Gibbit Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said: So I just heard about this story. All I can say is wow. I'm not going to read the last 17 pages so I'll just stay out of it. But I'm not surprised seeing some of the things just posted on this page. teach us enlightened one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 3 minutes ago, Gibbit said: teach us enlightened one Not sure there is much to teach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said: Yeah, that wouldn’t be a good thing but it’s largely a hypothetical and something to worry about more down the road. Right now it seems like that view has been expressed or implied by a minority. And if people would see it as simply as that while ignoring what actually happened, well, I’m not sure it should even matter what they think. But if we’re getting into how the focus should be on the actual issue, right now I’d say the larger concern is coming from the opposite side of that spectrum. Those who wish to downplay this, minimize it, or seek to somewhat alleviate the Redskins’ top brass via the inclusion of other franchises or whatever other excuses they come up with. Mainly because they’re Skins fans and don’t want to give up their conflation of the franchise itself with ownership (Dan = Redskins). Basically, they want to be able to root for Dan and his top exec/s at any expense. That would be the larger, more immediate (if also only hypothetical) concern if we’re worried about the actual issue being the focus, in my eyes. 2 I'm not seeing that as a concern, because that segment of fans is absolutely dwarfed by those who are making sure this team and this owner and this article are kept front and center and under a harsh spotlight. Count up all the articles and opinion pieces and editorials that have been put out over the last 24 hours that are trashing Snyder and the Skins, then compare it to the number of articles that in some form or another try to downplay the issues and give the team and Snyder some benefit of the doubt. There's no contest. My focus was more fan-based but it was definitely media-based as well. The tone in the media shouldn't be "Look what Snyder and the Redskins did", it should be "What the **** is going on with cheerleaders?" I can't believe how many fans never heard of or read any of the earlier reports by the NYT. The writer puts a call out to any cheerleaders to contact them off the record and tell them any inside info that would shine a light on the negative aspects of being a cheerleader. First time I saw that, I knew these stories were never gonna stop. In fact, I'll make a prediction: another story along these same lines will break before summer, it won't be about the Redskins (my hunch is the Bengals), it will involve actual sex, and everything will blow up...for about a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 7 minutes ago, TheGreatBuzz said: Not sure there is much to teach. I know, we never persuade eachother with these debates anyways. If a change of heart ever happens its due to something other than whats been posted here I enjoy reading about football by the guys much more knowledgable than me vs this **** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreatBuzz Posted May 3, 2018 Share Posted May 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Gibbit said: I know we never persuade eachother with these debates anyways. If a change of heart ever happens its due to something other than whats been posted here True. Also in my experience any topic that fills up 17 pages in a day shows people are doing too much talking and not enough listening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HouseBowlrz Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 59 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said: Sexual harassment has nothing to do with having sex but creating a stressful working environment using sexual suggestive language and behavior. Just making comments to a woman co-worker that she has a great body and must look great nude qualifies. It is words and behavior that is unwanted and that makes the woman uncomfortable that is the issue here. This is reminding me of the sequence in "Disclosure" when the attorney defines sexual harassment: it's not about sex, it's about power. And the confiscation of their passports upon arrival certainly put the ladies at an extreme disadvantage. This thread has taken a life of its own with different thoughts and perspectives. The ladies know going in of the minimal attire, requirements to maintain weight, off the field charity work and such. And I'm sure they knew photo shoots were part of it as well. I suspect, however, that they did not anticipate having to do these topless/nude photo shoots in front of people based on their status with the organization: sponsors, mega-donors and suite holders; being selected for dates as well. The fact that they were not in possession of their passports made them feel powerless to say no, less feel retribution that would also include not being able to go home (by virtue of not having crucial travel documents). That's the line that was crossed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Have to remember that neither Donald Sterling nor Jerry Richardson will be going to jail. It is not a crime....but more of a fireable offense in the workplace. The NFL is a partnership of 32 owner groups who work together to protect the image of the league. They all share and benefit in the financial rewards but must adhere to a code of conduct on how they manage their franchise. If the league feels that this is a big enough problem that will affect the image then they will vote to have the ownership group removed to protect the other ownership groups if necessary. Hence...why Richardson is being forced to sell. They considered his conduct detrimental to the league...therefore he has to go to protect the ‘shield’. Owning a NFL team is not an entitlement since the owners vote to allow which groups to buy into the league. Therefore...since Snyder was voted in back in 1999 because he met their criteria...he can also be forced to sell and will have no legal recourse. The league can also use this to address the long litany of embarrassing issues such as the racist name that have plagued the Redskins for decades. Using the sexual harassment case to also bring a new regime that will change the name as a condition to ownership which will make the league more favorable in the eyes of many fans. We now live in a period of intense scrutiny over sexual harassment in the workplace. This issue is on the forefront of news. What was reported yesterday was the absolute worst type of news a team could have put out there. If it is found true then I believe the league will force Snyder to sell the Redskins. Richardson had 4 women employees and one black employee report discriminatory conduct. The Redskins are facing 5 women employees. The league will deal with this in house to prevent a court case because it is very possible many other teams are also guilty of the same type of conduct which will seriously damage the league. In addition...having seen this too many times in the past..I believe many more Redskin employees are going to come forward and the Redskins and the league will have no choice but to address the problem in a way that is severe enough to put the issue to rest before it explodes into something far greater. we may very well be looking at the end of the Snyder regime of dysfunction, chaos and losing. The Lerner family might be a nice replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clskinsfan Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 "it’s fake news bc bc we were there & we know what really happened, & it wasn’t girls crying or anyone required to go topless. If any of that stuff actually happened of course we would support our teammates but it’s sad that some of them are saying this when it’s not true" https://twitter.com/dcfitchick/status/992107762770481153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 6 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said: Have to remember that neither Donald Sterling nor Jerry Richardson will be going to jail. It is not a crime....but more of a fireable offense in the workplace. The NFL is a partnership of 32 owner groups who work together to protect the image of the league. They all share and benefit in the financial rewards but must adhere to a code of conduct on how they manage their franchise. If the league feels that this is a big enough problem that will affect the image then they will vote to have the ownership group removed to protect the other ownership groups if necessary. Hence...why Richardson is being forced to sell. They considered his conduct detrimental to the league...therefore he has to go to protect the ‘shield’. Owning a NFL team is not an entitlement since the owners vote to allow which groups to buy into the league. Therefore...since Snyder was voted in back in 1999 because he met their criteria...he can also be forced to sell and will have no legal recourse. The league can also use this to address the long litany of embarrassing issues such as the racist name that have plagued the Redskins for decades. Using the sexual harassment case to also bring a new regime that will change the name as a condition to ownership which will make the league more favorable in the eyes of many fans. We now live in a period of intense scrutiny over sexual harassment in the workplace. This issue is on the forefront of news. What was reported yesterday was the absolute worst type of news a team could have put out there. If it is found true then I believe the league will force Snyder to sell the Redskins. Richardson had 4 women employees and one black employee report discriminatory conduct. The Redskins are facing 5 women employees. The league will deal with this in house to prevent a court case because it is very possible many other teams are also guilty of the same type of conduct which will seriously damage the league. In addition...having seen this too many times in the past..I believe many more Redskin employees are going to come forward and the Redskins and the league will have no choice but to address the problem in a way that is severe enough to put the issue to rest before it explodes into something far greater. we may very well be looking at the end of the Snyder regime of dysfunction, chaos and losing. The Lerner family might be a nice replacement. Dan isn't taking any heat for this. don't get your hopes up HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 5 minutes ago, clskinsfan said: "it’s fake news bc bc we were there & we know what really happened, & it wasn’t girls crying or anyone required to go topless. If any of that stuff actually happened of course we would support our teammates but it’s sad that some of them are saying this when it’s not true" https://twitter.com/dcfitchick/status/992107762770481153 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh32 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Rhazaghul said: I don't know you or bh32, but I have been following the nonsense on this message board for a few pages now and I can clearly see that "unbiased thoughts" are not something being shared. Most, if not all, of those attacking bh32 have had one thing in common: A long standing dislike (dare I say hatred) of Dan and Bruce. This feeling is clearly present in their posts. They have judged, convicted and suggested sentence on them with just a small one page story that was short on detail. Now, if something criminal or unethical can be proved to have been committed I am sure that bh32 (as well as myself) would join the chorus to have some punishments handed down. But attacking bh32 for having an opinion that people have control of their lives and can decide to do or not do something they agree or disagree with is just juvenile and is quite frankly the issue causing problems in our country. Dissenting opinions tend to get savaged now a days and those giving them are attacked. Its easy to go along with the mob when they are raging and bh32 is finding out how it feels to go against the mob. I just felt compelled to chime in after reading your attack "on his posts". This entire thread started as an attack on Dan and Bruce and the hatred was so thick you could cut it. There is plenty of bias on this thread and I believe it is clouding rational and logical thought. To those attacking bh32...nothing the team says or does will assuage that anger. It's hard to have an actual discussion in that environment. They are so obsessed with getting rid of Snyder that they make it seem like they actually have sympathy for these women,yet i bet they all look at some type of porn and don't think it's unethical or demoralizing in any way.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 They most likely abstain from porn and meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 24 minutes ago, bh32 said: 4 hours ago, Rhazaghul said: I don't know you or bh32, but I have been following the nonsense on this message board for a few pages now and I can clearly see that "unbiased thoughts" are not something being shared. Most, if not all, of those attacking bh32 have had one thing in common: A long standing dislike (dare I say hatred) of Dan and Bruce. This feeling is clearly present in their posts. They have judged, convicted and suggested sentence on them with just a small one page story that was short on detail. Now, if something criminal or unethical can be proved to have been committed I am sure that bh32 (as well as myself) would join the chorus to have some punishments handed down. But attacking bh32 for having an opinion that people have control of their lives and can decide to do or not do something they agree or disagree with is just juvenile and is quite frankly the issue causing problems in our country. Dissenting opinions tend to get savaged now a days and those giving them are attacked. Its easy to go along with the mob when they are raging and bh32 is finding out how it feels to go against the mob. I just felt compelled to chime in after reading your attack "on his posts". This entire thread started as an attack on Dan and Bruce and the hatred was so thick you could cut it. There is plenty of bias on this thread and I believe it is clouding rational and logical thought. To those attacking bh32...nothing the team says or does will assuage that anger. It's hard to have an actual discussion in that environment. 24 minutes ago, bh32 said: They are so obsessed with getting rid of Snyder that they make it seem like they actually have sympathy for these women,yet i bet they all look at some type of porn and don't think it's unethical or demoralizing in any way.. Yea, that's it. We just hate Dan Snyder so much we could care less about women being treated the way these women apparently were treated. You figured everyone out. It's just a mob thing! No reasoning! No logic just fan rage!! Sorry that just could not be further from the truth here. Neither one of you - or anyone holding that opinion - have read a single thing written with any kind of intent to understand if this is really all you got out of any of it. Logical arguments and full reasoning of why this was a problem that had nothing to do with Dan Snyder were being discussed until you @bh32 brought him up in a post. When I saw that it appeared that your entire line of not being that concerned - not that big a deal were your words I believe - was that you wanted to defend Dan and the team so I called you out on it. If I misread that, then my mistake but that's how it read. But let me be as clear as I can possibly can be here. My dislike for Dan Snyder has zero - and I mean zero to do with my disgust with what apparently happened to these women. The only thing that involves him is if he knew about it did nothing and if he does nothing about it now. If all this is true - something I prefaced my statements with to start - They were told they were going to private resort for a private shoot. Then when they got there they had there passports taken from them - and then intimidated into doing things they did not want to do. This is at the very least intimidation and at the worst a form of false imprisonment. If this happened at my work with women I did not even know I would be just as outraged - and probably end up quitting my job as I would not want to work for someone who would condone such actions. And I know it's easier to keep trying to put things together that do not go together because you have no real argument otherwise - but women knowingly posing in a controlled environment and with their full consent is not the same as what apparently happened in this trip. It can be pretty frightening being in a foreign land - especially in countries where women have no rights. People just do not comprehend how scary it can be to be somewhere that does not have the same laws that we do. Where law enforcement are totally corrupt and are more likely to rape a woman than to help her. Not saying they are all that way but you never know which are going to be that way. I did this once but I will do this again - please talk to some females in your life, relatives, friends, co-workers and get their side of this. Sure, some will say no big deal. But it's because they have just decided to go along with it. I promise you the majority of women will be disgusted and can tell you better than I can why what apparently happened is indeed a big deal. @Rhazaghul If you truly believe people were attacking bh32, then you should report them so the mods can take appropriate actions. Some people have gotten an unplanned vacation already. However, I think what you see as attacking the person is really attacking the argument. That is fair game here. He made some ludicrous statements and was called on them. It's not mob mentality just because more think one way or the other. No one that I saw called him names or made any threats. Again, the Mods do a pretty damn good job of monitoring that and dishing out unplanned vacations so if they thought someone stepped over the line they will not hesitate to take action. As for the reasons for not liking Dan, we can take that to another thread. But I have verifiable facts and data to support every reason I have a problem with him. And it has nothing to do with the team on the field. If you want to go to a more appropriate thread to discuss I am more than willing. Just let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 explain how the women are treated goskins10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 39 minutes ago, Gibbit said: They most likely abstain from porn and meat. Yeah bro, we’re all just a bunch of squares in here. If I were you, I’d just leave and find another message board with cooler people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Yeah bro, we’re all just a bunch of squares in here. If I were you, I’d just leave and find another message board with cooler people. why? you guys want to push this sexual harassment ****, but who did it? how did they do it I'm not going to just accept your sjw guilty verdict Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Just now, Gibbit said: I'm not going to just accept your sjw guilty verdict Yeah, you’ll just blindly defend Dan and the gang, make some egregious generalizations, and condone the behavior instead. That’s very honorable of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said: Yeah, you’ll just blindly defend Dan and the gang, make some egregious generalizations, and condone the behavior instead. That’s very honorable of you. give me some facts that point to Snyder. All ive posted is about cheerleaders, their disputing claims and their director. You guys posting about Snyder or Allen are using conspiracy logic...because there is nothing else at the moment. Show me something real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 I've never met someone who used the term "SJW" derisively who wasn't an enormous asshole. Does that apply here? I have no idea, I don't know you guys. Your posts do not reflect well on you. And for the record, to the guy who quoted my previous post responding to bh32 and then went on and on about how I just hated Snyder--I did not once in that post mention Snyder, the team, or the FO. It was entirely about his post. You're projecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crabbypatty Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Cognitive dissonance. This thread has tons of it. Nothing has been proven or disproven, yet some of you are saying you feel like you did it, straw that broke the camel's back, etc. This place is full of drama queens just itching for a reason to be outraged. Some of you need some counseling or something. If it did happen, and girls were forced into something, then the offenders get punished and that is that. All this blustering and righteous indignation is ridiculous. Get some facts before judging and jumping to conclusions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 15 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said: I've never met someone who used the term "SJW" derisively (or really at all) who wasn't an enormous asshole. Does that apply here? I have no idea, I don't know you guys. Your posts do not reflect well on you. yeah sjws are kind of an amusment. youtube makes them funny Still its gone too far....maybe I'm insane....somebody let me know I'm not insane...its gone too far..this victim thing. I mean jesus I got picked on a lot growing up...can I join? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmandoug1 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Lots of paragraphs written without all of the facts..... Where have you guys been for the last.... I don'k know maybe 60 years. All of a sudden it's like they did what! The girls were forced to do what! Dan and Bruce did what! If the girls were forced to do anything they will hang those involved.... I would be very surprised if anyone was forced to do anything....peer pressure is a mother ****er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, Gibbit said: yeah sjws are kind of an amusment. youtube makes them funny Still its gone too far....maybe I'm insane....somebody let me know I'm not insane...its gone too far..this victim thing. I mean jesus I got picked on growing up...can I join? Yeah, and a significant number of us had parents who beat the crap out of us when we didn't do our homework or talked back. Should we all beat our kids because of what we and our parents and their parents experienced? Society learns and grows, the rules we agree to live by change and evolve. That's the nature of society. Because things have been ****ty for certain groups before doesn't justify things being ****ty in perpetuity. Its ****ed up beyond belief to refer to people wanting to be treated the same as everyone else and not be taken advantage of as "this victim thing". Edit: Obviously we don't know the details or facts of this specific case. I'm addressing the general world view that leads to some (mostly white dudes, if we're being honest) feeling this disdain for "SJW's". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playaction2Sanders Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 4 hours ago, NewCliche21 said: Well thank god because it wasn't. Not sure what your point was, then. Could you rephrase? Thought it was kinda self explanatory. Being a fan of this franchise for over 30 years and now having this kinda story associated with them. It feels personal, it's something you don't wanna ever be apart of despite yes I'm just a fan. You want everything involved with the franchise to be gravy, you can hate the owner's or gms for bad moves, love or hate players but you only want your franchise to make headlines due to whats going on on the field. Not because of BS like this. I feel dirty putting on the colors right now, and probably will for a while.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 yeah I got all that too. Its kind of why I look at this thing and shrug. whats the big deal.....uncomfortable? rub some dirt on it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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