goskins10 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 43 minutes ago, Gibbit said: explain how the women are treated goskins10 You want to be more specific? I am sure you don't but I will ask anyway. Are you talking about in general in life? About this specific issue? At some specific function I am not aware of? You just left a very vague questions - kind of like more of your posts on this - just sort of flailing about in an effort to defend the indefensible. I will answer is the only way that is pertinent to this thread - how they were alleged to be treated on this trip. The accusations have been spelled out numerous times. So if yo do not know them by now then it's because you do not want to know them. And I said "if they are true" more than once. So your question really makes no sense. Please be more specific. 34 minutes ago, Gibbit said: give me some facts that point to Snyder. All ive posted is about cheerleaders, their disputing claims and their director. You guys posting about Snyder or Allen are using conspiracy logic...because there is nothing else at the moment. Show me something real He owns the team so everything that happens is his responsibility. If he is just finding out about this - something I actually believe is possible - although unlikely, and does a proper investigation and takes action if it's found to be true - then that's all that can be asked. The problem is he has a history of not doing the right thing. But if he does here I will be one of the first to give him credit. But just to be clear - yet again - this has nothing to do with Dan other than he owns the team. This has to do with a major problem in the organization., If they find it and fix it, awesome! But if they turn a blind eye, then I plan to call them out on it. And not not sure how holding the guy who owns the team responsible is conspiracy logic. He owns this. He needs to find out if it's true, and right away. If it is, he needs to take the appropriate actions - and I hope it's firing anyone involved. If it's not true, present the facts. If the cheerleaders that say nothing happened are right, let it be found through a complete investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 11 hours ago, ExoDus84 said: What charges? Felony making women uncomfortable (MWU)? If the piece is correct, it paints the execs that were there as being skeevy and creepy, but the article does mention there was no sex involved. I fail to see what kind of charges could be brought up for this. It depends on what is actually in the contract and the expectations before going to Costa Rica. It sounds like they didn't want to do the escort thing, we shouldn't be doing that with out cheerleaders even if they knew. Snyder didn't know it was this bad, otherwise he'd now who to fire to get ahead of the PR nightmare, Allen, too. I'm leaning towards no charges, still not enough fscts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 nice to see we still have a few cavemen running around accessing the internet with reckless abandon... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBlueIndian Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 It is time for DS to step aside and do what is best for this organization, fan base, city and league. In his tenure as owner he has brought nothing but shame, humiliation and embarrassment. This latest fiasco disgusts me as do those who are posting that these women had a choice in this. Visit a foreign country and have someone take your passport, did I read that correctly ? That is akin to kidnapping. At least TS was doing something positive in their time here with the breast cancer awareness stuff. I am sure DS has done some good in the community as well but it is time to cash out and GO AWAY ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c slag Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 8 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said: we may very well be looking at the end of the Snyder regime of dysfunction, chaos and losing. The Lerner family might be a nice replacement. I would guess that possibility Ted Leonsis might make a bid to own the team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 11 hours ago, XtremeFan55 said: Have to remember that neither Donald Sterling nor Jerry Richardson will be going to jail. It is not a crime....but more of a fireable offense in the workplace. The NFL is a partnership of 32 owner groups who work together to protect the image of the league. They all share and benefit in the financial rewards but must adhere to a code of conduct on how they manage their franchise. If the league feels that this is a big enough problem that will affect the image then they will vote to have the ownership group removed to protect the other ownership groups if necessary. Hence...why Richardson is being forced to sell. They considered his conduct detrimental to the league...therefore he has to go to : : : The Lerner family might be a nice replacement. Richardon wasn’t forced to sell the team by the league/owners. He stepped down on his own and put them up for sale after the allegations dropped. He is still the owner as we speak. He should be voted out,imo because of the disgusting, horrible things he did. But just wanted to point out the facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skins island connection Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 What a nightmare. Society has deteriorated and life on this blue planet is nothing close to resembling the way it was. I do not know what the real 'truth' is, nor does anyone on this thread; unless anyone was with the cheerleaders in CR, its all speculations and accusations. The fact that it took 4-5 years for this to come out raises an eyebrow, and now there are counter-claims that it didn't go down that way. It could be a case of uber-sensationalism, or second-guessing 5 years later, a Stormy Daniels spin-off, or it could actually be worse than reported. No one knows but the cheerleaders who were there. Maybe it's me, but this doesn't seem legit; any form of sexual harassment is absolutely wrong, but the definition of sexual harassment is constantly changing along with the guidelines and time lines; for many women, being whistled at by construction workers makes them feel like they are attractive, but to some others, they feel like they are being assaulted. To be honest, in a way it sounds like either an attention issue or a big payday issue. Had these cheerleaders came out the day after it happened, the week, hell even a month or 6 months afterwards, it would have been a much more incriminating issue, but 5 years later IMO doesn't make sense to me, it has the appearance of a headline story which mirrors the piggy-back stories coming out about most every person in this country right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COWBOY-KILLA- Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 And here I thought we were gonna cruise into the post draft off season. Oops. Unfortunately, I’m not terribly shocked at any of it. Unfettered access because of your $/power + an organization (in this case) after that money + no one to watch out = an utter and total **** show. Also see politics, Wall Street, political economy, child labor, workers rights, the clothes we buy, the food we eat and too many others to list. Woman have been catching the short end of that game since the dawn of time. It wasn’t right then, it isn’t right now. Humans caught in the crossfire. Our response as an organization could only be considered poor and substandard. SMH. No Bueno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I’m just browsing for cheerleader pics.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 minutes ago, skins island connection said: What a nightmare. Society has deteriorated and life on this blue planet is nothing close to resembling the way it was. I do not know what the real 'truth' is, nor does anyone on this thread; unless anyone was with the cheerleaders in CR, its all speculations and accusations. The fact that it took 4-5 years for this to come out raises an eyebrow, and now there are counter-claims that it didn't go down that way. It could be a case of uber-sensationalism, or second-guessing 5 years later, a Stormy Daniels spin-off, or it could actually be worse than reported. No one knows but the cheerleaders who were there. Maybe it's me, but this doesn't seem legit; any form of sexual harassment is absolutely wrong, but the definition of sexual harassment is constantly changing along with the guidelines and time lines; for many women, being whistled at by construction workers makes them feel like they are attractive, but to some others, they feel like they are being assaulted. To be honest, in a way it sounds like either an attention issue or a big payday issue. Had these cheerleaders came out the day after it happened, the week, hell even a month or 6 months afterwards, it would have been a much more incriminating issue, but 5 years later IMO doesn't make sense to me, it has the appearance of a headline story which mirrors the piggy-back stories coming out about most every person in this country right now... I believe you wrote this with the best intent. However, it shows a lack of understanding what exactly the emotional toll such treatment exacts on women - and men when they are exploited like this. The entire "why did it take 5 yrs." thing just does not take into account how much women are made to feel that either it's their fault, it's the job and they could lose it, fear of retribution, and honestly there is also a humiliation quotient. Now, could they just be making all this up to get some attention and maybe a big payday. Of course that's possible. However, as it turns out most of the time these things when investigated turn out to be pretty close to the allegations. Time to report is maybe the worst indicator of accuracy. I hope the team does the right thing and has an outside source complete a full investigation. If that comes up empty then so be it. The women were just making stuff up and quite frankly should be prosecuted themselves. However, any and all wrong doing should also carry consequences. Charges if possible but at least anyone still with the team that's involved should be removed. Let's hope Dan does the right thing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 If this is true Snyder needs to sell his franchise, you can't treat our mothers, daughters, sisters, wives, and friends this way. What is it about some men? They just don't get women, don't understand and appreciate how blessed we are to be in the presence to enjoy their voices, smiles and their femininity, when they mistreat woman they dishonor us all. If this is true the league needs to force Synder to sell the franchise just like the Carolinia franchise. I am so pissed if this true, so damn pissed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger.Staubach Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Wonder what the reaction will be if this turns into another Duke Lacrosse scandal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 11 minutes ago, Roger.Staubach said: Wonder what the reaction will be if this turns into another Duke Lacrosse scandal. And that's a fair question. There is a possibility this is all just BS. However, the bigger problem for me is the general attitude towards the issue in looking for all the reasons it is not true instead of understanding how horrific this is if even just half or it's true. For every Duke incident there are 1000s or real incidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theTruthTeller Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 You can see the entire interview with Rachel and Charo here. They do a nice job. They dispute whether anyone was forced to do a topless shoot. The article does say that. On the other hand, they claim that they didn't feel like "escorts". I never felt the article was suggesting that they were hookers. Perhaps the article should have said that they were coerced into "accompanying" the sponsors to the night club. The creepy part, to me, is that they were (allegedly) hand-picked. While the interview smoothed out some of the roughest edges of the article, I'm afraid this will only serve to drag out the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkB452 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 46 minutes ago, goskins10 said: The entire "why did it take 5 yrs." thing just does not take into account how much women are made to feel that either it's their fault, it's the job and they could lose it, fear of retribution, and honestly there is also a humiliation quotient. >> See Bill Cosby case...some of these allegations go even further back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I still can't get past the allegation that their passports were taken from them. I don't know about you but I'm not letting anyone take mine from me. If that happened it set the tone from the get-go: you are now under our control. F that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 58 minutes ago, skins island connection said: What a nightmare. Society has deteriorated and life on this blue planet is nothing close to resembling the way it was. I do not know what the real 'truth' is, nor does anyone on this thread; unless anyone was with the cheerleaders in CR, its all speculations and accusations. The fact that it took 4-5 years for this to come out raises an eyebrow, and now there are counter-claims that it didn't go down that way. It could be a case of uber-sensationalism, or second-guessing 5 years later, a Stormy Daniels spin-off, or it could actually be worse than reported. No one knows but the cheerleaders who were there. Maybe it's me, but this doesn't seem legit; any form of sexual harassment is absolutely wrong, but the definition of sexual harassment is constantly changing along with the guidelines and time lines; for many women, being whistled at by construction workers makes them feel like they are attractive, but to some others, they feel like they are being assaulted. To be honest, in a way it sounds like either an attention issue or a big payday issue. Had these cheerleaders came out the day after it happened, the week, hell even a month or 6 months afterwards, it would have been a much more incriminating issue, but 5 years later IMO doesn't make sense to me, it has the appearance of a headline story which mirrors the piggy-back stories coming out about most every person in this country right now... Thank you so much for putting this out here it's exactly how I feel and exactly what I wanted to say unless you're a mouse in the corner or a fly-on-the-wall no one knows exactly what happens.. social media has/still continues/and will continue to deteriorate this planet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 The passports thing is not as unusual as some people are making it seem. Not a commentary on any of the other stuff that happened but it is not uncommon in some countries for hotels to require the passports of overseas guests and added to that I have done some travelling with large groups where the organizer has kept the passports together with tickets and travel documents to facilitate easy check ins at airports, hotels etc. This part at least seems to be less sinister than the article tried to make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger.Staubach Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 38 minutes ago, goskins10 said: And that's a fair question. There is a possibility this is all just BS. However, the bigger problem for me is the general attitude towards the issue in looking for all the reasons it is not true instead of understanding how horrific this is if even just half or it's true. For every Duke incident there are 1000s or real incidents. True to everything you just said (though i don't know and, therefore, cannot dispute the numbers). However, I do believe that we all need to let things play out a bit before we burn members of the organization. As some have mentioned, I would have preferred that an independent entity perform the investigation. Might look better and might also provide more accurate results (unlike the NFL investigation of, and subsequent 'punishment' for spygate). **edited for spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSSkinz Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 21 minutes ago, theTruthTeller said: You can see the entire interview with Rachel and Charo here. They do a nice job. I think we should just take a step back and let this play out, we now have several ex-cheerleaders on record as saying there wasn't an issue and the ones who say there was an issue are anonymous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fordranger76 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 The narrative of Snyder should sell the team is getting ridiculous at the moment with this scandal. The pitchforks are out for Snyder not because of this issue but because many hate the man. That's fine but the folks using this as a springboard for something so large as that are completely ignoring what the true issue may be here and are showing their fangs. Also discounting the ones that have said this did not happen are just as bad as those saying its 100 percent true. We were not there. Period. The bias and condescending snarks that people keep showing is a tired game. If you hate this team as much as some of you say then simply leave it. You do not believe them. Fine. Stand on your own moral ground and go. Don't make a huge issue. Just leave. Courts and public opinion will decide this stories fate. The team is the devil yet still here commentating on your soap boxes threatening to leave. Go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 56 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: The passports thing is not as unusual as some people are making it seem. Not a commentary on any of the other stuff that happened but it is not uncommon in some countries for hotels to require the passports of overseas guests and added to that I have done some travelling with large groups where the organizer has kept the passports together with tickets and travel documents to facilitate easy check ins at airports, hotels etc. This part at least seems to be less sinister than the article tried to make it. Where does one keep a passport when they are doing an essentially naked photo shoot? Having one person secure them seems to be better than having them leave them in the hotel room from a practical standpoint. I understands there could be a sinister angle, but I don't really think that's actually the case here. Interesting that the article says 'several' of the girls decided to not return the following year. I would think all five who participated in the story would have chosen to not return given what is alleged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 2 hours ago, SWFLSkins said: If anyone reads the comments on twitter for that tweet, they are largely insulting, incredibly hypocritical, and shows how a lot of people care far more about getting hyped up over the latest controversy than understanding all the facts before reaching a conclusion. We live in a hot-take culture right now...we absolutely must make our judgments right now and stick to them like glue, no matter what. It's too bad they didn't ask about the passports, but I guess that's not as sexy as forced topless posing for business men. The reality is, it's impossible to know right now what actually happened during that trip in 2013 outside of the basics. There was a photo shoot. Some of the cheerleaders went topless to get certain photos even though the photos themselves didn't show anything--which, by the way, is one of the things about the article that irritates the living **** out of me...the way it described the photoshoot was incredibly disingenuous and written in a way to make it sound as dirty and unsavory as possible. To give an example, here's a true story of mine: a mother I know sent me about 60 topless photos of her stunning 20 year old daughter. That's it. That's the story. Except, you know...that's not the whole story. But if that's what I told you and let you fill in the blanks yourself, it's gonna sound a ****load more perverted than it was (and it wasn't perverted in the slightest). Also reminds me of that headline "Cop tasers 72 year old grandmother". While everyone else was using the story as another piece of evidence why cops are power-hungry Nazis, my first question was "Why say she's a grandmother?" lol...would tasing her be any different if this 72 year old woman never had any children? Whether or not her kids had kids is one billion percent irrelevant to the story. But, you know, saying "grandmother" is technically true and makes us fill in the blanks ourselves...which is basically having visuals of Betty White whitherng on the ground in pain while a 6' 2" cop in shades looks down on her smiling. Much harder to visualize just a "72 year old woman"...too generic. I say that to say this: do not ignore the possibility that the article was written to play-up certain aspects of the stories to make them sound as sinister as possible. Again, this was not an investigative piece, it's a recounting of stories using both quotes and paraphrasing of people to construct a story. So basically it's several people's perceptions filtered through another person's perceptions, and very little fact-checking or investigating done to give the most accurate portrayal possible. I give validity to the cheerleader's perceptions, their quotes seemed genuine. but the actual facts surrounding the stories in the article are few and far between right now: The Cheerleaders went to Costa Rica. The organization held their passports. They had a photoshoot in which some of the cheerleaders went topless to get some of the photos. Sponsors apparently attended at least part of the photoshoot. After the shoot, some cheerleaders were asked to go to a club where the sponsors were at as well. Everything else reported is either perception or unsubstantiated. I can name at least 10 additional facts that must--MUST--be known for each of the things above to put things in correct context before I can start to draw an intelligent conclusion instead of an emotional one. And for anyone wanting to claim I'm just making excuses for Bruce and Dan, I'll say this: if you are ever charged with a crime and are taken to court...you are gonna pray like hell that I'm on your jury lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 30 minutes ago, Roger.Staubach said: True to everything you just said (though i don't know and, therefore, cannot dispute the numbers). However, I do believe that we all need to let things play out a bit before we burn members of the organization. As some have mentioned, I would have preferred that an independent entity perform the investigation. Might look better and might also provide more accurate results (unlike the NFL investigation of, and subsequent 'punishment' for spygate). **edited for spelling I was one of those that suggested an independent investigation. Also, I have been very careful to say repeatedly that if the allegations are true. Having said that, this type of thing happens more than any of us like to admit. Maybe one positive outcome is that it puts teams and other organizations on notice that it will be more difficult to get away with this type of ignorance. If that happens, then quite frankly it's worth the temporary bad look this is for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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