Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 11 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said: So many angles...... Did you see the response to that tweet... Larn @BigLarnarld Replying to @bikinipro Are you a Holocaust denier too? I mean as a human, you never did those yucky things so it must not have happened. Again, the level of hypocrisy and hyperbole with responses like this is off the charts. They also show that there's definitely a segment of the population which automatically believes the story and feel no more thought or consideration is needed, and other perspectives which tell a different story are irrelevant or--worse--are paid for and not true. And using the Holocaust in connection to this in any way, shape or form is incredibly insulting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 If this comes out as Fake News smear job Dan Snyder is going to look like a total witch hunt victim here. I always believe the victim, until I don't. There are many motivation$ for someone to go after a former employer like this. I truly hope that is not the case for these young women though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 4 hours ago, goskins10 said: This is an interview with Jerry Brewer of the Washington Post with the Sport Junkies (106.7) for those not in the area. The topic is not if the allegations are true or not it's about the teams handling of it. The immediate "Nothing to see here folks, move along" - my words - initial approach and only when there was significant public pressure did they release a statement that they would investigate and hold anyone accountable that did something wrong. Why not do that from the beginning? 1 That would have been smarter, I agree. But on the "Things Califan Cares About In Connection To These Allegations" list, it ranks around #16, just above "What did the sponsors' wives think of all this?"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 14 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Me going to twitter and getting tweets to post lol... Well I am finally dumping Century to Link up,. sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo slow... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grego Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 32 minutes ago, thebluefood said: Ah, right, my point was to say the NYT is infallible. Not that they have checks in place to make sure they don't make mistakes or get slapped with libel suits. No - infallibility. They are the "News Popes." That was exactly my point. Looks like the Medidiots have been thrwarted once again. Guess we'll have to go back to twirling our mustaches and grinding our axes back somewhere else. I'm not 100% sure there's much if anything in the article that is libelous in terms of facts given - maybe whether or not the 'escorting' was mandatory or whether that was their interpretation. It's been challenged as voluntary, anyway. The article seems to be the perspective and opinion of a few women while other women clearly have a different opinion about the trip. It's about how some people felt, and I don't think anyone can say they did or didn't feel a certain way. What a writer can do is frame a story, based on some individuals feelings about something they experienced, by being selective about what they say or don't say and give an impression to the reader. Virtually everyone who read it, based on the first dozen or so pages in this thread, came away seemingly convinced something bad had gone down based on a few opinions of events from almost 5 years ago {and that's largely because it's the redskins and Dan Snyder}. Now that other cheerleaders are giving their opinions, what we think happened seems a little different. I think the author wrote an article to evoke emotion (which is what media basically is today). Mission accomplished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, grego said: I'm not 100% sure there's much if anything in the article that is libelous in terms of facts given - maybe whether or not the 'escorting' was mandatory or whether that was their interpretation. It's been challenged as voluntary, anyway. The article seems to be the perspective and opinion of a few women while other women clearly have a different opinion about the trip. It's about how some people felt, and I don't think anyone can say they did or didn't feel a certain way. What a writer can do is frame a story, based on some individuals feelings about something they experienced, by being selective about what they say or don't say and give an impression to the reader. Virtually everyone who read it, based on the first dozen or so pages in this thread, came away seemingly convinced something bad had gone down based on a few opinions of events from almost 5 years ago {and that's largely because it's the redskins and Dan Snyder}. Now that others are giving their opinions, what we think happened seems a little different. I think the author wrote an article to evoke emotion (which is what media basically is today). Mission accomplished. The date of the occurrence is concerning, 2013. Why now? why wait? so upsetting it took five years to bring it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 2 minutes ago, XxSpearheadxX said: If this comes out as Fake News smear job Dan Snyder is going to look like a total witch hunt victim here. I always believe the victim, until I don't. There are many motivation$ for someone to go after a former employer like this. I truly hope that is not the case for these young women though. I highly doubt it's a Fake News smear job...there are just too many issues within the NFL cheerleader community--too many issues of safety and pay and undignified and over-sexualized circumstances and being put into unsafe situations and grabbing and touching and slurs and insults yelling into their faces--for there to even need to be any "fake news" to make up (I'm assuming that's what Trump's "fake news" refers to lol). But I think we are taking waaaaay too much of an "either/or' approach concerning the article. Either it's all true or it's all lies. Either we believe the anonymous cheerleaders quoted in the article or we believe the cheerleaders speaking on the record now. Either Snyder and Allen are evil incarnate or they are the innocent victims of a smear job and maybe even an extortion plot. What is being overlooked is the wide range and variety of ways in which something can be said and written. Which you would think is immediately obvious to people who post all the damn time on a message board lol ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 3 minutes ago, SWFLSkins said: The date of the occurrence is concerning, 2013. Why now? why wait? so upsetting it took five years to bring it up? Like I've said before, 2 cheerleaders (1 from Miami, 1 from New Orleans) filed a complaint with the league about the way they were treated. It would appear to me that the author saw this and decided to reach out to other teams cheerleaders to see if they had similar issues, and a small group of former Redskins cheerleaders confirmed that they had a similar situation and the author ran with it. I don't believe the cheerleaders came forward with the story, I think the writer went fishing and ran with a story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 minute ago, OVCChairman said: Like I've said before, 2 cheerleaders (1 from Miami, 1 from New Orleans) filed a complaint with the league about the way they were treated. It would appear to me that the author saw this and decided to reach out to other teams cheerleaders to see if they had similar issues, and a small group of former Redskins cheerleaders confirmed that they had a similar situation and the author ran with it. I don't believe the cheerleaders came forward with the story, I think the writer went fishing and ran with a story. Possible. I have also read it was two other teams having cheerleader instances which were formal complaints that lead to this story being ran. Two different teams, not the Redskins initially. Don't know how much to put into that. But agree with Cali this is systemic, also agree with Brewer, our teams handling of this sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 minute ago, SWFLSkins said: Possible. I have also read it was two other teams having cheerleader instances which were formal complaints that lead to this story being ran. Two different teams, not the Redskins initially. Don't know how much to put into that. But agree with Cali this is systemic, also agree with Brewer, our teams handling of this sucks. absolutely, i was just speaking as to why now. I think a sports writer caught wind of a situation and immediately looked at us as an easy target. I don't think it's an accident that we're the focus of the article and that the actual filed complaints with the league are almost an afterthought. If you read that article, there's a passover of the complaint from the other two young ladies, with no information of what their complaint actually was. Why is that? I'm not expecting everyone to see it as some sort of a conspiracy as much as we are an easy target, especially since, and this is supported by a quick google search of 'New York Times Redskins Name,' 2013 there have been articles reported regarding our name and their opinion of it... and i saw as far back as 2013 on just the first page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 21 hours ago, grego said: They did botch that nail salon exploitation story a few years ago. It's possible. Did they do that in this case? Who knows. What the ‘Times’ Got Wrong About Nail Salons Richard Bernstein "How to account for these evident flaws, the one-sidedness of the Times story? Recently the Times’s own Nick Kristof wrote in a column that “one of our worst traits in journalism is that when we have a narrative in our minds, we often plug in anecdotes that confirm it,” and, he might have added, consciously or not, ignore anecdotes and other information that doesn’t. The narrative chosen by the Times, what might be called the narrative of wholesale injustice, is one of the most powerful and tempting in journalism. Certainly, as Mr. Baquet put it, it had “impact.” It was read, he told an audience in mid-June, by 5 million people, which is five times the readership of the Sunday print edition, and produced an immediate government response. But the quest for impact can overwhelm a newspaper’s primary responsibility for accuracy" http://www.nybooks.com/daily/2015/07/25/nail-salons-new-york-times-got-wrong/ I'm quoting this again, because I feel like it was just brushed aside earlier. The takeaway quote: "But the quest for impact can overwhelm a newspaper’s primary responsibility for accuracy" That's been one of the main points in my recent posts...that this article could very well have been written for impact at the expense of accuracy. Too much info is left out of the story. As readers we also have a responsibility in all of this...and it's irresponsible for us to say the missing info and facts don't matter. it's irresponsible to just run with the assumption that since it's the NYT we can take everything at face value and don't need to question any of it. It's irresponsible to not separate what the cheerleaders experienced from how those experiences were written about and framed in the article. It's irresponsible to reach conclusions immediately instead of showing some patience. It's irresponsible to not even consider any of these things as important or necessary. I do get, though, that what we're doing on this thread may be different from what we're doing in our heads away from the interwebs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 25 minutes ago, OVCChairman said: I don't believe the cheerleaders came forward with the story, I think the writer went fishing and ran with a story. Well, yeah...this is inserted into the earlier cheerleader articles online: Are You a Current or Former Cheerleader or Dancer for College Sports? We would like to hear from current and former college cheerleaders or dancers for college sports about their experiences. A reporter or editor might contact you to hear more about your story. If you prefer to share your story anonymously, please visit our confidential tips page. For me personally, it doesn't matter which way the story came into being. EDIT: And I know it says "college", but when inserted into stories about some of the horrors of being a professional cheerleader, the implications are obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Even if the events didn't happen I would like the Vegas showgirl/stripper lite aspect of it rolledback. I guess this showgirl thing started decades ago when the Cowgirls cheerleaders became a national sensation in the 70's. Now it is just another way for a slimy guy like Synder to sell sex and I don't like and it pollutes the League. After thought, if the allegations are true the League should kick Snyder out. If not true the showgirl stuff needs to go anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OVCChairman Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 15 minutes ago, Califan007 said: Well, yeah...this is inserted into the earlier cheerleader articles online: Are You a Current or Former Cheerleader or Dancer for College Sports? We would like to hear from current and former college cheerleaders or dancers for college sports about their experiences. A reporter or editor might contact you to hear more about your story. If you prefer to share your story anonymously, please visit our confidential tips page. For me personally, it doesn't matter which way the story came into being. EDIT: And I know it says "college", but when inserted into stories about some of the horrors of being a professional cheerleader, the implications are obvious. So that in itself explains why the story is being written about something that happened 5 years ago... and clearly for 5 years these young ladies didn't feel something bad enough happened to come forward with it until they were approached.... if my theory is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: Even if the events didn't happen I would like the Vegas showgirl/stripper lite aspect of it rolledback. I guess this showgirl thing started decades ago when the Cowgirls cheerleaders became a national sensation in the 70's. Now it is just another way for a slimy guy like Synder to sell sex and I don't like and it pollutes the League. After thought, if the allegations are true the League should kick Snyder out. If not true the showgirl stuff needs to go anyways. This is true, and it shows as Snyder trying to one up Jerry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 2 hours ago, Califan007 said: Not saying this about you, just using your post as a jumping off point...but.... Why are any of us assuming the passports were taken to intimidate the cheerleaders? Is there another article that alludes to this being a possibility, or is it just a case of giving a minimum of information and letting readers extrapolate and fill in the blanks themselves? Perception is reality in cases like this. Even it were not meant this way, for some reason the women who came forward felt intimidated. No one gets to tell them they were not. And their concerns must be taken seriously - not suggesting you are not - more of a general statement. I agree there needs to be an investigation to determine intent because there is a clear difference between the team intending to make them feel intimidated or the women misunderstanding what happened and took it the wrong way. But either way they felt intimidated. So at the very least there needs to be clarity around what is going to happen when they go on these trips, down to details about the passports and who was going to be there and other details. 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: That would have been smarter, I agree. But on the "Things Califan Cares About In Connection To These Allegations" list, it ranks around #16, just above "What did the sponsors' wives think of all this?"... It's much higher than that for me. They are the ones who own this. If they do not take it seriously then it's hard to imagine anyone else will. They have a responsibility to take the concerns seriously and do the right thing and commission an investigation - an independent one not an in house one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Step One. Ignore the allegations and hope it fades away. Step Two. Story gains strength so you announce that you are deeply bothered and will initiate a thorough investigation to give off the impression of being totally clueless and not involved in the scandal. Step Three. You put out a pr that you have talked to several other cheerleaders on the trip and the story they gave doesn’t fit the allegations....basically calling the 5 cheerleaders who made the allegations all liars. Step Four. You have several cheerleaders tell the media that they have never felt pressured, coerced, threatened, or in danger at any of these functions. Basically saying everything has always been hunky dory and you loved your time and were honored to be strutting around half naked as a Redskins ‘cheerleader’. Attempting to change the narrative and build your case against the 5. Step Five. You post a picture of the 9 cheerleaders chosen to be escorts for some prominent sponsors to that nightclub all smiling and giving the impression that everyone was having a great time to counter the story that some were crying and forced to go. But what is not acknowledged is that cheerleaders are ALWAYS smiling....either trained to on cue or just naturally whenever pictures are taken. I have seen people have a big fights then seconds later smile for a photo numerous times. But pictures are worth a thousand words..... Step Six. You investigate the three dozen cheerleaders that went on the trip and you then indentify and out the 5 that contributed to the story. (This is coming next within a few days) Step Seven. You denigrate and slander their reputations as troublemakers, gold diggers, difficult....or worse drug addicts and drunks. We have seen Redskins PR machine do this too many times to count so we can bet that this is going to come at some point. Rich and powerful men get away with these things because they know how to spin the narrative, intimidate, buy off and know that common people do not have the means to fight these types of charges in court. They always win unless someone in the media or other similar victims are able to persevere and keep fighting until it is all exposed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 @XtremeFan55 That is certainly one possibility. There are others that are just as likely and that is how any level headed person should view a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 5 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said: Step Four. You have several cheerleaders tell the media that they have never felt pressured, coerced, threatened, or in danger at any of these functions. Basically saying everything has always been hunky dory and you loved your time and were honored to be strutting around half naked as a Redskins ‘cheerleader’. Attempting to change the narrative and build your case against the 5. Step Five. You post a picture of the 9 cheerleaders chosen to be escorts for some prominent sponsors to that nightclub all smiling and giving the impression that everyone was having a great time to counter the story that some were crying and forced to go. But what is not acknowledged is that cheerleaders are ALWAYS smiling....either trained to on cue or just naturally whenever pictures are taken. I have seen people have a big fights then seconds later smile for a photo numerous times. But pictures are worth a thousand words..... The cheerleaders posted those responses themselves IMHO. Too many with too much to risk in their personal lives to just come out with PR based, nothing to gain statements. Unless you can find a motivation for them to do so, I think what you are stating is irresponsible at best. A cheerleader and captain posted the pick of the nine, and made a statement....She also has a hashtag with others supporting her. #imwithjojo Look I am as skeptical as anyone of the Redskins organization. The fact that some girls may have had different experiences or were managed differently would not surprise me. But let's not run away with conjecture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky52Mc Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 3 hours ago, clskinsfan said: You can post whatever you want to try to claim the NYT is infallible. But their agenda is perfectly clear to anyone willing to look at it. And I was one of the guys calling for Snyders head for this just a few days ago. What is becoming clear is that most of the women who attended this event disagree with the women who claim these things happened. Now that is not to belittle how those women felt. But it appears to me, as usual, the NYT ran with a story that would help them push their narrative. I am not saying how these women felt isnt horrible. But I am saying that it wouldnt be shocking for the NYT to blow something like this completely out of proportion either. Yeah. Because the women look so horrifyingly unhappy in those photos. I mean it is clear as day that they hate what they are doing???? Man, you're making quite an assumption based off of a photo without understanding anything about the situation. It boggles my mind why people will go to great lengths to protect their fears from turning into uncomfortable realities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWFLSkins Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Jessica Jessie @bikinipro I'm a Master personal trainer, certified nutritionist & IFBB bikini pro. You can also catch me on Fox 5 in DC as their fitness expert. http://JessicaJessie.com . I can't see this girl just coming out about this without risking her own neck. 2 minutes ago, Rocky52Mc said: Man, you're making quite an assumption based off of a photo without understanding anything about the situation. It boggles my mind why people will go to great lengths to protect their fears from turning into uncomfortable realities. I think WE all need to consider the big picture. An investigation needs to occur, a conclusion made and punishment or legal ramifications dealt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 hour ago, Rocky52Mc said: Man, you're making quite an assumption based off of a photo without understanding anything about the situation. It boggles my mind why people will go to great lengths to protect their fears from turning into uncomfortable realities. Great lengths? Dude that is one of the cheerleaders THAT WAS THERE when this event supposedly happened??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 1 hour ago, XtremeFan55 said: Step One. Ignore the allegations and hope it fades away. Step Two. Story gains strength so you announce that you are deeply bothered and will initiate a thorough investigation to give off the impression of being totally clueless and not involved in the scandal. Step Three. You put out a pr that you have talked to several other cheerleaders on the trip and the story they gave doesn’t fit the allegations....basically calling the 5 cheerleaders who made the allegations all liars. Step Four. You have several cheerleaders tell the media that they have never felt pressured, coerced, threatened, or in danger at any of these functions. Basically saying everything has always been hunky dory and you loved your time and were honored to be strutting around half naked as a Redskins ‘cheerleader’. Attempting to change the narrative and build your case against the 5. Step Five. You post a picture of the 9 cheerleaders chosen to be escorts for some prominent sponsors to that nightclub all smiling and giving the impression that everyone was having a great time to counter the story that some were crying and forced to go. But what is not acknowledged is that cheerleaders are ALWAYS smiling....either trained to on cue or just naturally whenever pictures are taken. I have seen people have a big fights then seconds later smile for a photo numerous times. But pictures are worth a thousand words..... Step Six. You investigate the three dozen cheerleaders that went on the trip and you then indentify and out the 5 that contributed to the story. (This is coming next within a few days) Step Seven. You denigrate and slander their reputations as troublemakers, gold diggers, difficult....or worse drug addicts and drunks. We have seen Redskins PR machine do this too many times to count so we can bet that this is going to come at some point. Rich and powerful men get away with these things because they know how to spin the narrative, intimidate, buy off and know that common people do not have the means to fight these types of charges in court. They always win unless someone in the media or other similar victims are able to persevere and keep fighting until it is all exposed. Nice story.....Except the Skins didnt post the picture AN EX Cheerleader did. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WelshSkinsFan Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 4 hours ago, tshile said: Even if this story is more yellow journalism, I still think the “professional cheerleader” thing is dumb You are entitled to your opinions but they probably think the term IT consultant is dumb, get a real job nerd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 6 minutes ago, WelshSkinsFan said: You are entitled to your opinions but they probably think the term IT consultant is dumb, get a real job nerd I actually produce stuff. They get paid (do they? ) to shake their ass and tits so creepy 40 year olds can stare at them. Most of them would choke if they actually tried to approach a chick with those looks at a bar Their career is based on being a sexual object. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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