NYT - Redskins Cheerleaders Describe Trip to Costa Rica that Crossed the Line

[LD0506]

No matter what happens on other teams and what the league does in response, the Skins are now officially the face of this horse****, thanks Dan!

 

So buh-bye to cheerleaders because of entitled assholes with more money than sense, this is why we can't have nice things.

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

It's not a stretch at all to believe that other teams also take advantage of their cheerleaders.  However there are varying levels of sleaze and I don't think it's safe to dump all the issues in the same box.  As an example, the other stories I've read about other teams aren't good, but not on the same level as what's been detailed about the Redskins.

I agree, I just don't have enough facts right now to decide who's head should truly roll.  I'm with @No Excuses, regardless of what else we find out and about other teams, I want an explanation on why their passports were taken which prevented them from leaving if they wanted to.  That has nothing to do with cheerleading.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Terrible stuff, but not surprising.  I don't put anything past this organization.  Losing on the field, sleazy culture overall.  Just not well run from top to bottom.

 

I'd love to see Snyder have to sell but I am not sure if this is the thing that makes it happen, unless, as mentioned, there's absolute proof that he knew about this.  It's easy to sit back and say "OF COURSE HE KNEW, HE OWNS THE TEAM" but that's not necessarily living in reality.  Not every business owner knows every single thing that happens in their organization.  That cheerleader team lead should be fired immediately, I don't believe her at all.

 

Nothing wrong with hoping for it, though. 

 

I feel terrible for the cheerleaders that endured that, I can't imagine traveling with a group of people and having our passports rounded up and taken from us right after we arrive.  That's some truly scary ****.  It's a step or two away from human trafficking which is one of the most disgusting things a human can do to another human.  

 

I'd also like to see the men who paid to see them pose topless called out and exposed.  Seriously, go to a strip club if that's what you need.  I'm a photographer, I work with models, I'd be absolutely livid if there were people on my set that had no business being there if I was shooting something like swimsuit or implied nudity.  

 

My fear is that this blows over.  Snyder is great at riding out waves of controversy.  He stoked the fires for the name issue by saying that he'll never change it, but when the blowback got really intense from it he didn't make any more statements about it.  Yeah, the team conducted their own polls and got Native Americans to say the name is fine but Snyder stayed out of the spotlight.  

 

I think this dies down after awhile, let's be honest no one around here was championing cheerleader issues for other teams.  Granted, none of the other teams seem to have anything this seedy going on.

 

Like I said, nothing wrong with hoping though.  

 

 

[OVCChairman]

15 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

It's entitled men who want access to nearly naked and naked women. Not political but an observation that even Trump when he ran "beauty" pageants would deliberately go into dressing rooms to look at the nearly naked and naked women because he owned the pageant he bought the right of access.

 

Women have been and continue to be treated as objects instead of human beings, and the statement that they do this knowing what is expected is the example that women have been conditioned to expect to be treated as objects, to embrace this status, and then blame them for embracing this status, further reviling them. 

 

It's no different than knowing that girls and women are trafficked into the Superbowl city for prostitution. There's no big hew and cry about that either, but we all know what's going on there.

 

I fully agree that the cheerleaders need to go. 

 

 

I want to have an open dialogue here, and I hope you don't think I'm attacking your viewpoint.. because in large part I do agree with you.  I just want to bring up the point that society as a WHOLE objectifies people... not just men.  Why do you think movies like Magic Mike and 50 Shade of Gray are so popular with women?  Why firefighter calendars are so highly sought after?  The status is embraced across all aspects of pop culture and as the old term says 'sex sells."  Cheerleaders are essentially volunteers that try out for these positions.  Most sports have them, and from what I understand, it's a job they apply for... a job that does not compensate them enough to make it appear that it's their only means of putting food on the table.  Wearing skimpy outfits, doing calendar shoots with minimal clothing, getting dolled up to go to events for fill in the blank organization and essentially look pretty.  They're job is to be an attraction, and they know it.  They're not competitive dancers who are fighting to make a living. 

 

I'm not trying to say that they don't deserve to be respected, or that they deserve to be treated poorly, because they don't.  In fact, they deserve to be more respected because of the athletic ability, as well as showmanship they apply in order to be entertaining.

 

Like I said earlier, the random men being around watching the process is unacceptable, then to encourage them to take these same men essentially on a date just makes it worse.  That is where I have the major problem with this whole situation.... and I feel THAT is the only true complaint we can have with it.  What was done was WRONG, but it's a hard case to make against the calendar as whole... 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

There may be a loophole on the passport issue.

 

If the Skins have you sign a contract upon employment and in that contract it mentions that you agree to surrender your passport to the team during international travel, and you sign that contract, then by definition you are handing them over voluntarily and are not being forced to do so...well, unless you refuse to do so even after signing a contract stating you would. Again, this article doesn't investigate anything, so it's impossible to say.

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, zoony said:

Better question is why have cheerleaders at all.  By very definition, they are going to be sex objects.  The only remaining question is to what degree.

 

That said, the allegations in the article are beyond the pale.  Also, i have a hard time believing other clubs dont have this same issue

 

Cheerleading does open up other avenues for the women who do it though. Other modelling jobs and careers can come from it. So I would hate to take that opportunity away from them. They do it because they like to do it. And for those that say they are "not cheering for the team" you must have never attended a game. I have seen the MAJORITY of cheerleaders going absolutely nuts when big plays happen or we score. They are FANS of the team as well. 

[Burgold]

OVC's not wrong. The job of a cheerleader is to be a fantasy. Now, that doesn't mean there aren't lines, but they are hired specifically to be objectified. The key, though, is the word "fantasy" Fantasy is about imagination. The moment they try to force anyone to live the reality of their fantasy (and that person objects) then the dynamic shifts and it can become a problem.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Cheerleading does open up other avenues for the woman who do it though. Other modelling jobs and careers can from it. So I would hate to take that opportunity away from them. They do it because they like to do it. And for those that say they are "not cheering for the team" you must have never attended a game. I have seen the MAJORITY of cheerleaders going absolutely nuts when big plays happen or we score. They are FANS of the team as well. 

 

They're also supposed to be ambassadors and representatives of the team, which is why they do the charity events and visit hospitals (which they also seem to love doing). I personally wouldn't give a rat's ass if cheerleaders were eliminated from the game, but they are definitely more than T&A for pervy men.

[Renegade7]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

There may be a loophole on the passport issue.

 

If the Skins have you sign a contract upon employment and in that contract it mentions that you agree to surrender your passport to the team during international travel, and you sign that contract, then by definition you are handing them over voluntarily and are not being forced to do so...well, unless you refuse to do so even after signing a contract stating you would. Again, this article doesn't investigate anything, so it's impossible to say.

 

That's like saying "selling my soul" was in the fine print and I agreed to it so it isn't wrong.  Surrendering your passport should not be required, I don't understand why they did that.

[XtremeFan55]

The league cannot ignore this especially now with the #metoo movement going on.  The backlash over this will grow exponentially and eventually result in either a higher up official being fired as the scapegoat...Allen...or Snyder forced to sell the team like Richardson.  This will NOT go away.

 

One has to also consider the additional motive based on the team name.  People who have been trying to get Snyder to drop ‘Redskins” will look at this as the opportunity to not only get Snyder to sell the team but also as a chance for the name to change.

 

There is blood in the water and the sharks are getting ready for a frenzy.

 

Snyder has got to be scared out of his mind...not only because of the bad pr...but also because his wealth is totally tied up with the paper value of the team, stadium and training facility.

 

The overriding sad thing about all this is...instead of focusing on football...the team has to fight another pr battle which will take up most of the time of the FO from here on in....

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just now, Renegade7 said:

 

That's like saying "selling my soul" was in the fine print and I agreed to it so it isn't wrong.  Surrendering your passport should not be required, I don't understand why they did that.

 

More companies and corporations do that than you realized (and that i realized lol)...as an independent contractor myself, it's never a good explanation or excuse to say "Well, I didn't read the fine print before agreeing to the contract"...like it or not, it would have been the cheerleader's responsibility to understand and know exactly what they were agreeing to when they signed the contract. But again, not even sure the Skins did this, but it's a possibility.

[XtremeFan55]

25 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

There may be a loophole on the passport issue.

 

If the Skins have you sign a contract upon employment and in that contract it mentions that you agree to surrender your passport to the team during international travel, and you sign that contract, then by definition you are handing them over voluntarily and are not being forced to do so...well, unless you refuse to do so even after signing a contract stating you would. Again, this article doesn't investigate anything, so it's impossible to say.

Won’t fly in court.  It would be coercion in this case.   These cheerleaders are no match against seasoned older men running the FO and any lawyer would be licking his chops right now to go after the Redskins.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, XtremeFan55 said:

Coercion doesn’t fly in court.   These cheerleaders are no match against seasoned older men running the FO and any lawyer would be licking his chops right now to go after the Redskins.

 

It's not coercion if they agree to surrendering their passports before even working one second for the company. And ignorance of the law doesn't fly in court, either.

 

 

[XtremeFan55]

7 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

It's not coercion if they agree to surrendering their passports before even working one second for the company. And ignorance of the law doesn't fly in court, either.

 

 

If that were the case then Keith Reniere would be free since all participants in his sex cult acted willingly....supposedly...

 

Same thing with the women at NBC feeling the pressure to sign the petition to support Brokaw.  

 

In both cases the ‘victims’ acted willingly but under presumed pressure.   The courts just have to prove coercion

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, XtremeFan55 said:

If that were the case then Keith Reniere would be free since all participants in his sex cult acted willingly....supposedly...

 

Same thing with the women at NBC feeling the pressure to sign the petition to support Brokaw.  

 

In both cases the ‘victims’ acted willingly under presumed pressure.   The courts just have to prove coercion

 

Did Reniere have the women sign some legally binding contract that could be enforced in court?

 

Did the women at NBC sign the petition in support of Brokaw before even working one minute at NBC?

 

If the answer to both of those is "no", then it's apples to oranges.

[theTruthTeller]

7 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said:

...

There is blood in the water and the sharks are getting ready for a frenzy.

 

Snyder has got to be scared out of his mind...not only because of the bad pr...but also because his wealth is totally tied up with the paper value of the team, stadium and training facility.

...

Not just Snyder.  I imagine that most or all of the 9 men were married, as well as some of the coerced cheerleaders.  It's just a matter of time before names, and company names, come out.

 

I'm more amazed at the lack of foresight than the lack of morals.  Stories like this go away when reporters deem that digging deeper won't yield headlines.  I don't think we're anywhere close to reaching that point.

[Alexa]

3 hours ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

People can do what they want.  When your passport is taken and you're in a position of vulnerability, you can't do what you want.  It's coercion.  As I said before, it isn't that hard.

 

 

Found the guy who didn't read the article.

I read the article. All they had to do was say no. Being a Redskins cheerleader isn't a career job. They all should have said no, give me my passport back. Are these women so weak that they're going to be intimidated by a director of a cheerleading team? I just don't get that. I would have told that person to F off, I quit. Or F off I'm taking this to the league office. Now it's a big deal 5 years later?   Also how is it Snyder's fault? Everyone assumes he has his hands in everything. I seriously doubt he was telling the director of cheerleading to make the cheerleaders take their tops off and go out w/ sponsors. 

 

As far as the passports, obviously the director was trying to play tough. But do these girls have any common sense? Is a director of cheerleading really going to leave a cheerleader behind in Costa Rica cause she didn't obey orders to go out to a club w/ a sponsor? Please. That would never ever happen. 

 

I'm not saying there isn't blame. The director should be fired and move on. No need to take this to the Supreme Court. No need to try and turn this into something it's not. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

8 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

It's not coercion if they agree to surrendering their passports before even working one second for the company. And ignorance of the law doesn't fly in court, either.

Ignorance of the law can fly in court.  I work for one of the biggest banks in the country in litigation and watch folks get over on the bank due to things like ignorance of law on a daily basis.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Ignorance of the law can fly in court.  I work for one of the biggest banks in the country in litigation and watch folks get over on the bank due to things like ignorance of law on a daily basis.

 

Can you describe some examples?

[XtremeFan55]

Think about this.  What is Costa Rico famous for?  A place where anything goes.  Reason why it became a popular Spring Break location.  Add the adults-only resort and you don’t have to be very intelligent to put 2 and 2 together.  A bachelor party weekend for influential sponsors complete with cheerleaders.  SMH.  

 

I still have that video of Snyder bowling with RG3 permanently branded in my brain and it is fitting since it fits with the picture of an owner who never grew up.  

[youngestson]

 

Saw the headline with no information on Yahoo, and I just knew it HAD to be the Redskins. Just fire the people who set it up and get rid of cheerleaders already. God bless em' I'm sure there are nice people, but they add nothing to the game day experience and are a liability in this day and age. 

 

The last thing we need is yet ANOTHER blow to the reputation of the organization.

[Renegade7]

25 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

More companies and corporations do that than you realized (and that i realized lol)...as an independent contractor myself, it's never a good explanation or excuse to say "Well, I didn't read the fine print before agreeing to the contract"...like it or not, it would have been the cheerleader's responsibility to understand and know exactly what they were agreeing to when they signed the contract. But again, not even sure the Skins did this, but it's a possibility.

In some countries, keeping the passport is illegal and for damn good reason.  United States shouldn't not be allowing that, places like Germany and UAE know what time it, why don't we?  

[Gurgeh]

14 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

It's not coercion if they agree to surrendering their passports before even working one second for the company. And ignorance of the law doesn't fly in court, either.

 

 

 

Without being an expert in the law, I was under the impression that there are some rights you cannot sign away in a contract. It shouldn't be assumed that just because it's in a contract it's legally binding.

 

That said, this is about more than legal wordplay and even if it turns out the organisation has done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law, the people responsible should be ashamed of themselves.

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

2 minutes ago, Gurgeh said:

 

Without being an expert in the law, I was under the impression that there are some rights you cannot sign away in a contract. It shouldn't be assumed that just because it's in a contract it's legally binding.

 

That said, this is about more than legal wordplay and even if it turns out the organisation has done nothing wrong in the eyes of the law, the people responsible should be ashamed of themselves.

 

 

yeah, but I was responding to a legal comment, not a moral one.

[theTruthTeller]

2 minutes ago, youngestson said:

 

Saw the headline with no information on Yahoo, and I just knew it HAD to be the Redskins. Just fire the people who set it up and get rid of cheerleaders already. God bless em' I'm sure there are nice people, but they add nothing to the game day experience and are a liability in this day and age. 

I'm pretty sure that they do add value, that's why we have cheerleaders.  In fact, I can remember that a few years ago, cheerleader comparisons were a weekly event on ES.

4 minutes ago, youngestson said:

The last thing we need is yet ANOTHER blow to the reputation of the organization.

Too late, the damage has already been done.  And getting rid of the cheerleaders now won't change anything other than reinforce the notion that the leadership is so lame that they can't even manage cheerleaders without someone pimping them out.