NYT - Redskins Cheerleaders Describe Trip to Costa Rica that Crossed the Line

[samy316]

I hope to GOD these ladies sue the Redskins.  This story is despicable, and the team will suffer huge ramifications for this.  If this story is even 50% correct, then this is basically sex trafficking.  The passport thing takes this to a whole new level.

 

Heads are definitely going to roll for this, and I wouldn’t be shocked if the NFL launches its own investigation.  If this is as bad as the story makes it out to be, this could be the end of Dan Snyder as Redskins owner.  The climate today is NOT going to allow this to be brushed off to the side.  This might be worse than any domestic issue the NFL has had to endure, since this involves team employees.

[NewCliche21]

26 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm certain all the posters in here sticking up for women and denouncing treating them like sex objects, had nothing but respectful things to say about the calenders pictures when that thread came out. 

 

People can do what they want.  When your passport is taken and you're in a position of vulnerability, you can't do what you want.  It's coercion.  As I said before, it isn't that hard.

 

16 minutes ago, Alexa said:

What is the big deal? If these girls didn't want to pose nude then they shouldn't have.  Were they being forced to do all of this? Seems like a bunch of nonsense to me. Just quit and report it to the league. It didn't bother them until 5 years later? SMH, wake me up when training camp gets here. 

 

Found the guy who didn't read the article.

[Skinsinparadise]

5 hours ago, spjunkies said:

This has made it's way to the front page of cnn.com 

 

The whole narrative that many teams are dong close enough to the same thing .  The two articles posted here about other teams IMO aren't flattering but this Costa Rica narrative (if true) is much more flagrant IMO.  Telling cheerleader how to behave and objectifying them -- yeah those are stories that aren't flattering to teams but I don't see how they are even close to apples to apples to the Costa Rica story.  Unless, I am missing some of these stories out there by other clubs?  I'll look.  But I am gathering its not a coincidence that this story is catching fire more so than the other cheerleader stories. 

 

Here's the NY Times feature article I found on the subject about the NFL at large.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/07/sports/in-the-world-of-nfl-cheerleading-are-the-boos-getting-louder.html

[Koolblue13]

37 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

People can do what they want.  When your passport is taken and you're in a position of vulnerability, you can't do what you want.  It's coercion.  As I said before, it isn't that hard.

 

 

Found the guy who didn't read the article.

It's not that hard. My comment was about vulnerability and objectification of women and respect. I guess it just depends where you draw your line in the sand. 

 

If this happened in America and their careers and livelihoods were threatened, would it then be cool with you or is it not about passports? 

[Acworth skins fan]

As a father of two daughters I find this to be deplorable. As a man I find the big money people that went to Costa Rica disgusting. As a fan, it kills me what this once great franchise has become. Hope the NFL gets to the bottom of this and don’t brush it aside. And if Snyder did know about this, he IMO would have to go. 

[skins island connection]

I am probably wrong about this, but any incidents involving passports is an international offense of some form, isn't it?  Passports are recognized world-wide, and required for travel, so if they were 'seized ' it would be a big time screw-up by whomever did it. I'm guessing the cheerleaders were told to give them their passports to keep them from being stolen, but don't events like this have security teams that travel with them? They don't stay at dumps during these events, so it would seem that there were sufficient security measures in place, so there wouldn't have been a need to hand over passports.

 

 

And if so, that would involve the world court, and possibly a trial in the country where the actual crime was committed? There is a lot more to this than a couple ladies filing a claim. The CR government can easily become involved with this, being it happened on their soil. Every country has a different set of guidelines regarding law, and its a slow process. If this incident is all true, this could be a 2-3 year black eye for the organization.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm certain all the posters in here sticking up for women and denouncing treating them like sex objects, had nothing but respectful things to say about the calenders pictures when that thread came out. 

 

On the one hand, I get what you are saying and tend to agree in that we - mostly men - are not looking at the pictures thinking - it's horrible that she is being objectified. But for me the two things are completely different. On one hand they posed for the calendar in a private setting and in full control. It was their choice and they knew exactly what was going to happen. The other is they were taken to a remote resort in a foreign country and told it would be private, just the cheerleaders and those taking the pictures. Once there, they had their freedom taken away from them, followed by being intimidated into doing things they did not want to do with people they did not want to do them with. On top of that all these creepers were allowed to buy their way into what should have been a private part of the shoot. It's just two completely different situations. 

 

 

1 hour ago, Alexa said:

What is the big deal? If these girls didn't want to pose nude then they shouldn't have.  Were they being forced to do all of this? Seems like a bunch of nonsense to me. Just quit and report it to the league. It didn't bother them until 5 years later? SMH, wake me up when training camp gets here. 

 

Did you actually read the article? Never mind - that was rhetorical. Please do everyone a favor and before making any more clearly uninformed comments, read the article. This is so much more to this than posing nude or close to nude. They had their freedom taken from them and were intimidated into entertaining men that they did not want to spend time with and without the ability to just leave. 

 

 

To those that continue to say - "Why didn't they just quit and leave." I will have to assume by that uninformed statement you have never traveled outside the US, or if you have it was likely Canada or maybe Europe. In places like Asia, South America, and other such countries (yes, I have been to many of them - over 50 countries to date) if you try to leave without a passport you can get arrested. And when you get arrested in a country like Costa Rico without identification it can be years before you are let out. Your only hope is to somehow get word to the US Consulate in that country. If they let you then it can be fixed in a few days - especially if you have a printed copy of your passport either with you or at home where someone can send a copy (I do both). But they do not have to let you contact anyone. Other countries do not have to follow our laws - should be obvious but it seems it's not. 

 

Also, these are mostly women under 25 who do not have the travel experience to know what they can and cannot do. They are relying on the team to provide protection as well as it can, not do all they can to exploit them. 

 

If even half of this is true, I hope everyone involved loses their jobs and gets sued so even their kids owe money. This is one of the most reprehensible things I have ever heard of from what is suppose to be a sports franchise. I have stopped buying anything Redskins due to Dan Snyder's antics. I have also told my family to stop buying me anything until hopefully Snyder sells the team. 

 

 

BTW: I agree with @Bang at this point. Get rid of cheerleaders in pro-sports. College and below is different. They are actually cheering for the team. In pro-sports it's just selling sex, especially if your team does not have a good team. 

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm certain all the posters in here sticking up for women and denouncing treating them like sex objects, had nothing but respectful things to say about the calenders pictures when that thread came out. 

 

I think there is a difference between oogling at attractive women that willfully engage in swimsuit modeling vs. sending them to a foreign country, taking their passports and coercing them to escort old rich guys that pad the pockets of the team.

 

Believe it or not, it's possible to be sexually attracted to women and respect them at the same time.  This isn't a great spot to come riding in on your high horse.

[OVCChairman]

After sleeping on this, and thinking further about it.... It's just an odd situation as a whole.  It would appear that there are details that are 'gray' and I have to look at the writer of the article for the cause.  These young women were made to feel uncomfortable.  That in itself is the true issue, and I don't think the photo shoot is the problem, it's what went on with the 'sponsors' that caused the problem.  I for the life of me can't imagine that these ladies were 'forced' to pose topless without them having any sort of prior understanding that it would be a part of the shoot.  These young women when pursuing becoming a cheerleader are signing up to be looked at.  They have an understanding of that so I'd imagine the discomfort had nothing to do with the calendar, and it was all rooted back to having these random people viewing the process.... and from what I have heard the majority of which were men.  I haven't seen it documented, but based on the reports, the inclusion of these men as spectators was not a part of the original understanding.  To then trot them out into a night club as an 'escort' further pushed the level of discomfort, when that too was not a part of the disclosed itinerary.  

 

I also heard that these ladies had minimal cost coverage for the trip, which is a major question mark to me.  I've heard that they in fact paid for the swimsuits they were wearing... why?  Team sanctioned calendar... this was essentially a business trip, and further became a client shmooze session.  Speaking from a personal opinion, the cheerleaders have always been mistreated.  $75 per game?   Seriously?  

 

 

Bottom line, it's going to be a bad look for the franchise, and to make things worse for the people involved, we aren't even the ones that had a complaint filed against us.  This was all in response to two ladies that DID file a complaint with the league.... 

 

 

[samy316]

This was on the front page of the USA Today this morning:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2018/05/02/washington-redskins-daniel-snyder-owner-racist-sexist/574859002/

 

 

This is going to last for quite a while for this team.  The name issue, combined with this story is really going to be a black mark for Snyder & Co.  I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the team pays dearly for this.

[XtremeFan55]

Looks like Snyder is running a good ol’ boys club with the team just a front for their objectionable activities.   Looks like the FO is rotten from top to bottom.  We have read enough about Allen and Snyder.  Snyder’s sleazy method of making money to Allen drinking on the job to petty slandering of ex-employees.   But what about the minority owners...Dwight Schar and Fred Smith.  They had to have been involved and responsible for all of this also.  Schar I know about.  Owner of NV Homes.  A developer who wasn’t known to be a ‘boy scout’ to say the least.  And Fred Smith...founder of FedEx who once went to Las Vegas and bet the company money to keep the business going.  I wonder if these two are cut from the same cloth as Snyder since he seems to surround himself with similar sleazy people.  

 

Once upon a time this team had integrity and you could be proud of the organization back when Joe Gibbs ran the show in the 1980’s.  Gibbs set the example and we ended up with players like Art Monk...Darrell Green...Charles Mann...Tim Johnson...Monte Coleman...Ken Harvey...etc...  We won championships back then.  It all starts at the top.   Perfect example is Tom Coughlan’s influence down in Jacksonville. 

 

Man...have we fallen far in the past 20 plus years.  

 

 

[zoony]

Better question is why have cheerleaders at all.  By very definition, they are going to be sex objects.  The only remaining question is to what degree.

 

That said, the allegations in the article are beyond the pale.  Also, i have a hard time believing other clubs dont have this same issue

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, samy316 said:

This was on the front page of the USA Today this morning:

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/columnist/nancy-armour/2018/05/02/washington-redskins-daniel-snyder-owner-racist-sexist/574859002/

 

 

This is going to last for quite a while for this team.  The name issue, combined with this story is really going to be a black mark for Snyder & Co.  I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the team pays dearly for this.

 

One things for sure, someone or some people are going to end up fired over this.  Whether it's the right people or not is all that's in question.  As I said last night, it's egregious to me that the team would be so bold as to provide the press a generic statement in response to these accusations rather than at least make it appear as if they care about it, will look into it, etc. 

[Koolblue13]

16 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

I think there is a difference between oogling at attractive women that willfully engage in swimsuit modeling vs. sending them to a foreign country, taking their passports and coercing them to escort old rich guys that pad the pockets of the team.

 

Believe it or not, it's possible to be sexually attracted to women and respect them at the same time.  This isn't a great spot to come riding in on your high horse.

You can curb the condescending bs tone of your post, right? 

 

My point was where do you draw the line at objectification? 

 

People are hanging onto the point of taking their passports. They were at a resort. They could have easily gone to hotel management. Is doing this in CR different than doing it on a boat in the states? 

 

What if it happened at the stadium after a game? 

 

It's an interesting time for gender roles and they way men treat women. Cheerleaders are pointless. The bikini girl on the beer ad still sells beer though and you can find plenty of stories about models and cheerleaders being in situations like this. 

 

I think it's 1 in 6 women in America report being raped or sexually assaulted. People excuse a disease (toxic masculinity) and act mortified by the symptoms. 

18 minutes ago, zoony said:

Better question is why have cheerleaders at all.  By very definition, they are going to be sex objects.  The only remaining question is to what degree.

 

That said, the allegations in the article are beyond the pale.  Also, i have a hard time believing other clubs dont have this same issue

Agreed. 

[bakedtater1]

No wonder why the Bears have never had cheerleaders... The owner's wife didn't want them for this same reason..

[Renegade7]

27 minutes ago, zoony said:

Better question is why have cheerleaders at all.  By very definition, they are going to be sex objects.  The only remaining question is to what degree.

 

That said, the allegations in the article are beyond the pale.  Also, i have a hard time believing other clubs dont have this same issue

Agree whole-heartedly.  NFL has no right to get on their high horse about this if they knew about this and how this is a systematic problem.  That will be the next thing that comes out at some point, NFL knew and did NOTHING.

[OVCChairman]

11 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

NFL knew and did NOTHING.

 

 

the spectacle of pole dancers at Jerry's world should tell you all you need to know, and that facility has hosted a Superbowl, a Draft, and NUMEROUS NCAA  events... so this is nothing new.  The NFL knew about concussions and didn't make the information aware and look where we've gone with that.  These ladies knew what they were getting into with the photo shoot.... but not with the random men there to spectate, then 'escort' these same men to a night out on the town.... after having spent the day exposed to them.  

 

I keep seeing the word 'forced' in reference to the topless part of the shoot, but that doesn't seem right to me... 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

22 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

You can curb the condescending bs tone of your post, right? 

As someone who didn't even post in the cheerleader thread and has never so much as looked at a Skins cheerleader calendar, I found your comment to be condescending towards anyone who enjoyed the swimsuit photos.

 

22 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

My point was where do you draw the line at objectification? 

This is about more than objectification though.  I think it's obvious that the role of the cheerleaders is to be objectified.  But I also think they know that going in.  What they don't know going in is that they were going to be 'pimped' to sponsors and allow those same sponsors access to their changing area. 

 

My point was that it's possible to partake in willful objectification and still believe that the actions taken by the team are sleazy and wrong.

[Renegade7]

3 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

the spectacle of pole dancers at Jerry's world should tell you all you need to know, and that facility has hosted a Superbowl, a Draft, and NUMEROUS NCAA  events... so this is nothing new.  The NFL knew about concussions and didn't make the information aware and look where we've gone with that.  These ladies knew what they were getting into with the photo shoot.... but not with the random men there to spectate.  

 

I know, NFL is a bunch of hypocrites of the highest order. I don't agree that the women knew that the after-party was going to happen, otherwise, I believe a lot of them wouldn't of went to Costa Rica in the first place.  Most cheerleaders have other jobs and do this part-time.

 

If Goodell tries to get on his high horse against us on this to get ahead of the media without confirming what's going on on other teams, we should straight eviscerate the top of the NFL.  Wrong as we are on this particular case, we should sue the hell out of them if they try to come after us like we're the only ones doing this without confirming it, especially if the NFL knew about it. 

 

I hate the NFL more then I love football now.

[MarkB452]

16 hours ago, spjunkies said:

Somehow, this franchise finds ways to embarrass themselves on new levels. 

...losing off the field.  This is deplorable and sad.

[LadySkinsFan]

It's entitled men who want access to nearly naked and naked women. Not political but an observation that even Trump when he ran "beauty" pageants would deliberately go into dressing rooms to look at the nearly naked and naked women because he owned the pageant he bought the right of access.

 

Women have been and continue to be treated as objects instead of human beings, and the statement that they do this knowing what is expected is the example that women have been conditioned to expect to be treated as objects, to embrace this status, and then blame them for embracing this status, further reviling them. 

 

It's no different than knowing that girls and women are trafficked into the Superbowl city for prostitution. There's no big hew and cry about that either, but we all know what's going on there.

 

I fully agree that the cheerleaders need to go. 

[theTruthTeller]

I'm not having any trouble drawing a line here.  All of the cheerleaders knew that they'd be wearing skimpy uniforms in front of 60K fans for $100 a week.  They knew that they'd be expected to be abnormally fit.  I'm fairly sure that most of the cheerleaders thought that being in the calendar was an honor.  So I have no problem with that objectification.

 

Being told that you'll be someone's date for the night is something entirely different.  Not asked, told.  It's disgusting and it degrades the entire organization. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Wrong as we are on this particular case, we should sue the hell out of them if they try to come after us like we're the only ones doing this without confirming it, especially if the NFL knew about it. 

It's not a stretch at all to believe that other teams also take advantage of their cheerleaders.  However there are varying levels of sleaze and I don't think it's safe to dump all the issues in the same box.  As an example, the other stories I've read about other teams aren't good, but not on the same level as what's been detailed about the Redskins.

[Dissident2]

There's admittedly some gray in this whole issue when you start talking about the cheerleaders' overall purpose to begin with (arousing male fans), etc .

 

But when you get down to what is being claimed here by the cheerleaders, I see a lot of black and white specifics. 

 

For one thing, girls who are cheerleaders for the Redskins don't get paid. If they get anything, it's a pittance. This is not a full-time job. These are women who have other full-time positions in a variety of fields. They're not trying to support themselves by being one step away from pole dancers, in other words. Many if not most of them come from dancing backgrounds. They are athletic, and they are probably proud of their bodies. They do a lot of charity work. They often join the team as cheerleaders because they are legit fans and they actually feel like they're helping the team on gameday (I don't really think that, and I'd prefer the whole thing just be done away with, but that's just me.) A lot of them are just like this one here, a woman who's actually a physical therapist in her day job and has a doctorate.

 

http://www.redskins.com/videos/85th-Anniversary-Story-Erin-Ragan/742d19e1-600d-4869-a60c-330afddb41c0

 

It would definitely be ridiculous for any of these women to walk out on a field, do the sorts of dances they do, where they're bending over, grinding, etc., and then chastise people for being aroused by that and "treating them as objects." I totally agree with that. But this is different and goes beyond that. 

 

Being forced to change and to literally be naked during a photoshoot while a bunch of "premier season ticket holders" stand around and watch is truly demeaning. Being pressured into accompanying some old rich dude at some party or event as if you're his girlfriend for the night is demeaning and wrong. Some of the girls probably didn't care and maybe even enjoyed it. But clearly others found it humiliating, and they never should've been put in that position. 

 

So the whole, "Well, what did you say when you saw those calendar pictures" argument - as it relates to the specifics of this case - is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with how these women were treated and, imo, disrespected to their faces and during a trip that should've been a good experience for all of them. 

[Cooleyfan1993]

Haven’t read the article yet, but after seeing bits and pieces of people’s comments about what happened, wow. Horrible thing to do. Hopefully the league gets to the bottom of this, like most of you say.