Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[OVCChairman]

32 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Just telling it like it is and the reason I remain so angry at how they handled this whole thing.   Do you see any solution given the crap shoot that the NFL draft?  

 

 

There is no scripted solution.  If you want me to layout my thoughts on it... it would be do what we're doing.  I'll try not to ramble here but the philosophy I see is like this:

 

There are a couple ways to be successful in the NFL.

 

Get an ELITE QB and ride that horse.  See Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees.  Those teams can invest A LOT of money in their QB, because their QB is good enough to win 6-10 games BY THEMSELVES every year.  Now coaching has a big part of this as well, as 2 of those 3 qbs have hall of fame coaches.  This is VERY difficult to do.  These QBs don't grow on trees, and we have not had our hands on one, arguably, in this franchise's history.  Kirk Cousins is NOT this QB.  Alex Smith is NOT this QB.  

 

Another way to do it, and what appears to be the trend for teams not listed above, is to LOAD UP on players and get as much talent around a QB on his rookie deal.  Spending QB $$ elsewhere knowing that your capable rookie will be able to put together enough, given the supporting cast, to be effective at a low cost.  See Seattle, Dallas, Philly when they were at the top of the league.  See LA Rams now.  This is why Reid was willing to give up Smith in favor of Mahomes... watch what happens when Mahomes is due for a contract.  The thing about this method is that once your QB is up for a contract, you find yourself making a lot of tough decisions.  The window is as small as your QBs rookie deal, because the money runs out fast when you're adding enough playmakers to help with your younger QB.  You need to hit on these QBs out of the draft early, and take advantage of it.

 

I get concerned about this method because I want what we all want... long term success for the team.  Unless you have Brees, Rodgers, or Brady... paying a QB for the sake of paying a QB is not smart.  Look at Stafford, Carr, Palmer, Luck, heck, even Flacco can fall into that mix and he got paid after winning a SB. 

 

My opinion, is it's easier to build a team, then it is to build a QB.  Put the best TEAM on the field you can with the money you have.. Right NOW, I think Smith at QB is the putting the best team on the field with the money we have.  If the right QB is there for the money, you do what you need to do to lock him up.  This is where I wanted Kirk 2 years ago.  Problem is they missed.  So we try again.  We win as many football games as we can with the players we have... And we keep trying.  Do I have faith that they'll do it correctly next time?  Not enough to bet anything on it... but what can I do?  I'm just a fan.  I can look at what I personally would do, and have conversations with all you fine people on here.  That's why we're all here isn't it?  I also reserve the right in 6 weeks to change my opinion of Alex Smith because the development I had hoped to see doesn't happen, if ultimately that's the case.  I'm fairly confident it WILL happen, but that's just a guess on my part.  

[Morneblade]

3 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Going into week 8 last year Kirk played 7 games. Alex only played 6 so far. So, the comparison is after 6 games each.

 

True enough, I did not see the 17'/18' comparison. Kirk was on a much worse team last year though. No running game, MASH unit OL, worse Defense. And likely worse WR's.

[ThomasRoane]

3 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 In a league that is gear to taking shots downfield, through the passing game....................Smith is afraid to. He simply holds teams back.

 

Reid on the Mahomes INTs "I want him to test the offense. If you don't have the intestinal fortitude you'll end up being one of those QBs that checks it down all the time."  

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

True enough, I did not see the 17'/18' comparison. Kirk was on a much worse team last year though. No running game, MASH unit OL, worse Defense. And likely worse WR's.

 

It's still the best comparison. And as far as good or bad team - at that point in the season what you say is not really accurate.  It was at the end but not 6 games in. The Defense was still top 10 in most categories(granted not as good as this, but not horrible to that point) and the run game as doing reasonably well. The injuries did start to pile up in the next few games so that's why I said it will be interesting. In some ways it's already a little worse injury wise - especially in terms of receivers - the two best WRs and the best pass catching and 3rd down back. Kirk had him until the NO game last year and CT was having s monster season.

 

 

 

 

[goskins10]

8 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Reid on the Mahomes INTs "I want him to test the offense. If you don't have the intestinal fortitude you'll end up being one of those QBs that checks it down all the time."  

 

Kind of interesting that Alex had a pretty good start last yr - going 5-0. Gm 6 against Pitts was not as good. But he was over 70% comp those 1st 5 gms with 11 Tds and 0 ints. His QBR was something like 120. Did not do the calcs but that's roughly close I believe.

 

Lets see how Mahomes finishes.

[Darrell Green Fan]

25 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I was a huge Kirk fan. Kirk is def a better Qb than Alex. No doubt. 

 

Kirk didnt want to be here bc the FO kinda screwed up and Kirk kinda wanted to go no matter what.

 

Alex is a competent enough QB. This is a different team vs years past. We are trying to win games a different way. Perhaps a more consistent way that doesnt rely on your QB needing to throw for over 350 yds a game to be in it.

 

We all loved Kirk. He is gone. Ive moved on.

 

If you want to move on that's fine. Not me, Hell I'm still bitter that the Red Sox traded a young prospect named Jeff Bagwell for a middle relief rental.  As the years go by and our QB situation worsens as Kirk puts up good seasons for the Vikes year after year I will simply get more angry and how inept my team is.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

29 minutes ago, ThomasRoane said:

 

Reid on the Mahomes INTs "I want him to test the offense. If you don't have the intestinal fortitude you'll end up being one of those QBs that checks it down all the time."  

 

This is about as close as we are going to get to Andy Reid giving us two middle fingers while he laughs like Dr Evil. 

 

But he's not wrong. 

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

This is about as close as we are going to get to Andy Reid giving us two middle fingers while he laughs like Dr Evil. 

 

But he's not wrong. 

 

And there you have it.

[HardcoreZorn]

All of this would make so much more sense to me if Kirk won even a single playoff game. Just one. Or in 2016 with the red carpet rolled out didn't fall flat on his face with a golden chace for back to back playoff years. I watched him this past week, he looks exactly the same to me. Was terrible on 3rd down and in the redzone. One game I know, but I certainly didn't come away thinking "OH MY GOD, how did we lose this guy." He's a good quarterback who can rack up some nice chunk yardage and his stat line at the end of the day always looks pretty. But I just will never understand this over the top infatuation about the guy.

 

Ironically enough, I went back to the Cousins thread started after the 2016 season and over half the fans (a lot still posting on here) were fine with paying him, but somewhere in the 22-24M range. Which we all know would have never stopped him from signing that franchise tender and getting to FA, his ultimate goal all long. Another segment didn't want to pay him at all and then the rest said back up the brinks truck and do what you have to do. That's exactly how I remembered it too, but thought I was losing my sanity for a moment. Anyways, it's interesting how that narrative has changed over time. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Where they really messed up was thinking he would eventually cave instead of recouping proper value for him.

[Skinsinparadise]

I was just poking around, this reminds me that he had some games last year where he struggled.  So I see some good and bad in that.  The good is he can get hot and cold and maybe this is just a cold period and the hot is coming?  The bad is what's explained here by the Chief's blog is similar to what Cooley described.  Hopefully he snaps out of it.

 

https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2017/11/26/16702708/what-the-chiefs-should-do-with-alex-smith-and-patrick-mahomes

 

The problem isn’t Reid’s system. Talk to me about screens all you want, I’m telling you, guys are open down the field. The worse Alex plays, the more tightly you’ll see Reid control the offense with screens and quick shots. But that’s a reactionary move by Reid when Alex is struggling, NOT Reid playing his preferred system. You want to know what his preferred system is? Turn on the film from the first 5 weeks, which features concepts other teams are still copying. The problem. Ain’t. Andy.

 

The offensive line has been disappointing this season in some respects (injuries have played a role), but again, if you watch the film, you’ll see Alex repeatedly make pressure worse by getting happy feet, moving off his “spot” in the pocket (which ruins the angles linemen are trying to work, as they can’t see the QB move), and even running into pressure.

Just watching Alex play you can see a quarterback who has lost all trust in his line, and is looking to bail the second things look even a little bit off. And if you think it’s the line’s fault, note how well Alex played against the Eagles and the Redskins, when there was plenty of pressure on Alex. HE was different, not the line. And when your QB is seeing shadows out there, it makes everything else worse.

[Stadium-Armory]

If you haven't watched that interview with Alex, watch it. Lots of insight in to what is going on. He talked about how he and Jay aren't always on the same page with what to call in certain situations. He said something like "I expected a certain kind of play with this type of look and got something different".  Interesting. I hope their play calling rhythm gets better as they have more time together, but I also think it's on Jay to adapt to his players, not the other way around. It's somewhat concerning, given that Jay's "adaptability" has at times in the past been a question mark. Hate to keep bringing up old ****, but as an example, this was Gibbs' strong suit and it showed in his results. 

[Warhead36]

I'm hopeful that he'll play better with more time in the system but one would think being a 13 year vet should expedite the learning process some. Otherwise, we'd have been better off just going with a rookie.

[TradeTheBeal!]

NFL Network is replaying the game tonight if y’all want more of that sweet, sweet ball security.

[bobafett14]

[London Kev]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The approach in Washington was to run a more balanced and controlled offense, relying less on wild, explosive plays and instead moving methodically downfield with crisper, midrange throws.

Let's hope that Alex can loosen up just a little bit because I would be all in for this type of offense. Short and mid-range passes combined with runs and play action.  I would be more than happy with that.

 

The deep ball, read options and run-pass options are all well and good, but lets get the basics right first.  The problem at the moment is the absence of mid-range passes and play action.  Maybe "problem" isn't the right word as we are 4-2, it's just really frustrating to watch at the moment.

[HigSkin]

I didn't see this posted but great listen...I really like him taking responsibility for the bone headed out of bounds move and chuckled about how pointed JG is when you do something stupid.

 

 

[Thinking Skins]

Check out @Redskins’s Tweet:

Dag, that's what I get for not checking first

[wit33]

I want Alex’s statistics to improve and his overall play, but it sure is nice to have a guy who truly can careless about his individual stats. Like really, not surface stuff. Now get it together Alex and get passing game to average. 

[Tay]

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

50 minutes ago, Tay said:

 

That’s a great stat but more relevant in the AP thread.

[Tay]

7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s a great stat but more prevalent in the AP thread.

 

This stat is more about ball control. It's one of the things Alex can be credited with so far this year where the team sees a great benefit. 

[skins island connection]

12 hours ago, London Kev said:

Let's hope that Alex can loosen up just a little bit because I would be all in for this type of offense. Short and mid-range passes combined with runs and play action.  I would be more than happy with that.

 

The deep ball, read options and run-pass options are all well and good, but lets get the basics right first.  The problem at the moment is the absence of mid-range passes and play action.  Maybe "problem" isn't the right word as we are 4-2, it's just really frustrating to watch at the moment.

 

 The 'deep ball' helps to stretch the defense, to force them to honor the deep pass and the WR running it. If Gruden doesn't test the defense they eventually will tighten up close to the LOS, making the short and mid-range passing lanes too crowded. Eventually Gruden will be forced to call plays designed to go deep, and they will be ready for it, then Gruden will be 'behind' in the play calling battle.

 

I'm sure they go deep in practices but it never translates into an actual game, and maybe Doctson CAN be a better deep threat, but he needs the opportunities to build his confidence in catching these passes and give defenses something to worry about. Most sports talk I've heard refers to the Redskins as a running team with dink-n-dunk passes, I can only imagine what opponents see on film.

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

That’s a great stat but more prevalent in the AP thread.

 

First, I am assuming you meant relevant - not prevalent. Not being the internet typo police as I make 100s of them. But in this case as prevalent as typos are, getting clarity on this is highly relevant (like that?). ? 

 

Assuming relevant is the term - that's a shot at Alex making the claim he has nothing or little to do with the ball control offense they are running right now. However, even if he didn't complete a single pass - which is not true - a fair amount of those short fields last year were due to TOs. Also, the more I am hearing about the game against dallas is that without Crowder, CT, and Richardson, the game plan was to run, run, and run some more. That does not ignore the fact that when asked to pass Alex was not very good last week. 

 

But it does show the value of taking care of the ball which is a team effort. At this point last year even with a good start Kirk had 5 TOs compared to 3 for Alex. If I remember the rest of the team was also giving the ball to the other team. Overall the Redskins are not turning it over as a team as much as they have in the past. Yes at least some of that is also AP, but it's overall ball control by the entire offense that Alex is leading. 

 

AP deserves his due but he is not doing it alone. 

44 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

 

 The 'deep ball' helps to stretch the defense, to force them to honor the deep pass and the WR running it. If Gruden doesn't test the defense they eventually will tighten up close to the LOS, making the short and mid-range passing lanes too crowded. Eventually Gruden will be forced to call plays designed to go deep, and they will be ready for it, then Gruden will be 'behind' in the play calling battle.

 

I'm sure they go deep in practices but it never translates into an actual game, and maybe Doctson CAN be a better deep threat, but he needs the opportunities to build his confidence in catching these passes and give defenses something to worry about. Most sports talk I've heard refers to the Redskins as a running team with dink-n-dunk passes, I can only imagine what opponents see on film.

 

Today coaches send in a few options for the QBs to pick from. So what we do not know is how many deep ball plays Jay has called that Alex has checked out of. I remember one the frustrations Jay had with Kirk was checking out of long pass plays into either runs or short passes. Alex talked in his podcast about him and Jay not quite being on the same page yet. He is clearly timid right now. Ideally that gets better and they start thinking more alike and Alex gets more comfortable. 

 

Again, I know it's easy to unload on the guy, and he deserves a lot of it, but it's been 6 games. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

33 minutes ago, Tay said:

 

This stat is more about ball control. It's one of the things Alex can be credited with so far this year where the team sees a great benefit. 

 

Much easier to do with AP moving the chains.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

40 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

First, I am assuming you meant relevant - not prevalent. Not being the internet typo police as I make 100s of them. But in this case as prevalent as typos are, getting clarity on this is highly relevant (like that?). ? 

 

Assuming relevant is the term - that's a shot at Alex making the claim he has nothing tor little to do with the ball control offense they are running right now. However, even if he didn't complete a single pass - which is not true - a fair amount of those short fields last year were due to TOs. Also, the more I am hearing about the game against dallas is that without Crowder, CT, and Richardson, the game plan was to run, run, and run some more. That does not ignore the fact that when asked to pass Alex was not very good last week. 

 

But it does show the value of taking care of the ball which is a team effort. At this point last year even with a good start Kirk had 5 TOs compared to 3 for Alex. If I remember the rest of the team was also giving the ball to the other team. Overall the Redskins are not turning it over as a team as much as they have in the past. Yes at least some of that is also AP, but it's overall ball control by the entire offense that Alex is leading. 

 

AP deserves his due but he is not doing it alone. 

You are correct, it was a typo.

 

We’ll just have to agree to disagree, because in my opinion all of this is null and void without AP.  For example, if we were trying to move chains with Perine or Kelly, we would be forced into more situations more likely to turn the ball over.  On a side note, we’ve been rather lucky on bounces this year.  Which is a welcome change and really we’re due.

 

That said, I gather the impression that if Alex Smith was playing for say Dallas, at the exact same level he’s played for us.  The same fans hanging onto Alex’s ball control for positivity would be salivating at the chance to play him if he was in another uniform.