middle is "some genocide is ok for the sake of compromise" is why the middle doesn't like the left

 

they're so stuck on their righteousness they forget to stay in reality.

 

anyone who doesn't agree with them is ultimately evil.

 

the irony is that in creating the meme about the middle hating the left, the creator did what the left does that people actually hate and is completely unaware of it.

 

they're really not all that different than the trumpers once they get worked up.

 

Ohhhhh, I shouldn't, I really shouldn't, I KNOW I shouldn't but........................

 

<sigh>

 

Here we go again (or still), parsing and deconstructing and rearranging a narrative to support something that ignores what it began as. Just because they haven't actually fired up the ovens (yet) doesn't mean they haven't thought of that. I'm sure it would be a damned effective "conversion therapy" technique if it weren't for the optics. If you look at the big picture, that's the course we're on, we ain't there yet but we are sure as hell headed that direction. If it's too terrible to admit, fine, I can accept flinching in the face of horror but that won't change the objective reality on iota.

 

Sooooo, let's change it up.

 

Instead of "genocide" getting anyones panties in a bunch, replace it with "children in cages" or "infants held hostage" and it still rolls right out the same way.

 

Replace it with "destroy the environment for a quick buck" and it works too.

 

"Run the economy off a cliff for fun and profit"? Yup, still flows.....

 

Yadda yadda yadda, there is a large % in the middle that are squeamish about what's happening but really can't find the intestinal fortitude to actually do anything, so they dissemble and prevaricate and teeter on an increasingly narrow fence, pointing fingers at both sides when anyone dares to point out that their inability or unwillingness to act feeds the flames. King sitting in a Birmingham jail articulated it far better than I ever could, the willingness to silently accept injustice is in itself tacit support for injustice.

 

The fine print legalese is irrelevant, if you believe in the essential principles this country was supposed to stand for, you're troubled (or worse) at what is happening and as a citizen and (dare I say it?) a patriot, you are morally obliged to act (in whatever fashion appropriate). If you find it all unseemly and rude but really don't want to get involved because, well, my job/ my life/ GoT/ baseball season/ what will my friends think?/ whatever, then you're making excuses.

 

I have more respect for the right, in all their magnificent gluttony, for at least openly declaring themselves. I have very little for anyone pulling the shades and just changing the channel.

Edited by LD0506
Fat fingers- dammit!
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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

If you look at the big picture, that's the course we're on, we ain't there yet but we are sure as hell headed that direction.

 

No, it's not the course we're on, and no we're not headed that direction.

 

Which isn't really the point, because given what is actually going on, given the course we are actually on, I can forgive anyone for feeling that way. Especially someone who is a member of one of the many minority groups that has reasonable griefs right now (Latinos in regards to immigration, blacks in regards to the police and their general place in the economy, and Muslims in regard to pretty much anything right now.)

 

Where The Left goes to ****, winds up being mocked by the rest of us who still have a grip on reality, and reminds us that no matter how well their intentions may be they're still crazy extremists, is when they look at the middle and accuse them of supporting this extremist view they have simply because they're unwilling to hop on the crazy train and go for the ride.

 

Ride the crazy train. It's fine, I get it. You're all worked up. Given the way the right has refused to even acknowledge why many of you are upset, and worse they way they seem to be doubling down in some regards, I understand and excuse it.

 

When you accuse me and others of being on the GOP's side, of being OK with "a little genocide", of supporting the GOP's bad policies right now, just because we don't want to ride on your crazy train.... get lost. I'm not going to willingly give up my grip on reality just because you lost yours and can't handle it.

 

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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
54 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

No, it's not the course we're on, and no we're not headed that direction.

 

 

Do you want to lay out how you know that's not the course we are on?

 

What course are we on?

 

(I don't think we are even to the point of 1933 Nazis.  We're close to pre-Great Depression Germany and Nazis.  But considering we've gotten here with a pretty good economy (even before the election the economy had been doing better and was at least "good") if there is a Great Depression like economic down turn in the next year, are you really comfortable saying that isn't the course we are on?

 

Because I'm certainly not, and I'm not at all sure we aren't headed for another massive economic slow down.)

Edited by PeterMP
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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, PeterMP said:

But considering we've gotten here with a pretty good economy

 

 

I dont think this is correct. I think what got us here started we’ll before the 2916 campaigns kicked off. I think it includes the crisis that started around 2007. And I think that while our economy and country as a whole has recovered back to good/better times, I think there’s a large number of people that have not and will not ever gain back what they truly lost during those periods. 

 

Edited by tshile
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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

 

I dont think this is correct. I think what got us here started we’ll before the 2916 campaigns kicked off. I think it includes the crisis that started around 2007. And I think that while our economy and country as a whole has recovered back to good/better times, I think there’s a large number of people that have not and will not ever gain back what they truly lost during those periods. 

 

 

That's absolutely true.  I know more than person that lost their job during the financial crisis had to eat up savings and now is behind.  I also know people that graduated during those years that then got shunted in less than ideal careers and probably will never recover the earnings they lost as compared to people that graduated this year (in some thing like the science, after doing something like teaching (at a private school) it is very hard to make the jump back into an (industrial) research position.  I know people that graduated in 2008 that would have been excellent candidates for industrial research jobs that ended up taking much lesser jobs because that's all they got.)

 

That happens in every economic down turn.  I started grad school shortly before the 1990s economic boom.  While I was in graduate school, graduate student stipends rose by 2X what they were from when I started (to compete with increased salaries in the private sector during the boom).  First year students starting 4 years after me were making twice what I made my first year.  That's an economic loss I'm never going to recover (and then things have pretty much frozen since then in terms of graduate and post-doc pay).


But none of that changes the facts that in Nov. 2016 the fundamentals of the economy compared to historical norms were reasonable and even good.

 

And you didn't answer the question.

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted (edited)
51 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

And you didn't answer the question.

 

I wasn’t trying to. I don’t have any interest in them or where I see them going. Or maybe more appropriately - I don’t see the point. You’re not going to value my answers and you’re going to tell me things I already know about as reasons why I should think differently. 

 

we see this one differently. 

Edited by tshile
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PeterMP

PeterMP

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, tshile said:

 

I wasn’t trying to. I don’t have any interest in them or where I see them going. Or maybe more appropriately - I don’t see the point. You’re not going to value my answers and you’re going to tell me things I already know about as reasons why I should think differently. 

 

we see this one differently. 

 

You just seem to state so conclusively that we are not on a course that can lead to a Nazi Germany-like situation.  I was wondering why you though that.

 

Yes, I might come back and explain why I think you are wrong, but when you've bashed somebody else for saying that we are (and I've read a few things from legit historians that have at least made comparisons), it seems like the least you can do is explain your reasoning for disagreeing.

 

(note, to me saying we are on that course doesn't mean absolutely we are going to end up there.  We can always change course.  I'm not sure we are and part of that will be how the economic situation develops over the next few years, which IMO is unknowable.)

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NoCalMike

NoCalMike

Posted
Posted

This is true of a lot of the modern recoveries.  The economy will trend down and then trend back up, but how often to people really recoup what they lost when the economy goes in the tank?   Also, when the economy recovers how many people go back to jobs paying as well as they were before the downturn?

 

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