2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

[actorguy1]

14 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

So much for this guy making a decision last night...or was that someone else?

There was a rumor that Williams was going to decide last night 

Regarding Hankins I am willing to place a small wager that he is asking for North of $10 million a year. If he can come down to 10 or less I think he will be signed. How long that would take I have no idea

[HardcoreZorn]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

To me, I'd be impressed and mildly surprised if the Redskins duke it out with Lions and end up with the better of the two defensive tackles in Hankins. 

 

If it goes the other way, it would fall dead on in my criticism about how they address the D line position -- echoing last years FAs at that spot.   Average.   Unless, they have something else cooking or we get lucky with another release.   IMO average D line everything being equal average at best defense -- unless the offensive is explosive.

 

On our defense thus far we've lost so far more than we gained.  IMO they have to sign at least one major guy on that side of the ball.

 

 

I for sure want to sign Hankins and agree with your premise in theory.

 

But one thing that I don't think is talked about enough on here is the job this coaching staff has done with developing players. I think that is absolutely critical for the success of an organization and one of the reasons I'm way more optimistic than most when it comes to this team. Guys like Murphy, Grant, Moses, Long, Doctson, Fuller, etc were nothing to write home about after their rookie seasons but showed noticeable  improvement in years 2 and 3. Ironically, a lot of those guys who I just listed have moved on, or in Fuller's case, been traded to the dismay of a lot of fans. But I'd venture to guess many of those same fans were not talking about those players in the same light after their rookie seasons.

 

So it's easy to say "we've lost more than we gained" at this point in time and assume we will be worse off. But in reality, I'm sure the coaching staff has high hopes for Ioan and Allen to take another step forward, and for guys like Anderson, Moreau, Hosley, and Harvey-Clemons to emerge. Along with the draft and hopefully staying more healthy this year and I would venture to guess the belief within the building is we will be better off, not worse.

 

All that being said, I think signing Hankins is hugely important. Just not at such a high number that it prevents us from re upping Smith, Crowder, Scherff etc who will all be expensive. Hopeful that it works out and by no means am I minimizing the impact a guy like Hank would have on this defense.

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

Right, but still the 3-4 was not what we were in with any real frequency. 

 

We were in the nickel (4-2-5) the most and not 3-4 base.  We made the switch in 2010 and have yet to have a true NT (except Pot Roast one season) needed for the 3-4 base to work effectively.  It's a failed experiment, time to scrap it and go back to a 4-3 base.  Sure we need some better linebackers, but if you can't find a true NT to plug in 7 out of the 8 seasons, what's the freaking point of sticking with the 3-4 and lining up in the nickel most of the downs.  

 

 

[OVCChairman]

Just now, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

We were in the nickel (4-2-5) the most and not 3-4 base.  We made the switch in 2010 and have yet to have a true NT (except Pot Roast one season) needed for the 3-4 base to work effectively.  It's a failed experiment, time to scrap it and go back to a 4-3 base.  Sure we need some better linebackers, but if you can't find a true NT to plug in 7 out of the 8 seasons, what's the freaking point of sticking with the 3-4 and lining up in the nickel most of the downs.  

 

 

it would appear we have scrapped it... because it's rarely used..  they just didnt have a press release about it.  

[Commander -JB-]

5 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I for sure want to sign Hankins and agree with your premise in theory.

 

But one thing that I don't think is talked about enough on here is the job this coaching staff has done with developing players. I think that is absolutely critical for the success of an organization and one of the reasons I'm way more optimistic than most when it comes to this team. Guys like Murphy, Grant, Moses, Long, Doctson, Fuller, etc were nothing to write home about after their rookie seasons but showed noticeable  improvement in years 2 and 3. Ironically, a lot of those guys who I just listed have moved on, or in Fuller's case, been traded to the dismay of a lot of fans. But I'd venture to guess many of those same fans were not talking about those players in the same light after their rookie seasons.

 

So it's easy to say "we've lost more than we gained" at this point in time and assume we will be worse off. But in reality, I'm sure the coaching staff has high hopes for Ioan and Allen to take another step forward, and for guys like Anderson, Moreau, Hosley, and Harvey-Clemons to emerge. Along with the draft and hopefully staying more healthy this year and I would venture to guess the belief within the building is we will be better off, not worse.

 

All that being said, I think signing Hankins is hugely important. Just not at such a high number that it prevents us from re upping Smith, Crowder, Scherff etc who will all be expensive. Hopeful that it works out and by no means am I minimizing the impact a guy like Hank would have on this defense.

People do not trust the process.  Trent Murphy year one was being called a bust.  He developed into a good enough backup that even after missing all of last season he got overpaid in Buffalo.  Matt Ioannidis developed into a guy who paired well with Allen along the line.  We just drafted Ryan Anderson.  If he continues to develop he can be a big piece this year.  I just want fans to stop looking always to FA to fill every hole.  Player development!  When teams start to overpay for your backups (Murphy/Grant) , that’s a great thing!  Compensatory picks.  Not sexy.  But the great organizations consistently have them.

[Skinsinparadise]

57 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I for sure want to sign Hankins and agree with your premise in theory.

 

But one thing that I don't think is talked about enough on here is the job this coaching staff has done with developing players. I think that is absolutely critical for the success of an organization and one of the reasons I'm way more optimistic than most when it comes to this team.

 

You aren't going to find too many people who like this coaching staff more than me.   I like them as people too meeting Jay once and Manusky multiple times.

 

But I think there is something to what I keep hearing at least speculation wise from people that cover the team that this is a make or break season as for people coming back.  I don't care if Bruce loses his job.  But I don't want to start over with new coaching.  I am a big stability guy.  And I like this coaching staff.

 

I've just seen the movie too many times about lets develop the D line.  They have made progress on that front. But its a position that you typically need 4 impact guys.  And I don't think they have it.  Lanier has developed as a pass rusher but right now he's a liability against the run.   I am not sure who the other diamond in the rough is in the bunch but Lanier definitely has potential.

 

But without getting lost in the weeds, I'll just keep it focused on the nose.  We don't have a true run stuffing 2 gap guy.  And yeah maybe journeyman AJ Francis becomes that guy -- but been there done that so many times -- that in Jay's shoes I wouldn't risk my job on it. 

 

Ziggy Hood playing 0 and 1 just doesn't cut if for me.  Replacing him with someone who is a beast against the run to me is a game changer. 

 

 

 

 

 

[HardcoreZorn]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

You aren't going to find too many people who like this coaching staff more than me.   I like them as people too meeting Jay once and Manusky multiple times.

 

But I think there is something to what I keep hearing at least speculation wise from people that cover the team that this is a make or break season as for people coming back.  I don't care if Bruce loses his job.  But I don't want to start over with new coaching.  I am a big stability guy.  And I like this coaching staff.

 

I've just seen the movie too many times about lets develop the D line.  They have made progress on that front. But its a position that you typically need 4 impact guys.  And I don't think they have it.  Lanier has developed as a pass rusher but right now he's a liability against the run.   I am not sure who the other diamond in the rough is in the bunch but Lanier definitely has potential.

 

But without getting lost in the weeds, I'll just keep it focused on the nose.  We don't have a true run stuffing 2 gap guy.  And yeah maybe journeyman AJ Francis becomes that guy -- but been there done that so many times -- that in Jay's shoes I wouldn't risk my job on it. 

 

Ziggy Hand playing 0 and 1 just doesn't cut if for me.  Replacing him with someone who is a beast against the run to me is a game changer. 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah man we are speaking the same language. Just saying overall on the whole it may not be as simple as saying we lost this guy and this guy and signed this guy so now we are worse. Might be a good amount of improvement coming in house. If it were up to me, sign Hankins and draft Vea. Hell, get another DL in the second for all I care. Load it up.

 

As for Francis, my current roommate out here in San Diego is best friends with the guy dating back from his Terps days and is coming to visit him this off-season. I'll be sure to let him know to lock down the Nose position for the next 10 years.

[bobandweave]

46 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

There was a rumor that Williams was going to decide last night 

Regarding Hankins I am willing to place a small wager that he is asking for North of $10 million a year. If he can come down to 10 or less I think he will be signed. How long that would take I have no idea

 

Did he make his decision?

[WelshSkinsFan]

No decision yet and now both are scheduled to meet with the Lions.  It is a waiting game from here.

[bobandweave]

 

[Unbias]

5 minutes ago, bobandweave said:

 

Did he make his decision?

 

After taking the night to mull it over he went with the Eggs Benedict with fruit on the side...

 

... With whole grain toast...

[goskins10]

 

41 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

 

I for sure want to sign Hankins and agree with your premise in theory.

 

But one thing that I don't think is talked about enough on here is the job this coaching staff has done with developing players. I think that is absolutely critical for the success of an organization and one of the reasons I'm way more optimistic than most when it comes to this team. Guys like Murphy, Grant, Moses, Long, Doctson, Fuller, etc were nothing to write home about after their rookie seasons but showed noticeable  improvement in years 2 and 3. Ironically, a lot of those guys who I just listed have moved on, or in Fuller's case, been traded to the dismay of a lot of fans. But I'd venture to guess many of those same fans were not talking about those players in the same light after their rookie seasons.

 

So it's easy to say "we've lost more than we gained" at this point in time and assume we will be worse off. But in reality, I'm sure the coaching staff has high hopes for Ioan and Allen to take another step forward, and for guys like Anderson, Moreau, Hosley, and Harvey-Clemons to emerge. Along with the draft and hopefully staying more healthy this year and I would venture to guess the belief within the building is we will be better off, not worse.

 

All that being said, I think signing Hankins is hugely important. Just not at such a high number that it prevents us from re upping Smith, Crowder, Scherff etc who will all be expensive. Hopeful that it works out and by no means am I minimizing the impact a guy like Hank would have on this defense.

 

i totally agree here and it's something completely missed - or dismissed by those that want Jay gone.

 

One of the big complaints before Jay got here - and rightfully so - is that the Skins never developed people. They came and left either the same or in many instances worse. But since Jay has gotten here the coaches have developed guys. Also, they have been able to in most cases bring guys in off the street after a wave of injuries and get them ready to play. Last year finally proved to much for them to over come. But it should not be lost how they have developed players. 

 

I am in a wait and see mode on Hankins. My thought has been all along that if can be signed for $10M/yr or less (ignoring guarantees and other details for now), then he needs to be signed. But if he is asking for more than that, it's hard to fault them for letting him walk. At least for right now, it does not seem like anyone is offering what he is asking - whatever that price is or he would be signed. 

 

My understanding - clearly i do not have first hand knowledge here so it's admittedly hearsay - Poston - his agent, likes to hit people really high and then let the dust settle. And we know Bruce likes to start low and let the dust settle. Can those two find common ground? Until he is signed, who knows. I hope he signs here but if does not because of too high an asking price, it will be hard to be too upset. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, HardcoreZorn said:

Yeah man we are speaking the same language. Just saying overall on the whole it may not be as simple as saying we lost this guy and this guy and signed this guy so now we are worse. Might be a good amount of improvement coming in house. If it were up to me, sign Hankins and draft Vea. Hell, get another DL in the second for all I care. Load it up.

 

As for Francis, my current roommate out here in San Diego is best friends with the guy dating back from his Terps days and is coming to visit him this off-season. I'll be sure to let him know to lock down the Nose position for the next 10 years.

 

Sure, I don't mean it that simple but at the moment they have yet to make a move to upgrade the defense. Zero.  It's ALL about the guys in house are going to develop and replace the players we lost.  I doubt for example they think that Holsey = Fuller.  According to Keim and others they were devastated to lose Fuller, they thought he was developing into a beast.  So what drove them to trade Fuller wasn't we got the next guy in house but instead they had no choice.   As for Dunbar=Breeland.  Will see.  Maybe.  Not saying you are saying these things I am just doing the tit for tat replacements in my head.

 

If they let Galette go after losing Murphy.  Ryan Anderson = Galette.  Who knows.  In a small sample it doesn't look like it so we will see.  So I don't see any obvious addition by subtraction in any position.  It's not that I think it can't happen but I don't see any slam dunk improvements.  

 

For me I can deal with all of it.  If they sign a major DT who can stuff the run.  I don't feel like I am being too greedy about the off season.  Get a speedy WR -- they did it.  Get a RB -- looks like its going to happen in the draft.  And for defense I can deal with everything they are doing if they sign a DT.  That's it. 

 

As for Francis, he seems like a cool dude on the radio, articulate.  But yeah if at 28 he develops into a big time NT, I'd love it.  But no offense at him but we've been through the develop the next NT for a long time and it just doesn't seem to come together for whatever reason.

[redrobert]

Lions signed DT Ricky Jean-Francois, formerly of the Patriots.

[Jericho]

23 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

i totally agree here and it's something completely missed - or dismissed by those that want Jay gone.

 

One of the big complaints before Jay got here - and rightfully so - is that the Skins never developed people. They came and left either the same or in many instances worse. But since Jay has gotten here the coaches have developed guys. Also, they have been able to in most cases bring guys in off the street after a wave of injuries and get them ready to play. Last year finally proved to much for them to over come. But it should not be lost how they have developed players. 

 

I am in a wait and see mode on Hankins. My thought has been all along that if can be signed for $10M/yr or less (ignoring guarantees and other details for now), then he needs to be signed. But if he is asking for more than that, it's hard to fault them for letting him walk. At least for right now, it does not seem like anyone is offering what he is asking - whatever that price is or he would be signed. 

 

My understanding - clearly i do not have first hand knowledge here so it's admittedly hearsay - Poston - his agent, likes to hit people really high and then let the dust settle. And we know Bruce likes to start low and let the dust settle. Can those two find common ground? Until he is signed, who knows. I hope he signs here but if does not because of too high an asking price, it will be hard to be too upset. 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of this. I don't consider myself a huge Jay Gruden fan, but I get the sense I like him far more than most fans. At least around here. I'm actually surprised how little love he gets. The Redskins have had major issues the last two decades under Snyder, but the two biggest personal issues have been head coach and quarterback. There have been some bad head coaches (Spurrier, Zorn) and a long line of bad QBs. Gruden has his flaws, but he's a very competent coach and excellent at working with QBs. Those are two very strong selling points.

 

As mentioned above, I also like that the team has actually had some success at developing players. How much of that you attribute to Gruden is hard to say, but actually developing players and having some consistency from year to year is huge. So I'd really like to see Gruden continue. I know Gruden has his critics, but pretty much every NFL head coach has critics. Nobody's perfect (or is it pobodys nerfect?). It's one of those things that you have to be careful what you wish for. I'm sure everyone believes they can go out and find the next Belichick if Gruden was fired, but odds far favor them getting another Jim Zorn. Not to mention I'm not sure how many coaches actually want to come here anymore. Talented coaching prospects would probably go elsewhere given a choice. If Gruden goes, I fully expect this team to take several steps back. And whether it recovers? Who knows? So I'd like to see Jay succeed.

 

As for Hankins, the team really, really, really needs him. As for the negotiations, I'm not sure where they are. I know people are impatient, but I suspect the Postons are playing hardball. Hence why nothing's happened to date and may not happen for a while. Whether the Redskins played their hand correctly has yet to be seen. So I can't judge one way or another.

[skinsmania123]

1 hour ago, -JB- said:

People do not trust the process.  Trent Murphy year one was being called a bust.  He developed into a good enough backup that even after missing all of last season he got overpaid in Buffalo.  Matt Ioannidis developed into a guy who paired well with Allen along the line.  We just drafted Ryan Anderson.  If he continues to develop he can be a big piece this year.  I just want fans to stop looking always to FA to fill every hole.  Player development!  When teams start to overpay for your backups (Murphy/Grant) , that’s a great thing!  Compensatory picks.  Not sexy.  But the great organizations consistently have them.

Trent Murphy who probably had his decent year maybe because of PED's?    Come on now.  He may still be a bust with no sauce.  I am glad Buffalo took him and overpaid to boot.  Your right that is great thing.  

 

The rest of the players you mentioned, with the exception of Ryan Anderson, have shown excellent development, particularly Allen as a rookie.   I think Anderson will come along nicely this year like Ionnadis did last year in his second season.  

 

I am not looking for the Skins to fill every hole through FA but we have seeking a viable NT for how long?  You don't let a proven player out of the building.  You sign them. 

[carex]

14 minutes ago, redrobert said:

Lions signed DT Ricky Jean-Francois, formerly of the Patriots.

 

that's a plus for us.  They'll probably only sign one of the other guys they're looking at

[Burgold]

11 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

The rest of the players you mentioned, with the exception of Ryan Anderson, have shown excellent development, particularly Allen as a rookie.   I think Anderson will come along nicely this year like Ionnadis did last year in his second season.  

It's possible that the Redskins have three great teacher coaches. Gray, Tomsula, and Callahan. The latter two are known, but I really liked the way our dbs progressed under Gray. I'm hopeful he really has it.

 

I don't really have faith that our WR or RB coaches have that ability. I haven't seen as much growth in any of our receivers or running backs. I think we're pretty good at LB, but it's hard to tell since we've mostly relied on vets.

[wit33]

Anyone have an idea what the run D was ranked during time Allen was healthy? Depth is needed for sure, but a run stopping 3-4 DE at 10mil or whatever seems a bit high.

 

No one else is concerned about making him a top 5 paid player on roster?

[MisterPinstripe]

2 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Anyone have an idea what the run D was ranked during time Allen was healthy? Depth is needed for sure, but a run stopping 3-4 DE at 10mil or whatever seems a bit high.

 

No one else is concerned about making him a top 5 paid player on roster?

We were giving up 88 yards per game on the ground until Allen got hurt. And thats WITH giving up 168 to the Chiefs, 60 of which was to Alex Smith. We actually did a better job then most of containing the RBs.

[Darth Tater]

1 hour ago, Dont Taze Me Bro said:

 

We were in the nickel (4-2-5) the most and not 3-4 base.  We made the switch in 2010 and have yet to have a true NT (except Pot Roast one season) needed for the 3-4 base to work effectively.  It's a failed experiment, time to scrap it and go back to a 4-3 base.  Sure we need some better linebackers, but if you can't find a true NT to plug in 7 out of the 8 seasons, what's the freaking point of sticking with the 3-4 and lining up in the nickel most of the downs.  

 

 

I might argue that it might be 8 out of 8, wasn't 2015 Pot Roast's last real season? Yep, it looks to me like we should just fish (go for a top of the line nose and swallow the resource costs) or just cut bait.  Big argument is that we don't have the linebackers.  Going into 2004, we had only one true starting grade linebacker, a converted DE and ended up with a UDFA playing Mike (at a top level) as Trotter was cut and Barrow never was healthy.  When our true starting linebacker's season ended prematurely, another UDFA manning that position. In the 80s, our top backers were Olkie (UDFA), Milot (7), Coleman (11), Kubin (5) and Kaufman (UDFA). Under George Allen, we really never invested big on backers McLinton (6), Hanbuger (18) and Brad Dusek (who was someone else's pick). We really have never had a blue chip LB core except for Hanburger and Marshall.  Key to our good 4-3 LB play was arguably guys like Bill Brundige, Diron Talbert, Dave Butz, Perry Brooks and  Daryl Grant.

 

[skinsmania123]

4 minutes ago, Burgold said:

It's possible that the Redskins have three great teacher coaches. Gray, Tomsula, and Callahan. The latter two are known, but I really liked the way our dbs progressed under Gray. I'm hopeful he really has it.

 

I don't really have faith that our WR or RB coaches have that ability. I haven't seen as much growth in any of our receivers or running backs. I think we're pretty good at LB, but it's hard to tell since we've mostly relied on vets.

Well what is your thoughts on the draft and RB's?  Do you think we should be drafting a RB in the second round?   Our RB's have been pretty big guys to pair with CT and have unfortunately demonstrated a propensity to fumble and not get tough yards, not to mention falling down often, but not always, after first contact.  This seems to be a common thing for Skin's RB's in general over the years.  

 

Could good coaching fix this or is it where we are drafting them and an ability to really assess their talent level? I mean I really liked SM but his over the top endorsement of Matt Jones, as one example of the battering ram type was unwarranted IMO.   He is still massively supportive of Jones who has not really shown much since he was drafted in 2015.

[Commander -JB-]

33 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Trent Murphy who probably had his decent year maybe because of PED's?    Come on now.  He may still be a bust with no sauce.  I am glad Buffalo took him and overpaid to boot.  Your right that is great thing.  

 

The rest of the players you mentioned, with the exception of Ryan Anderson, have shown excellent development, particularly Allen as a rookie.   I think Anderson will come along nicely this year like Ionnadis did last year in his second season.  

 

I am not looking for the Skins to fill every hole through FA but we have seeking a viable NT for how long?  You don't let a proven player out of the building.  You sign them. 

Sure, you do.  You let them leave the building if they are demanding to make the kind of money that you don’t want to spend.  When you act out of desperation you get hosed, man.  

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Anyone have an idea what the run D was ranked during time Allen was healthy? Depth is needed for sure, but a run stopping 3-4 DE at 10mil or whatever seems a bit high.

 

No one else is concerned about making him a top 5 paid player on roster?

 

The 10 million a year is speculation. That would be more than he got last year.  You never know we will see.  

 

I don't think its relevant what the run D was ranked when Allen was healthy.  It's the main point that many of us are making.  Your D line isn't all going to be healthy all year, and you rotate heavily at that position.  If you can lose one D lineman and your run defense falls off a cliff than IMO you don't have a good D line or at best you have a very thin one.  IMO the D line isn't the position to be thin. 

[Dont Taze Me Bro]

2 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

it would appear we have scrapped it... because it's rarely used..  they just didnt have a press release about it.  

 

I think you're missing my point, or maybe not.  We line up in our base 3-4 something like 25% of snaps and in the 4-2-5 nickel like 65%.  My point is, since we never bothered to get a true NT built for the 3-4 base, lining up in it at all is pointless, imo, as it cannot be as effective as it could/should be.  The entire league has shifted lining up in a nickel package 50-60+% of the time due to the spread offenses and shift to a passing league over the years.

 

So us lining up in nickel 65% of the time does not bother me one bit (I'd like it to be a little less than 65% or whatever it was).  That's become the new norm across the league regardless of what base you run (3-4 or 4-3).  My problem is we continue to run a base 3-4 25% of the time when we still do not have the right pieces to do so going on the past 8 seasons.  That seems stupid to me.  Coaches have wanted it because it's effective when you have the right players, but we never address it with the right players.  

 

The top five defenses have 3 teams that run a base 4-3, with two being in the top spots (Vikes, Jags) and the top 3 rushing defenses are all 4-3 base (Jags, Vikes, Chargers) and the top 4 passing defenses run a 4-3 base (Eagles, Vikes, Panthers, Titans).  

 

I think we need to switch back to the 4-3 base and bring in the right guys so we are more effective on defense those snaps we do line up in our base.  Found a good article breaking down the Vikings defense (this is not insinuating that you don't know defense or anything, just a nice read I found that I wanted to share).  Basically, they line up in nickel 50+%, base 4-3 40% and rest dime.  And typically they go cover 1 or cover 2 shell. 

 

https://www.dailynorseman.com/2017/12/6/16743222/how-the-vikings-play-defense-part-i