NYT - Redskins Cheerleaders Describe Trip to Costa Rica that Crossed the Line

[thebluefood]

But as the NYT story mentioned: the 'Skins were at the forefront this trend - one that isn't even industry standard. Of course they're going to be "targeted" - that's what happens when you're at the forefront of a trend or movement. And as other sporting events (like F1 races) had the good sense to scale back on it, the NFL (especially the 'Skins) doubled down.

 

And why? To promote the team? To promote their luxury suites? They are the flagship franchise of the Washington, D.C. Metro Area and have been since the 1930s. Despite a slew of PR foul-ups and mediocre play, this team is still one of the most valuable in the world. What was the purpose of any of this? Especially if they were paid anywhere near federal minimum wage as they were in Houston (I have no reason to believe they were paid much better at FedEx Field). 

 

And along with being paraded out like show ponies for extravagantly wealthy men (kinda like some of the team's alum are) - what else does a day on the job as an "ambassador" include?

 

Quote

Another former ambassador said she dreaded working at team-sponsored tailgate parties, where fans were invited to chug beer. Intoxicated men would grab them and hug them, she said, and make inappropriate comments.

“It was like, oh, yuck,” the former ambassador said, explaining that when asked to sign autographs she would write “Meg” next to her picture on the team photo. Her name is not Meg.

 

And don't go sputtering "well, that's just what happens when you're around drunk dudes at the game." To hell with that chauvinistic, "boys will be boys" nonsense. These are women at their place of work. You don't touch people without their explicit consent. That goes double for when those people are on the clock. I don't care if they're at a tailgating party or an office or a restaurant or dancing on a poll: a worker is a worker is a worker. 

 

But as we've already mentioned, it isn't only the Redskins doing this. I mentioned the Texans "Ambassador" program, too. How is that working out for them?

 

Quote

Before one game, Chambers and two of her teammates said, Gary taped a cheerleader’s stomach with thick tape to make it appear flatter under her shorts.

“That was a memory that was so vivid, I’ll never forget it,” Chambers said. “I can’t believe that it was even happening, but the girl did as she was told. It was exactly like a master controlling a puppet.”

The appearance team cheerleaders would be on the field for player introductions or special events like giveaway contests, but once the game began, they would head into the crowd and into the suites. In the suites, women would “get touched a lot because the men are intoxicated and think they can try anything,” she said.

She often would go into the stands to give fans prizes, like coupons for free furniture or tacos for a year. On one occasion, a fan ran his hands over her crotch. She notified a police officer and told the team, she said, but nothing was done about it.

 

And on top of their aforementioned $7.25/hour pay (which nearly $4.00 below a living wage in Harris County, Texas according to the MIT Living Wage Calculator) - what other perks come with the job?

 

Quote

At the team’s year-end meeting last month, Chambers said the women were given Starbucks gift cards in appreciation for their hard work. When Chambers tried to use the card, though, the cashier handed it back to her.

“Sorry, this card was never even registered,” the cashier said. “It’s a zero balance.”

When Chambers checked with her teammates, some said their cards had $5 on them.

 

Now I've already gone on and on and on about reporting standards including when and why reporters will use anonymous sources. I've already said all I can say about that. This is not only a gender issue and the way we, as a society, view women and how they should be treated; this is also a labor issue. As I said before: these women were on the clock and you treat people at work with respect and you sure as hell don't treat people like the Redskins cheerleaders (and other cheerleaders) have been treated.

 

If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't pay my Union dues every month. I'll be damned if I'm going to ever cape for management, even if what they did was within the confines of the law or social acceptability. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

On 6/1/2018 at 12:09 PM, thebluefood said:

If I didn't believe that, I wouldn't pay my Union dues every month. I'll be damned if I'm going to ever cape for management, even if what they did was within the confines of the law or social acceptability. 

 

 

I find it hard to get worked up over an article as poorly written as this latest NYT piece. It's seriously a terrible article, and I've supported improving the working conditions of cheerleaders based on earlier NYT articles this year. This one, though, just sucks eggs. It tries too hard, it leaves out WAY too much, it includes far too little investigative journalism, asks almost zero questions, and is written as if by someone who has no clue whatsoever about cheerleading and sports.

 

My guess is that this latest write-up will barely cause a ripple. And that's a shame. It's obviously an attempt to create a series of expose' articles on a worthwhile cause, but this latest article is the newspaper equivalent of "Couldn't this have gone into another existing thread?...Not every thought should have its own thread."

[c slag]

On Friday, June 01, 2018 at 3:09 PM, thebluefood said:

 They are the flagship franchise of the Washington, D.C. Metro Area and have been since the 1930s. Despite a slew of PR foul-ups and mediocre play

 

 

 

In a week or two a lot of the luster might come off of the flagship at least for a while 

[thebluefood]

On 6/3/2018 at 8:42 AM, Califan007 said:

 

I find it hard to get worked up over an article as poorly written as this latest NYT piece. It's seriously a terrible article, and I've supported improving the working conditions of cheerleaders based on earlier NYT articles this year. This one, though, just sucks eggs. It tries too hard, it leaves out WAY too much, it includes far too little investigative journalism, asks almost zero questions, and is written as if by someone who has no clue whatsoever about cheerleading and sports.

 

My guess is that this latest write-up will barely cause a ripple. And that's a shame. It's obviously an attempt to create a series of expose' articles on a worthwhile cause, but this latest article is the newspaper equivalent of "Couldn't this have gone into another existing thread?...Not every thought should have its own thread."

This I will concede: that it wasn't very well written (at least not as well written as the initial article) but I did appreciate the insight into these "ambassador programs." Unfortunately, following up on a story isn't always easy to do well. It's like making a sequel to a movie - you have to build on it not just repeat the beats of the old story. I can understand wanting to write a follow-up quickly so the story doesn't get lost in the shuffle but it fell flat and unfortunately, I have a feeling the organization as a whole is going to escape unscathed (especially since they made a FO firing for good will's sake) 

 

9 hours ago, c slag said:

In a week or two a lot of the luster might come off of the flagship at least for a while 

That may be but not only because of what might happen in the next week or two but because Washington has changed as well as its sports landscape. The 'Skins haven't been in a position like this since their days in Boston. They have to compete for a city's attention in a crowded field. What's more - all those teams are playing relatively well (they've become postseason staples, though they've gained a reputation for choking in the clutch).

 

Plus they don't play in the city anymore. That's got to be a factor. As awful as Metro is, I know I can head down to see three of the city's four major teams with relative ease by rail. Hell, D.C. United is more Metro accessible than the 'Skins are. That is a problem - especially if parking is expensive (which it is). I'm one of those "Millennials (TM)" everyone can't stop raking over the coals so take it from me: affordability, accessibility, and a solid game day experience (nothing fancy - just no obstructed views or anything) is all most of us - at least those of us who like sports - ask for. The city's three other major teams have that. The 'Skins do not.

 

All that along with a toxic FO and you got yourself a nice "I'll never give this organization my hard earned money or support again" stew.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The points above are all very good and well stated. I am a little confused about the focus on the wages...this isn't a full-time job so the minimum wage claim doesn't seem relevant to me. 

 

This is something these girls do as a supplement to whatever their careers are. I don't believe it was ever intended to be something that should provide a living wage. Of course, they deserve protections and a healthy working environment, but I don't think the wages matter in my opinion. 

[Mooka]

We play the Giants twice a year and I didn't even know they don't have cheerleaders. 

 

Hell, I've been to a Skins game in NY and don't remember.

 

Just get rid of them already. Have some people run around the stands and throw out some T-shirts.

[thebluefood]

1 hour ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

The points above are all very good and well stated. I am a little confused about the focus on the wages...this isn't a full-time job so the minimum wage claim doesn't seem relevant to me. 

 

This is something these girls do as a supplement to whatever their careers are. I don't believe it was ever intended to be something that should provide a living wage. Of course, they deserve protections and a healthy working environment, but I don't think the wages matter in my opinion. 

Thank you for saying that because it reminded me of another thing this story was lacking: more information about what they do apart from working as "team ambassadors". That would have given us some more insight into what was at stake for them. I know I've had to string part-time gigs together to make ends meet and despite their awful pay - at one time, I had three jobs going with my "main gig" paying about $12,000/year - losing one would have been devastating and could have triggered a financial and existential crisis.

 

Before I got this job in PA, I was facing the very real possibility of having to either couch surf or squat in one of Greenville, North Carolina's "beautiful" abandoned houses. Now, cost-of-living is way lower there than it is in the D.C. Metro Area so if they're in a similar position I was in, having that paycheck (demeaning as it was) may have made the difference between having food to eat that week or not. That's one of the reasons why I brought up wages (though I know it isn't a full-time gig in the legal sense of the word) and why I see the reasoning behind using anonymous sources in these stories. 

 

[pjfootballer]

59 minutes ago, Mooka said:

We play the Giants twice a year and I didn't even know they don't have cheerleaders. 

 

Hell, I've been to a Skins game in NY and don't remember.

 

Just get rid of them already. Have some people run around the stands and throw out some T-shirts.

 

Every NFL team has a squad of female only cheerleaders with the exception of:

 

Pittsburgh- None

Chicago- None (although they used to have the Honey Bears up until 1986)

NY Giants- None

Cleveland- None

Green Bay- Men and women cheer squad- not scantily dressed- dressed like 1950s cheerleaders.

Baltimore- Men and women cheer squad- standard uniforms like college.

[thebluefood]

Plus, I'm not about to support anyone losing their job because management screw-ups, even if it's a side gig. Maybe expand the team and include men and women, like the Packers and Ravens.

 

Also, I did not know about the Packers having cheerleaders. Talk about Midwestern Modest (though it makes sense - gets awfully cold up there).

[TD_washingtonredskins]

4 minutes ago, thebluefood said:

Plus, I'm not about to support anyone losing their job because management screw-ups, even if it's a side gig. Maybe expand the team and include men and women, like the Packers and Ravens.

 

Also, I did not know about the Packers having cheerleaders. Talk about Midwestern Modest (though it makes sense - gets awfully cold up there).

 

That's just it though...NFL Cheerleader isn't a job (or at least it shouldn't be). It's something most of these girls do in their spare time because they probably enjoy it. I'm guessing many of them would do it regardless of the pay. 

 

Please note that I'm only addressing the financial side of this. No matter what we do (volunteer, work part-time, whatever) we should be afforded a respectful and safe environment. But the fact that these girls make very little money doing this shouldn't weigh into this discussion at all. My guess is that they are doing the games, practices, and any other events in order to supplement their incomes...many of these girls are students, teachers, young professionals, etc. 

[thebluefood]

1 minute ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

That's just it though...NFL Cheerleader isn't a job (or at least it shouldn't be). It's something most of these girls do in their spare time because they probably enjoy it. I'm guessing many of them would do it regardless of the pay. 

 

 

I hear (see?) what you're saying, for sure. There's no way someone could support themselves year-round as an NFL cheerleader and from what I understand, these are side gigs at most and hobbies. 

 

It's still hard for me to square low payment of any kind - even for something like cheerleading - when you're working for a billion-dollar industry in any capacity but I may be speaking more from my personal beliefs on labor (which could be a thread of its own).

[TD_washingtonredskins]

15 minutes ago, thebluefood said:

I hear (see?) what you're saying, for sure. There's no way someone could support themselves year-round as an NFL cheerleader and from what I understand, these are side gigs at most and hobbies. 

 

It's still hard for me to square low payment of any kind - even for something like cheerleading - when you're working for a billion-dollar industry in any capacity but I may be speaking more from my personal beliefs on labor (which could be a thread of its own).

I see your point, but I guess to me it's incumbent on the participants to make that decision. If you NEED to maximize income then maybe fulfilling your dream/passion as a cheerleader isn't the best way to go. The juice (financially at least) isn't worth the squeeze (time commitment).

 

Better said - if you truly needed to keep food on your table, maybe being a cheerleader isn't in the cards for you. There are better ways to make ends meet. 

[zoony]

The market sets their wage.  There is 0 indication that the market is not functioning properly

 

The reason wages are low is very simple.  There is a tremendous supply of talent fighting over a few jobs, and the job itself is superfluous and lacking in any responsibilty or economic impact.  Cheerleaders could probably overcome the supply amd demand issue by unionizing.  However that leaves the superfluous part.  Good luck with that.

 

In the meantime, lets blame men.

[thebluefood]

On that point, I will certainly agree with you. If I were able to make my daily bread on freelancing, I would've done it but I was only able to make about $100 a pop doing it. Nice to have if the car needs new tires but you're not for paying the rent. 

[CTskin]

On 6/1/2018 at 3:09 PM, thebluefood said:

And on top of their aforementioned $7.25/hour pay (which nearly $4.00 below a living wage in Harris County, Texas according to the MIT Living Wage Calculator) - what other perks come with the job?

 

I honestly don't see why cheerleaders deserve to be paid much higher than minimum wage. This is not a profession, it's a part-time job; it's not like they're trying to live off of this pay as your statistic insinuates. They are essentially doing the same job as the sign flippers on the sidewalk who are most likely also making minimum wage. It doesn't matter that the mattress store owner is living comfortably just like it doesn't matter that the league and NFL owners are making money hand over fist. At the high school and college level, cheerleading involves advanced tumbling and a very high level of skill, but at the professional level, not even sign flipping talent is required. 

 

I'm curious as to what people think the solution to this "problem" is. Put more clothes on the cheerleaders? Do away with the calendar? No longer promote the cheerleaders at public events? If the answer is "yes" to all of the above, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. 100% of the people posting in The Stadium are here for the Redskins football team, not for the cheerleaders. I'd love for this to be sorted out so everyone can move on.

[WelshSkinsFan]

I believe this has been sorted out @CTskin

 

The story is played out in the media and never got much traction to begin with due to the lack of any attributable sources and the fact that unlike some other teams facing similar issues there has been no move by any of the unnamed sources to begin legal action against the team.  On the other hand quite a few former cheerleaders happily went on the record on tv and in print to say the story was grossly exaggerated and not at all representative of their experiences.

 

Regardless of this, the executive with responsibility for the Cheerleaders at the time this all went down has been removed from the team and so that ought to be the end of it.

 

 

[MartinC]

On 6/4/2018 at 10:08 AM, Mooka said:

We play the Giants twice a year and I didn't even know they don't have cheerleaders. 

 

Hell, I've been to a Skins game in NY and don't remember.

 

Just get rid of them already. Have some people run around the stands and throw out some T-shirts.

 

Almost every NFL Network "top 10 list" or game advert is punctuated with obligatory shots of NFL cheerleaders wearing not a lot doing stripper pole routines to camera (without the actual pole). Now I enjoy that - but it does seem very anachronistic and inappropriate for what is a sport trying to attract younger and female viewers/fans. 

[MarkB452]

On ‎6‎/‎4‎/‎2018 at 2:11 PM, pjfootballer said:

Every NFL team has a squad of female only cheerleaders with the exception of:

 

Looks like Buffalo suspended having a squad in 2014 after a lawsuit over wages.

 

Shortly after the squad's 35 members were selected for the 2014 season, a lawsuit was filed on April 22 by five former Jills that alleged the cheerleaders were not paid for hours they worked.^[7] Management then responded 2 days later by "suspending operations" of the cheerleading squad.^[8]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_Jills

[Stadium-Armory]

Bring back the funky four.

 

 

[Spearfeather]

4 hours ago, Stadium-Armory said:

Bring back the funky four.

 

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                               Please don't.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

For some teams (maybe all of them?) cheerleaders are required to have full-time jobs, so it's never approached in a manner of being something to live off of, by either side. It still doesn't mean they get grossly underpaid, but the women do enter into it knowing they won't be making much of a salary. They go into it for different reasons than money.

 

As for what should be done, in my eyes it's rather simple (which kind of pisses me off because these issues could have been solved quickly and easily). Always provide security nearby, specifically for their protection--meaning, don't just have "someone" they can go to at some point and lodge a complaint, have someone within eyesight that can be summoned over with quick eye contact. Ban fans who go too far for the season. Will cost more, but you're throwing these scantily clad women in with drunk fans, so it should be an expected expense. And provide the protection when they visit private citizens at private functions as well...and, no, the person in charge of the cheerleading squad is not considered protection. They have a conflict of interest and too many questionable calls can result. Doesn't have to be a bodyguard or anything but someone with presence and authority to be nearby and make sure nothing gets out of hand. For that matter, eliminate sending cheerleaders or "ambassadors" to private homes for any reason other than charitable events (visit a sick bedridden fan, etc). it should require more than cobbling together a few grand to have NFL cheerleaders walking around your livingroom lol...

 

Raise the pay a little...not a lot, but something a bit more reasonable. The NFL is a billion-dollar industry, it can afford it. Cut down on the required expenses cheerleaders have to make...read in one article about them having to buy 100 calendars as part of being on the squad. Sure, they can autograph them and sell them for more, but there's no reason to force them to have to go that route. What if one of these ladies doesn't want to spend time trying to sell autographed calendars? Why should she be made to buy them anyway?

 

All photoshoots that require any level of nudity to get the shots will be closed photoshoots. Have that in their contracts so they know ahead of time. I still say the photographer should have taken charge there--I would have--but if it's known by the women ahead of time that any shoots requiring toplessness will also require a closed set, they can bring it up beforehand.

 

Provide small perks (which I'm sure is done to a certain extent already) that at least show appreciation. Relax on rules like forcing cheerleaders to leave public places if a player arrives. I understand the issues and concerns but you gotta let them all be the adults they are and just re-emphasize the "no fraternization" rules maybe with harsher penalties, for BOTH players and cheerleaders. 

[MarkB452]

After five former Redskins cheerleaders revealed a culture of intimidation and harrassment in a New York Times story in May, two of those cheerleaders spoke again with the Times on Thursday. 

Rebecca Cummings and Allison Cassidy agreed to be named on Thursday in hopes of "denouncing attempts to discredit them and to speak on the record about their experiences and their frustrations at what they consider the slow pace of change to protect N.F.L. cheerleaders from degrading treatment," according to the Times.

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/09/27/former-redskins-cheerleaders-speak-out-organizational-harassment

 

 

Redskins announce changes to the cheerleading squad as well:

 

Slightly more conservative outfits. The potential inclusion of men and youngsters in a game-day "Energy Team" that would interact with fans in a "family-friendly" manner. And the end, perhaps, of the Washington Redskins cheerleaders' annual swimsuit calendar - to be replaced by something more "demure."

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/ct-spt-redskins-nfl-cheerleaders-mistreatment-20180928-story.html