WP - Serial Bomber Terrorizing Austin, Texas

[LadySkinsFan]

I've said it before, if people are terrorized it's a terrorist attack.

[LD0506]

[Elessar78]

1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said:

I've said it before, if people are terrorized it's a terrorist attack.

Not exactly? I think there has to be a political angle for it to be considered "terrorism" (I could def be wrong). 

[Spaceman Spiff]

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/zuckerberg-facebook-cambridge-analytica_us_5ab26e91e4b008c9e5f3584d

 

 

[Renegade7]

12 minutes ago, Elessar78 said:

Not exactly? I think there has to be a political angle for it to be considered "terrorism" (I could def be wrong). 

It's a tough thing to define from what I've read before about it.  In my eye, the Vegas shooter counts even though we have no idea why he did it.

[PleaseBlitz]

Terrorism definition, from the official United States Code of Federal Regulations:

 

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=ce2da141510b794b4383c9c7a6a4b435&mc=true&node=se28.1.0_185&rgn=div8

 

Quote

Terrorism includes the unlawful use of force and violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof, in furtherance of political or social objectives.

 

"in furtherance of political or social objectives" seems like the limiting factor, but social objectives could mean a lot of things. 

[Destino]

1 hour ago, LadySkinsFan said:

I've said it before, if people are terrorized it's a terrorist attack.

Then terrorism becomes nothing more than a longer word for scary, and a whole bunch of stuff that no one would consider terrorism is now terrorism.  Gang violence?  Scares people, so it's now Terrorism.  Drug dealers?  Scary, now terrorists.  

 

Terrorism is politically motivated violence.  It doesn't mean that a crime is more serious than others.  It doesn't mean that it's worse than others.  When environmental terrorists damage construction equipment because they don't want the state to allow a new ski resort, that's terrorism.  No one goes to bed afraid over that and the national media probably wouldn't even care to mention it.  It's still terrorism.  

 

I think the confusion stems from recent major terrorist attacks and the media coverage.  They blew themselves up, shot people, ran people over etc. and the media likes to focus on that aspect.  The acts themselves.  They spent far less time diving into who ISIS is, what they want, and what they do.  The most we'd get is a mention that these people were "connected" to one group or another.  So people now identify terrorism as the violence, or connections to groups, instead of the motives involved.

 

[Springfield]

2 hours ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

 

I think you'd just **** with people all day.  That's what I'd do.

 

I'm trying A1 on a burger next time.  That sounds good.

 

Can confirm.  Is good.

[tshile]

2 hours ago, LD0506 said:

 

We should ban bombs

Not just stop sales and production but confiscate them as well.

[mark327]

A-1 in a burger. Equal yummy 

I often use A-1 or 57 when making my stuffed cheddar cheese burgers. 

[tshile]

11 minutes ago, Destino said:

The acts themselves.  They spent far less time diving into who ISIS is, what they want, and what they do.

Which is a shame. We are very uneducated when it comes to the whole thing.

 

 

[Springfield]

Just now, mark327 said:

A-1 in a burger. Equal yummy 

I often use A-1 or 57 when making my stuffed cheddar cheese burgers. 

 

Worchestershire, for me.

[twa]

Just now, Springfield said:

 

Worchestershire, for me.

 

And Picante sauce

[SoulSkin]

Hopefully this guys room mates will be able to shed some light on what his major malfunction was. Also, Pickapeppa > A1 or Worcestershire. 

[Larry]

Recalling that, way back when we declared war on terrorism, I posted a poll in Tailgate, under the thread title "What is Terrorism?"  

 

Seemed like a good idea, if we were going to declare war on it, to agree on what it is that we're fighting.  

 

I created a poll, of the "check all that apply" type, and listed several acts that, I thought, might or might not be terrorism.  

 

I intentionally tried to pick things that were "grey areas".  Didn't see much point in asking if 9/11 was terrorism, for example.  Wanted things people could argue over.  Options that I could remember included:  

 

* Blowing up an (empty) abortion clinic

* Blowing up an occupied abortion clinic.

* Burning down an (under construction) housing addition.  

* Trucker's strike.  Suspending a black-painted cinder block from an overpass, at truck windshield height.  

* A drug dealer kills the family of someone who he thinks might testify against him.  

* Blowing up a car bomb at a security checkpoint in Iraq.  

* Burning a cross in somebody's lawn.

 

One of the things that really surprised me, about the results, was the lack of consensus on any of the options.  I figured that some of the options would have 90% agreement that (whatever act) was or wasn't terrorism.  But instead, I don't think any option had less that 20% saying it was terrorism.  And none had more than 60% voting yes.  

 

One other surprising thing to me.  Every person who tried to define terrorism specified that targeting civilians was a necessary component.  However, the one option that got the most votes - the one where more ESers said "this is terrorism" than any other option, was the car bomb in Iraq.  The only option on the menu where the target was military troops in an active war zone.  

 

---

 

(I've thought about trying the poll again.  But the new board software doesn't caslculate "choose all that apply" voting correctly.  With the new software, if 

 

* The poll has 4 choices

* One poster votes for option 1

* One poster votes for options 1, 2, and 3

 

then the board says that the voting is:  

 

* Choice 1: 50%

* Choice 2: 25%

* Choice 3: 25%

* Choice 4:  0%

[PleaseBlitz]

1 hour ago, Destino said:

Then terrorism becomes nothing more than a longer word for scary, and a whole bunch of stuff that no one would consider terrorism is now terrorism.  Gang violence?  Scares people, so it's now Terrorism.  Drug dealers?  Scary, now terrorists.  

 

 

This.  So everyone has the urge to label the LV shooting as terrorism.  But without knowing why that guy did it, it's not terrorism.  It's pointless mass murder, and it's scary to know people are both capable of that and have easy access to the means to carry such an attack out, but it's not terrorism.

 

Not that i would be opposed to labeling all spiders as terrorists, but I digress. 

[Renegade7]

I can respect wanting to clarify Terrorism as needing a clear political motive, but pretty sure they lumped Black Church bombing into that during the mid-20th century.  Does Dylan Roof count in wanting to start a Race War, or how the KKK was trying to intimidate minorities in the South when they weren't just dragging them outside and hanging them for others to see?  

 

The main difference between what we don't agree on as Terrorism the way we typically deal with something like ISIS is our military is more involved.  Are we asking too much of our national justice system to deal with similar threats from people here even if they have different motives?  I really don't believe we take it as seriously, and that's a mistake.  Problem is last time we tried to devote similar resources to internal threats via something like say the NSa we ended up with the PRISM program.

 

It's like a bunch of mini-9/11s in a sense that a lot of times all the warning signs are there, but nobody hierarchical is able to help put all the pieces together.  It's almost like we need a whole nother agency just for this, I'm weary of getting the FBI too get bogged down by the necessary ramping up to deal with this, maybe ATF?  Like a stripped down NSA pointing inwards that's focus is less on getting the data themselves, but collecting warning signs from state and local governments (maybe even anonymous tips) and giving heads up when they have enough information to suspect someone wants to commit some act of Terrorism we don't want to call Terrorism.

[Spaceman Spiff]

CNN is saying that the guy left a 25 minute message on his cell phone, confessing everything but gave no insight as to why he did it.   

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/austin-explosions/index.html

[Destino]

1 hour ago, Spaceman Spiff said:

CNN is saying that the guy left a 25 minute message on his cell phone, confessing everything but gave no insight as to why he did it.   

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/austin-explosions/index.html

Seems like he did talk about why he did it, he just didn't give a reason that makes sense or any for targeting specific individuals.  I don't like how things are going so I'll hurt people, is a scary thought process, but it's probably not rare one among extremely violent people.  Wouldn't be the first killer without a specific reason for picking victims either.

 

Then again, everything in the video could be a lie..  

[Larry]

48 minutes ago, Destino said:

Then again, everything in the video could be a lie..

 

It's yet another Deep State false flag operation to try to distract people from Trump's many successes.  

 

[visionary]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/21/us/austin-explosions/index.html

Quote

 

In response to a question from CNN on how the bomber could have kept his activities from his roommates, Milanowksi said there was a room with a lock on it, but he didn't specify whether it was the same room where the bombmaking material were found.

Neighbor Mark Roessler said agents were there Wednesday morning and stopped him when he walked down his driveway to see what was going on.
Roessler said he very seldom saw Conditt and usually only in passing.

"He was a quiet, very polite, respectful young man," he said. "Conversations that I had with him and with the family were all nothing that would ever lead you to believe that anything like this could ever be possible."

 

 

[tshile]

Could you imagine finding out your room mate has been building bombs next to you?

 

Wow...

13 hours ago, Destino said:

 I don't like how things are going so I'll hurt people, is a scary thought process, but it's probably not rare one among extremely violent people.

 

It is. And as much as we battle around the gun issue, there really isn't anything we can do to prevent people from learning about how to make bombs on the internet. And when you break that down into the IED category, I don't think we can really monitor transactions related to the materials either...

 

They talk about it sound like typical cries for help sort of thing. I don't see a workable solution to this. There will always be winners and losers and people between. How do you stop "life's losers" (which means something different to everyone to start with) from doing something like this? Even if you remove "workable" from part of the problem description, I don't see any good options...

[Dan T.]

ABC News reports this yesterday. a twisted little joke from the now dead bomber:

 

Conditt, who was captured on surveillance video, used the alias "Kelly Killmore" to ship the two packages via FedEx on Sunday. 

 

 

[Llevron]

17 hours ago, Larry said:

(I've thought about trying the poll again.  But the new board software doesn't caslculate "choose all that apply" voting correctly.  With the new software, if 

 

* The poll has 4 choices

* One poster votes for option 1

* One poster votes for options 1, 2, and 3

 

then the board says that the voting is:  

 

* Choice 1: 50%

* Choice 2: 25%

* Choice 3: 25%

* Choice 4:  0%

 

I would be surprised if there isnt a way to fix this. Did you post this in the topic we have for issues? I cant remember where it is or i would post if for you. 

[Fresh8686]

1 hour ago, tshile said:

They talk about it sound like typical cries for help sort of thing. I don't see a workable solution to this. There will always be winners and losers and people between. How do you stop "life's losers" (which means something different to everyone to start with) from doing something like this? Even if you remove "workable" from part of the problem description, I don't see any good options...

Personally, part of the problem in the abstract is this global winner and loser mindset, that in it's more extreme iterations, can create violent backlashes. Especially when the "losers" feel like the "winners" are cheating (whether the sentiment is valid or not). Why keep losing at the game, when you can just blow up the whole board and everybody loses?

That's actually one of the hidden purposes of "safety nets" and social welfare. If you take care of those who fall between the cracks and help them get back up to some semblance of healthy, they are less likely to blow your **** up (both in a global and local sense). Black Panther had that as a theme, which I appreciated. We ignore and wall ourselves away from others at our own peril... for eventually our abandoned sons will come and they will try to knock down your doors if you don't let them in.   

Anyways, what are the things or elements that contribute to violent outbursts like this?

 

-Alienation, isolation, disconnection. Feeling outcast or marginalized by society. No sense of upward mobility and capability.

-Feelings of Injustice. Feeling like society has failed or lied to them. Cheated them.
-Narcissism/Arrogance/Self-Delusion. Inflated sense of self-importance and outrage at the insults of the world. Unreasonable/extreme expectations for success and self-worth, that when failed create pain around self-image and unhealthy coping mechanisms that include violent outlets and zero-sum thinking. 
-Chronic Un-focused/Global Resentment. If their self-image can't handle taking responsibility, then whose fault does it become? Who becomes the scapegoat, the outlet for all that pain and pressure? The symbol or effigy for all that is wrong in their life?
-Lack of impulse control, little or stunted development of the pre-frontal cortex in contrast to a distressed or over-active limbic system.

-Glorification of violence as a means to self-empowerment. Strength through violence. Toxic/Immature Masculinity.

-Scarcity of intimate emotional connection and touch.

Each of these elements can be mitigated, but it takes society level change to the limit the pockets of extreme where all these elements have an environment that is conducive to their negative synergy and build-up to the tipping point of mass level violence.