Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[bakedtater1]

7 hours ago, wit33 said:

I want Alex’s statistics to improve and his overall play, but it sure is nice to have a guy who truly can careless about his individual stats. Like really, not surface stuff. Now get it together Alex and get passing game to average. 

There we go..a post worth actually reading..I agree %100 good call man...

[TradeTheBeal!]

26 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

 

That said, I gather the impression that if Alex Smith was playing for say Dallas, at the exact same level he’s played for us.  The same fans hanging onto Alex’s ball control for positivity would be salivating at the chance to play him if he was in another uniform.  

 

Dallas Alex would’ve beaten DC Dak last Sunday.  For reasons you are well aware of.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Just now, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Dallas Alex would’ve beaten DC Dak last Sunday.  For reasons you are well aware of.

Interesting you say that, because I liken Smith to Dak.  Both can look really good when the threat of the run is there. Either QB with AP running for 100 probably gets that win though.

[TradeTheBeal!]

2 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Interesting you say that, because I liken Smith to Dak.  Both can look really good when the threat of the run is there. Either QB with AP running for 100 probably gets that win though.

 

The threat of the run is there when you have the lead.  Regardless of who the personnel is.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

The threat of the run is there when you have the lead.  Regardless of who the personnel is.

 

Im pretty sure you’ve watched enough mediocre running backs run it three times and out to know that’s not true.

 

Fact of the matter is that if AP ran for 31 yards and Zeke ran for 100, you really think DC whomever wins? No way.

[TradeTheBeal!]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

 

Im pretty sure you’ve watched enough mediocre running backs run it three times and out to know that’s not true.

 

Fact of the matter is that if AP ran for 31 yards and Zeke ran for 100, you really think DC whomever wins? No way.

 

Zeke had 5 carries in the 2nd half.

 

Why?

[OVCChairman]

13 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Zeke had 5 carries in the 2nd half.

 

Why?

 

 

In fairness, I think it had more to do with the fact that we were taking him away, than the fact that we were winning.  Dallas was within reach the entire 2nd half.  We were stoning him and they knew it, so they tried to go a different route.  It didnt hurt that they were behind, but if they were behind and he was still at least somewhat effective, he would have been part of their plans. 

[TradeTheBeal!]

4 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

In fairness, I think it had more to do with the fact that we were taking him away, than the fact that we were winning.  Dallas was within reach the entire 2nd half.  We were stoning him and they knew it, so they tried to go a different route.  It didnt hurt that they were behind, but if they were behind and he was still at least somewhat effective, he would have been part of their plans. 

 

This is fair, but backs that put up big numbers do most of their damage in the 2nd half when they have the lead.  The QB protects the ball, moves the chains on 3rd & 5ish and the defense folds up.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

I’d understand your point in regards to Zeke if in the event we had a big lead but not til the strip six did we have a lead large enough to take any part of the run game away.  The run game was taken away by the defense prior to that point.

[London Kev]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

 

 The 'deep ball' helps to stretch the defense, to force them to honor the deep pass and the WR running it. If Gruden doesn't test the defense they eventually will tighten up close to the LOS, making the short and mid-range passing lanes too crowded. Eventually Gruden will be forced to call plays designed to go deep, and they will be ready for it, then Gruden will be 'behind' in the play calling battle.

 

I'm sure they go deep in practices but it never translates into an actual game, and maybe Doctson CAN be a better deep threat, but he needs the opportunities to build his confidence in catching these passes and give defenses something to worry about. Most sports talk I've heard refers to the Redskins as a running team with dink-n-dunk passes, I can only imagine what opponents see on film.

 

Yeah, the deep ball or even the threat of a deep ball is needed as a part of any offense. I think that's why we signed Richardson.

 

But SIP was quoting what the Front office expected our basic philosophy to be with Smith at QB. I was making the point that if Alex would actually embrace this philosophy and just open up a bit more with the mid-range passes (and Gruden called more play action), then I would be a happy fan.

 

Got to learn to walk before you can run and get Smith to trust the receivers in the mid-range more consistently first.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Dallas Alex would’ve beaten DC Dak last Sunday.  For reasons you are well aware of.

Huh... I guess I’m not aware of the reasons because I’d say there’s almost no way we’d have lost to a Smith-lead Dallas team with no running game.  

[DJHJR86]

19 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

Im not sure if you are serious.

 

That list is full of HOF or damn near HOFs.

 

Eli Manning?  Andrew Luck?  Matt Ryan?  Tony Romo?

 

I found it interesting to point out that Mr. "All He Does Is Win" is nowhere to be seen on a list of QBs who have either played the same amount of seasons as him (Rodgers, Rivers) or less than him (Luck, Ryan) are on that list and he is not.  The point of bringing that up is that a common positive being pointed out is his winning percentage, as if he had anything to do with winning.  That list shows that he has had a decent to great defense his entire career (along with a running game), meaning that just like this year, teams were winning in spite of him, not because of him.  

 

This is strictly my opinion, but if he wasn't a #1 overall pick, I think his career would have went on a similar path as a Trent Edwards.  Smith was awful until the 49ers got 2 things: Harbaugh and a defense.  Being as he was a #1, they were more patient with him.  Since 2011, he's had the benefit of good defenses and good running games.  

[DJHJR86]

19 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

That poster said 'you'd think he'd be on that list'.  No I don't think he's on that list because he's had good defenses on the other side of the ball. 

 

It goes to show you how meaningless it is to keep bringing up his win/loss percentage.  Drew Brees has had 7 "winning records" in a season over his entire career.

 

[OVCChairman]

24 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

It goes to show you how meaningless it is to keep bringing up his win/loss percentage.  Drew Brees has had 7 "winning records" in a season over his entire career.

 

 

 

I get it.  I promise, but your list is irrelevant because Smith generally doesn't have one of the contributing factors to your list... a bottom half defense.  He's been helped with good defenses.  He's not going to be on that list because he doesn't qualify for it.... 

 

 

and that list looks very odd... Joe Montana is the last name listed and he's got 5... you're telling me that since 1970, there aren't however many qbs that have won more than 5 games despite the fact that their team is bottom 16 in points allowed? 

[CTskin]

Smith is an average QB, how is this still up for debate? In a good system with good talent, he's above average and I imagine the same can be said for the other side of the coin (it's not completely proven because his only truly bad years were when he was young and the 9ers were a dumpster fire). The good thing is that the only unknown with him here is upside. He's played OK so far, but how much improvement will there be once he becomes fully comfortable in this system. Given Gruden's weekly acknowledgement that Alex is missing people, there's clearly room for improvement. Maybe Alex will never come around and take another step in this system, but I believe that he will. 

 

I can't help but wonder how this team would be doing if Kirk was here... Would we be a juggernaut with our newfound solid rush D, rush O, coupled with his better passing ability? Or would his patented costly turnovers have lost us some of these games?

 

I look at it this way, we're 4-2 and that's with an injured, not clicking offense... I can't help but feel positive about that.

[TradeTheBeal!]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

Huh... I guess I’m not aware of the reasons because I’d say there’s almost no way we’d have lost to a Smith-lead Dallas team with no running game.  

 

Because Dak had two really bad turnovers.

 

You should watch the games.

[DJHJR86]

51 minutes ago, CTskin said:

I look at it this way, we're 4-2 and that's with an injured, not clicking offense... I can't help but feel positive about that.

 

I agree, although I'm cautiously optimistic because I'm not sure if AP is sustainable for a full season.  We have no one else to pick up the slack if he goes down.  And then things are going to get very ugly.

[JSSkinz]

I know people want more play action but its tough to call when the pass pro is inconsistent, I watched the Dallas game again and the line did ok in pass pro which is encouraging.

 

Alex had time but bailed at times when he didn't need to but I think he's still a bit skiddish from the previous weeks when the line was leaking like a sieve.

 

Hopefully, Gruden will have some confidence to call more PA this week.

[ThomasRoane]

7 hours ago, Tay said:

 

This stat is more about ball control. It's one of the things Alex can be credited with so far this year where the team sees a great benefit. 

 

The only role that Alex is playing in the ball control phase is handing off to AP.  He doesn't want to run this year for some reason.  I don't know if he's trying to ensure that he'll finish out his contract or what.  But he is not helping with the running game at all.  No defense is terrified that Alex is going to beat them over top.  

[Malapropismic Depository]

What started as a thread intended to support Alex Smith, has really turned 180 degrees, lol

[Skinsinparadise]

I listened to Cooley's rap about Alex's play versus Dallas on Sheehan's podcast.  And for those tempted to slam this, I promise I'll put EVERY Cooley's take on Alex each week good or bad because I know some are interested 

 

Cliff notes of it:

 

C- to D level performance

He's playing pretty much one read and then bolts.  He only connected on one pass where he went to his 2nd read

Most of his scrambles are unnecessary and driven by panic on his end

He leaves too many plays on the field

Playing with too much anxiety

Accuracy is off in part because he sees pressure even when its not there, talked about the miss in the end zone to Sprinkle was because he rushed a throw with bad footwork even though no pressure was there -- should have been an easy touchdown

considering how few points they got considering how they had so much favorable field positions -- might be a good portent for when the passing offense gets it together

He and Sheehan were surprised about how slow Alex looks like when he does scramble

Adrian Peterson is the offense right now

 

I can't recall so much brutal Cooley takes on a QB since the RG3 days of 2014.  But he hopes and thinks Alex and Jay will figure this out.   Cooley says it all in a cheerful way.  But his takes have been brutal so far.  Not saying Cooley is the be all and end all but he's often been correct.  I bring up RG3 because I recall the kill the messenger posts on Cooley when he savaged RG3 -- I was even guilty of it at times back then.  Not comparing Rg3 to Alex.  Obviously, Alex is the much more accomplished player.  I am just saying "some" of this reminds me of 2014. 

 

And I am not bailing on Alex, hopefully he starts picking it up.  Cooley suspects he will improve.  

 

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Because Dak had two really bad turnovers.

 

You should watch the games.

Condescension aside...

 

I didn’t realize in this hypothetical that we’re including the turnovers that our D forced because of Garret’s decisions, lol.  

 But yeah, even including those, I 1) don’t think Smith would have scored 13 points with out a ground game and 2) our offense would have moved the ball a bit better with (easily? likely?) better production from the qb.  

 

It’s all fantasy land of course, waste of time to argue the point... I should have expected that stance from you though, lol.  

[Momma There Goes That Man]

5 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said:

 

Because Dak had two really bad turnovers.

 

You should watch the games.

 

And still was a missed Fg from going into OT against the far superior Alex smith. 

 

Keep the defenses the same as they are. Alex smith on Dallas with Zeke getting 30 yards loses by at least 14 pts to DC Dak

 

he is nothing more than a product of those around him. When they are good to great, he’s looks ok to above average, when they’re bad he looks like hot garbage 

[Est.1974]

Smith has been above average, only just, so far this season. But the margins are fine at QB. He's going at 10-15% down on last year. That's still enough to keep us competitive which is what he has done the majority of the time this season. 

 

Thats his rep. Just need to find that extra 10-15% in his game. Not the worst situation by any means 6 games in.

 

Massive statement game Sunday though. For both him and Gruden.

 

 

 

[Warhead36]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I listened to Cooley's rap about Alex's play versus Dallas on Sheehan's podcast.  And for those tempted to slam this, I promise I'll put EVERY Cooley's take on Alex each week good or bad because I know some are interested 

 

Cliff notes of it:

 

C- to D level performance

He's playing pretty much one read and then bolts.  He only connected on one pass where he went to his 2nd read

Most of his scrambles are unnecessary and driven by panic on his end

He leaves too many plays on the field

Playing with too much anxiety

Accuracy is off in part because he sees pressure even when its not there, talked about the miss in the end zone to Sprinkle was because he rushed a throw with bad footwork even though no pressure was there -- should have been an easy touchdown

considering how few points they got considering how they had so much favorable field positions -- might be a good portent for when the passing offense gets it together

He and Sheehan were surprised about how slow Alex looks like when he does scramble

Adrian Peterson is the offense right now

 

I can't recall so much brutal Cooley takes on a QB since the RG3 days of 2014.  But he hopes and thinks Alex and Jay will figure this out.   Cooley says it all in a cheerful way.  But his takes have been brutal so far.  Not saying Cooley is the be all and end all but he's often been correct.  I bring up RG3 because I recall the kill the messenger posts on Cooley when he savaged RG3 -- I was even guilty of it at times back then.  Not comparing Rg3 to Alex.  Obviously, Alex is the much more accomplished player.  I am just saying "some" of this reminds me of 2014. 

 

And I am not bailing on Alex, hopefully he starts picking it up.  Cooley suspects he will improve.  

 

2013-2014 RG3 is a good comparison to Smith right now. Frantic, panicing, bad footwork, missing reads, just a mess of sorts.

 

Earlier I compared him to 04-05 Mark Brunell but I don't think that's the case. Brunell then was just physically finished. I think Smith still has it physically but doesn't seem to quite be in sync with the rest of the offense.