Who should be Starting RB in 2018??? (Public Poll)

[OVCChairman]

6 hours ago, 98ORAKPO98 said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/19/trent-williams-vouches-adrian-peterson/

 

“I don’t understand the stigma when people get 31, 32, 33 — they somehow just slow down?” Williams said. “You don’t. That’s a gifted athlete, you know? He has a gift. Did Darrell Green ever lose his speed? He didn’t. Some things are just always with you. It’s you, it’s your makeup, it’s your DNA. … So, no, he’s the same athlete that you’re used to seeing.

 

“He hasn’t slowed down a step.”

 

Its not always about straight ahead speed.  It's reaction time.  It's lateral change of direction, then re-acceleration.  It's mental vision.  I don't KNOW if A.P. still has it... and I guess the Redskins will get a look at him today.  He may be a good option as a rotational / backup.  We also tried this type of thing with Shawn Alexander.  Darrell Green was a freak of nature.  He still ran a 4.4 when he was 42 years old, but he'd probably be the first to tell you that he couldn't do it anymore.  For every guy who CAN play late in their career... there are COUNTLESS guys who cant.  A.P. MIGHT be able to get it done and be effective, but the odds are not at all in his favor.  

[bobandweave]

13 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Actually, it does jive. When you have a guy like Hunt or Gurley or Bell, they are in there............................ a lot. The top 7 guys are close to 300 attemps, and the only reason Zeke wasn't (he wasn't) was for the 4 game suspention. You get a bell cow, and teams are going to ride it. Ingram wasn't either, but he had Kamara, who could be one of those guys if he was on a different team. Teams that don't have a stud, use situational RB's.

 

So you mentioned the top 7 guys in the league as bellcow RBs, which is only a quarter of the teams out there.

 

Truth is only one rb last season rushed more then 300 times for his team and only 18 RBs (just two over just half the leagues teams) even had 200 carries for the season.

 

That’s a stark decline from years past and shows that most teams (I didn’t say all of them) are using multiple RBs in committee form including this team. The days of bellcow backs is long over

 

Quote

Now, it's possible we different definitions here.

 

Bellcows are RBs who get almost all of the carries on the team they play and don’t share carries with anyone else. These have become dinosaurs

 

Quote

I'd call Alf a bellcow, even if Thompson was in a significant number of snaps, due to alf not being much of a pass catcher and Thompson, not being able to handle too many carries. You might call that RBBC. I would not. RBBC is to me, like 3 guys getting 150+carries and not because guys got hurt.

 

No teams out there rush for 450 carries like that.

 

I would call Alf a six year ago memory and nothing significant or worth talking about anymore and not even sure why he was mentioned

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

1 hour ago, RawRebel said:

What about Frank Gore?

 

OK that's 2.  I'll see your Frank Gore and raise you Emmitt Smith, Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker and virtually every other running back in NFL history.  

[SkinsGuy]

8 hours ago, LetMeSeeYourWarFace21 said:

 

Not to mention that yeah, he's most likely an upgrade to what we have. But he hasn't done **** in this league to be demanding starting spots. **** you and the team you came from. 

 

Yeah, if this guy simply wants a free starting job without earning it, we don't need that here. Even if he can be an upgrade.

 

Might be getting a good idea why the giants let him walk.

[Skinsinparadise]

1. 3
2. Chris Rye‏ @Chrisrye88 1m1 minute ago

   More

   AP in the house!

   

[CTskin]

AP in Skins gear... Is it protocol for a visitor to wear the team's attire?

 

I'd prefer Charles to AP because I'd really like to avoid the fumbleitis that's been killing this team. Charles looked pretty damn good last year and AP had some real clunkers. He's also more dynamic as he has the ability to catch the ball out of the backfield. There is the injury history, but being that he will likely be splitting with Perine or Kelley (one will likely be cut), he should be able to hold up. Regardless, I'll take either player at this point.

[Darth Tater]

Well, obviously it cannot be someone who gets 25+ yard runs as everyone who does for us seems to get injured.

[Morneblade]

4 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

Its not always about straight ahead speed.  It's reaction time.  It's lateral change of direction, then re-acceleration.  It's mental vision.  I don't KNOW if A.P. still has it... and I guess the Redskins will get a look at him today.  He may be a good option as a rotational / backup.  We also tried this type of thing with Shawn Alexander.  Darrell Green was a freak of nature.  He still ran a 4.4 when he was 42 years old, but he'd probably be the first to tell you that he couldn't do it anymore.  For every guy who CAN play late in their career... there are COUNTLESS guys who cant.  A.P. MIGHT be able to get it done and be effective, but the odds are not at all in his favor.  

 

Look at last years tape. It's been posed here. You can't tell whether he has the speed anymore, but his vision and quickness are still there.

 

4 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

So you mentioned the top 7 guys in the league as bellcow RBs, which is only a quarter of the teams out there.

 

Truth is only one rb last season rushed more then 300 times for his team and only 18 RBs (just two over just half the leagues teams) even had 200 carries for the season.

 

That’s a stark decline from years past and shows that most teams (I didn’t say all of them) are using multiple RBs in committee form including this team. The days of bellcow backs is long over

 

 

Bellcows are RBs who get almost all of the carries on the team they play and don’t share carries with anyone else. These have become dinosaurs

 

 

No teams out there rush for 450 carries like that.

 

I would call Alf a six year ago memory and nothing significant or worth talking about anymore and not even sure why he was mentioned

 

 

 

You do realize that the big time running back is coming back in vogue? Do you pay attention to the amount ot RB's not only being taken int he first round, but in the top 5? I'll be the first one to point out, the NFL got away from that for awhile. I think they made a mistake. But in the last few years, they are coming off high and fast, and the teams that get them get a lot better.

 

Long over? No, there is a resurgence coming. Everyone got pass-happy and pass defense happy, and forgot about being physical, running the ball, and stopping the run. Now, that tide is turning.

[Skin'emAlive]

3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

OK that's 2.  I'll see your Frank Gore and raise you Emmitt Smith, Shaun Alexander, Larry Johnson, Willie Parker and virtually every other running back in NFL history.  

 

Shaun Alexander had a ridiculous OL during his prime. Emmitt wasnt that bad in Arizona, butthe team was going nowhere. Willie Parker was a speedster that lost his speed. Larry Johnson... also had one of the great LT LG combos of his generation.

 

Heres a few more old heads that produced late into their prime:

 

Jamal Lewis

Corey Dillon

Fred Taylor

Stephen Davis

[OVCChairman]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Look at last years tape. It's been posed here. You can't tell whether he has the speed anymore, but his vision and quickness are still there.

 

 

 

 

In all honesty I haven't see his tape, so like I said, I dont know.  I was just referring to Williams' quote about 'losing his speed' that it's A  LOT deeper than that.  I HOPE AP has it.  I HOPE that ANY RB has it and we can get them.... they rush for 1200 yards and we're a playoff team... If it's AP.. then GREAT.  

[Skin'emAlive]

I think my point was that there are multiple vet running backs that are well past their glory years that played exceptionally well. But it requires the right scheme and a good line. I am not sure if our running scheme has been all that good since Shanahan, but we have invested a good bit in OL this past offseason. We also are looking for a guy to run 1st and 2nd down, as well as short yardage and goal line situations. A guy like AP would do well in that role. What he would not do well in, is a team that plays best when they let the QB go into gunslinger mode ( New Orleans) in shotgun a large majority of the time, or a team that had the OL decimated (Arizona).

[Malapropismic Depository]

35 minutes ago, CTskin said:

AP in Skins gear... Is it protocol for a visitor to wear the team's attire?

 

 

AP WANTS to be here. That could be the reason. It's just a matter of whether the Skins feel the same way.

1 - He's friends with TW.

2 - Immediately after the first, not the second, preseason game, when Guice was hurt, he texted TW and told him he was "healthy and ready to go".

With AP initiating that to the Redskins, that sure does not only include a readiness, but a desire to play for this team, which is equivalent to eagerly submitting a job application.

[Morneblade]

10 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

In all honesty I haven't see his tape, so like I said, I dont know.  I was just referring to Williams' quote about 'losing his speed' that it's A  LOT deeper than that.  I HOPE AP has it.  I HOPE that ANY RB has it and we can get them.... they rush for 1200 yards and we're a playoff team... If it's AP.. then GREAT.  

 

I'm not expecting 1200 from AP. I'm not expecting him to be a break away back anymore. The only things I really want are his cutting and vision. There are better than anything we have here. And then, I'm still looking over the waiver wire after final cuts. I don't expect him to be the AP of old, but even a old AP, going by what he did last season is still better than anyone we have right now.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Scheff says Skins won't do it

 

 

[OVCChairman]

4 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I'm not expecting 1200 from AP. I'm not expecting him to be a break away back anymore. The only things I really want are his cutting and vision. There are better than anything we have here. And then, I'm still looking over the waiver wire after final cuts. I don't expect him to be the AP of old, but even a old AP, going by what he did last season is still better than anyone we have right now.

 

 

i know, it was a bit of rhetoric on my part regarding my 'hope.'  

If AP could come in and give us 100 carries for 450 yards, I'd say that would be more realistic.  Between the rotational ability of Perine / Kelley and how often we'll likely have Thompson lined up in the backfield, I don't see him going for anywhere NEAR 'bellcow' type numbers.

[Guardshock]

We could use a guy like this on our team..

 

 

[redskinss]

11 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Scheff says Skins won't do it

That doesn't make much sense to me. 

He said the skins want a back to get them ready for the regular season but don't want a veteran right now.

I get what he's trying to say.

He thinks they just want a guy to take snaps not a veteran for a couple meaningless pre season games but if they want a back to be ready for the regular season they better bring him in now. 

Maybe bring in two,  one veteran and and one camp body. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

The last time a RB that was the age of AP, ran for 1000 yards, it was for the Redskins.

[OVCChairman]

2 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

The last time a RB that was the age of AP, ran for 1000 yards, it was for the Redskins.

 

 

to be fair, I don't think that's a realistic expectation for him if we were to bring him in here.  He'd likely be a rotational backup that could see 12-15 snaps per game... touching the ball maybe 8 times between runs and receptions.  

[OVCChairman]

 

 

interesting....

[bobandweave]

16 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

You do realize that the big time running back is coming back in vogue?

 

Really? Since you like to speak in these generalities that fly in the face of what's real and what's not let's stick to facts and not your opinion please.

 

I already informed you that only 18 total RBs had 200 or more carries last season. So everyone knows who they were:

 

Le'Veon Bell - 2nd round pick 2013
LeSean McCoy - 2nd round pick 2009
Melvin Gordon - 1st round pick 2015
Todd Gurley - 1st round pick 2015
Jordan Howard - 5th round pick 2016
Kareem Hunt - 3rd round pick 2017
Leonard Fournette - 1st round pick 2017
Frank Gore - 3rd round pick 2005

C.J. Anderson - Not Drafted
Ezekiel Elliott - 1st round pick 2016
Carlos Hyde - 2nd round pick 2014
Lamar Miller - 4th round pick 2012
Mark Ingram - 1st round pick 2011
Latavius Murray - 6th round pick 2013
Alex Collins - 6th round pick 2016
Jay Ajayi - 5th round pick 2015
Marshawn Lynch - 1st round pick 2007
Isaiah Crowell - Not Drafted

 

1. Four of these men are playing for new teams in 2018

 

2. Of the draft rounds the NFL had 6 first round picks, 3 second round picks,  2 third round picks, 1 fourth round pick, 2 fifth round picks, 2 sixth round picks, and 2 not drafted players rush for over 200 carries last year. 2/3rd of the RBs to accomplish that 200 carry threshold were not first round picks. 

 

3. Last point about this. Here is the list of all time carry per season list for RB's: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_att_single_season.htm, of the top 100 players on this list, only 5 times has a player this decade (2010-2017) made the list. That is compared to the 2000-2009 decade where they had 40 players make that list, compared to the 1990-1999 decade where they had 27 players make the list, and the 1980-1989 decade where they had 22 men make the list. Over the years the trend has gone up in the 2000 decade and embarrassingly low this current decade. 

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/leaders/rush_att_single_season.htm

 

16 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

Do you pay attention to the amount ot RB's not only being taken int he first round, but in the top 5? I'll be the first one to point out, the NFL got away from that for awhile. I think they made a mistake. But in the last few years, they are coming off high and fast, and the teams that get them get a lot better.

 

Really a lot better? Here is the reality of this situation:

 

2010-Present: The number of RBs taken in the first round period - 15 Total. Of those RBs taken in the first round the number of top 5 drafted players is 4

2000-2009: The number of RBs taken in the first round period - 32 Total. Of those RBs taken in the first round the number of top 5 drafted players is 6

1990-1999: The number of RBs taken in the first round period - 34 Total. Of those RBs taken in the first round the number of top 5 drafted players is 6

 

The overall number of RBs taken in the first round has drastically decreased over the past decade. 

The overall number of RBs taken in the top 5 picks in the Draft has decreased this decade. 

The trends are not what you think they are

http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?position=RB&type=position

 

Maybe you need to pay attention since your hot-takes are not correct and argue with me less? 

 

[Idaho fan]

Some nice looking runs by AP in that high light reel.  Granted its "highlights" but he appears to have something left in the tank and some desire IMO.  Would Kelly or Perine have made those plays in the same circumstance?  Who knows... but he doesn't look washed up to me.

 

Having said that I think Id opt for a younger guy that might be a bit hungrier with a little less wear... Darkwa, Charcandrick West....

[bedlamVR]

I do think this is due diligence kind of looking - See who still has it and who could be brought in if say Perine cannot go - There will be some interesting names come cut down day who are going to be just as interesting - Or if someone is on the bubble then maybe a trade might be  on the cards 

 

[NoCalMike]

Elite players will likely always carry the potential for some elite play in small does all the way until they retire. AP, while never likely to be a team's workhorse RB ever again, can probably still offer some quality carries during games.  What it will come down to is whether this coaching staff feels what he still has to offer is a good fit with what the team has now.  AP isn't going to be signed to be the feature back.  Now the team could always get lucky and he turns out to have much more left in the tank than previously thought. That would be great, but it isn't what he would be relied upon for.

 

This sort of reminds me of the Vernon Davis signing. The season prior to signing here, (and even his last year in SF where he got injured) Davis seemed to be done. He was virtually a ghost on the Broncos roster. I assumed he was mostly signed to be a mentor to Jordan Reed and would be sort of an occasional target in the red zone due his size.  Well all of a sudden the season starts and dude is running like he never missed a beat and while he can't take on the workload that he could in his prime, his valuable to this team has been immense.

[Idaho fan]

27 minutes ago, NoCalMike said:

 

This sort of reminds me of the Vernon Davis signing. The season prior to signing here, (and even his last year in SF where he got injured) Davis seemed to be done. He was virtually a ghost on the Broncos roster. I assumed he was mostly signed to be a mentor to Jordan Reed and would be sort of an occasional target in the red zone due his size.  Well all of a sudden the season starts and dude is running like he never missed a beat and while he can't take on the workload that he could in his prime, his valuable to this team has been immense.

 

Great point... Maybe lightning can strike twice with the Skins and an AP/J. Charles....