Jump to content
Washington Football Team Logo
Extremeskins
Forum Rules and Guidelines

2018 Free Agency Database - (Signed: WILLIAMS - McPhee - Scandrick - P-Rich) - (Lauvao, Bergstrom, Nsehke, Taylor, Z. Brown and Quick re-signed)

DC9

By DC9
in The Stadium

Recommended Posts

Unbias

Unbias

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

they cant afford both can they? 

The thing I've noticed with the cap recently is that teams can do whatever they want as long as they know how to property structure new contracts and have a good understanding of what other contracts can be restructured. 

 

Look at the Eagles. they were running at ~$10M over the cap leading up to free agency. Per overthecap.com they are currently $6.2M under the cap. Sure they let some guys go (Curry, Celek) and made some trades (Smith), but they still brought in or brought back some decent players in Ngata, Bradham and Bennett. I'd say there's a chance they are actually a better roster while being pushed against the cap the entire time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

 

 

A guy that can only play the run and cannot generate a pass rush is no where near as impactful as all of the above positions I just listed. No way you should pick a guy that high that doesn't do more. Especially in this defense. Later in the draft sure but not at 13. Heck I don't think either one of those guys are even the top players at the position to be honest but are getting all the love for it.

 

All of the spots I listed would be more helpful at the number 13 slot than a NT. Vea and Payne are not going to line up on the edge in passing situations. They have a history of not getting pressure on QB's in college so why would that suddenly change now? We have a nice FA nose that can be picked up right now with a contract that they can get out of quickly with cap room to spare and they are being cheap. 

 

Also if Nelson at guard, Edmunds at edge, Smith at ILB, Fitzpatrick and James at safety, Ward or Jackson at corner are on that board and we pick up a NT then that is a hilariously stupid move. Vea nor Payne compare in talent to the guys I just listed. One of those guys will be there and if we used 13 for a two down player then I don't know what else to say here. It's not smart. Bottom line is we have had several chances at addressing NT this free agency period and are being cheap and I just hope beyond hope that we do not waste that pick on one.

I don't think you give enough credit to the two guys who were playing hurt last year.   We were one of the best teams in regard to pass rush.... 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000915923/article/eagles-redskins-seahawks-head-nfls-best-passrushing-units

 

Our major issue on defense is run defense... and it's the biggest hole on the team.  

 

 

If Nelson is there, you HAVE to take him... but he wont be there.  Smith and Edmunds wont be there either.  If they are I'd absolutely be ok with taking any of these guys... but they have to be worth that pick.  You're stance on reaching for a DT not being ok, but you would rather us draft a different position that likely wont have a player available WORTH that pick is a double standard.   Taking an RB at 13 because your opinion is that it's more important than a DT sounds like a contradiction.... if nobody at RB is worth no. 13.   

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
clskinsfan

clskinsfan

Posted
Posted
Just now, fordranger76 said:

@clskinsfan Roger that. I got confused which is easily done haha. I understand not wanting to pay out the ass for a NT too but I feel like if we were going to do that Hankins is the guy to do it with. I am just super frustrated seeing guys leave that could help this team.

Yeah. I edited my post as it was confusing. The only way I could see drafting a NT at 13 is IF they were not only a beast run stuffer but a capable pass rusher as well. And neither of those guys are very good at it. Not to say they cant be coached up. But i am not trying to waste the 13th pick on a guy that needs to be coached up. At 13 you want a player that is ready to play.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Unbias

Unbias

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, actorguy1 said:

Lions have a few million less in cap space than Redskins do. See if it makes a difference 

What does cap space really have to do with it? I'm being serious. 

 

Kirk, who got paid the most, didn't go to the team with the most cap space. It all comes down to what the team is offering. They can structure the deal to have a small cap hit in the first year where the player gets a big payment up front (singing bonus). 

 

It has less to do with how much cap space a team has, but rather how they structure their contracts. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
carex

carex

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, fordranger76 said:

Missing on the number 13 pick in the draft is not as harmful? To each their own I suppose. If you reach on a player at 13 that is how you get busts. Hell even Poe was drafted high and has still yet to reach that draft slot and he never will. 

 

A guy that can only play the run and cannot generate a pass rush is no where near as impactful as all of the above positions I just listed. No way you should pick a guy that high that doesn't do more. Especially in this defense. Later in the draft sure but not at 13. Heck I don't think either one of those guys are even the top players at the position to be honest but are getting all the love for it.

 

All of the spots I listed would be more helpful at the number 13 slot than a NT. Vea and Payne are not going to line up on the edge in passing situations. They have a history of not getting pressure on QB's in college so why would that suddenly change now? We have a nice FA nose that can be picked up right now with a contract that they can get out of quickly with cap room to spare and they are being cheap. 

 

Also if Nelson at guard, Edmunds at edge, Smith at ILB, Fitzpatrick and James at safety, Ward or Jackson at corner are on that board and we pick up a NT then that is a hilariously stupid move. Vea nor Payne compare in talent to the guys I just listed. One of those guys will be there and if we used 13 for a two down player then I don't know what else to say here. It's not smart. Bottom line is we have had several chances at addressing NT this free agency period and are being cheap and I just hope beyond hope that we do not waste that pick on one.

 

both Vea and Payne are regarded as having pass rush potential and I feel any of the picks you suggest are just as wasteful as you think picking an NT is

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Unbias

Unbias

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

How is a guy like Payne or Vea not an impact player?  

 

Typically if teams are counting on a rookie to be an 'impact player' that means they are a bad team. 

 

I'd say don't count on anything from your rookies. Any production you get is gravy. Make sure you can roster a vet team and make sure you develop your rookies with their long term in mind. Rushing someone in can lead to disaster and in all honestly you don't know what a rookie can handle until they are in training camp and preseason games. 

 

Let's look at our last year's draft and if we needed our first 3 picks to perform:

 

1 (17) - Jonathan Allen - Played really well, but got worn out and missed significant time. 

2 (49) - LB Ryan Anderson - I like him, but he didn't start a single game. 

3 (81) - CB Fabian Moreau - He was active, but never started. 

 

Personally I think it's just bad for teams to trust their rookies into a starting gig. Sometimes it works out, but when you think of the players, it's extremely tough. They go from a potential bowl game to training for the combine to doing workouts to being drafted to rookie camp to training camp to the regular season. If they had an average course load they are pretty much going all out from the start of their last year in college to the end of their rookie season. It's just so rare for players not to get a bit burnt out. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fordranger76

fordranger76

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, OVCChairman said:

I don't think you give enough credit to the two guys who were playing hurt last year.   We were one of the best teams in regard to pass rush.... 

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000915923/article/eagles-redskins-seahawks-head-nfls-best-passrushing-units

 

Our major issue on defense is run defense... and it's the biggest hole on the team.  

 

 

If Nelson is there, you HAVE to take him... but he wont be there.  Smith and Edmunds wont be there either.  If they are I'd absolutely be ok with taking any of these guys... but they have to be worth that pick.  You're stance on reaching for a DT not being ok, but you would rather us draft a different position that likely wont have a player available WORTH that pick is a double standard.   Taking an RB at 13 because your opinion is that it's more important than a DT sounds like a contradiction.... if nobody at RB is worth no. 13.   

 

You are assuming those guys wont be there. You have no idea of who will fall. Allen fell last year and we were all shocked. And Guice whom I forgot to add, could very easily go higher than people are projecting. And if I am given a choice of Guice vs Vea? Yeah I would take Guice ten out of ten times. And a lot of people would not consider that a reach at all considering some people actually have him ranked higher than Barkley. Not my stance but there are people that see it. Look Im not against adding a NT in the draft. Infact I love Harrison Phillips and would kill to have him. But in the second and not higher. My preferred method still is FA though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
Just now, Unbias said:

 

Typically if teams are counting on a rookie to be an 'impact player' that means they are a bad team. 

 

I'd say don't count on anything from your rookies. Any production you get is gravy. Make sure you can roster a vet team and make sure you develop your rookies with their long term in mind. Rushing someone in can lead to disaster and in all honestly you don't know what a rookie can handle until they are in training camp and preseason games. 

 

I disagree.  If you're a .500 or below football team... you need to attack the draft looking for a starter.... and Payne or Vea would be better than what we have on the roster at the position.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, fordranger76 said:

You are assuming those guys wont be there. You have no idea of who will fall. Allen fell last year and we were all shocked. And Guice whom I forgot to add, could very easily go higher than people are projecting. And if I am given a choice of Guice vs Vea? Yeah I would take Guice ten out of ten times. And a lot of people would not consider that a reach at all considering some people actually have him ranked higher than Barkley. Not my stance but there are people that see it. Look Im not against adding a NT in the draft. Infact I love Harrison Phillips and would kill to have him. But in the second and not higher. My preferred method still is FA though.

 

Dude, i quoted you and said that I'd be ok with taking them... but i'm also not holding my breath.  I wasn't holding my breath with Allen last year.

 

This conversation started with you rattling off multiple positions that have more impact that NT.  That's a blanket statement that I disagreed with.  You don't take RB, OG, ILB, Edge, CB, or S at 13 if there isn't a player there worth that pick.  In MY opinion, Payne and/or Vea will likely be there at 13 and those guys you mentioned  wont.  I was simply saying that you cant tell me it's better to take an RB at 13 than one of the two DTs simply because it's the 1st round and you think it's more of a need.  The guys you mentioned are likely to go top 10, and a few of them top 5.  Of course if Barkley falls you take him... same with Nelson, Smith, Edmunds.... but I don't want us to reach on an RB just to say we got a '1st round RB' at camp... he's gotta be worth it.  And if we can take a DT in the 1st, followed by an RB in the 2nd that has VERY little dropoff... I'd prefer that too. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
MartinC

MartinC

Posted
Posted

I understand the draft and free agency are linked (to an extent) BUT if anyone wants to get into draft nerd mode we have a thread for that. Lets take the specific draft discussion there and leave this thread for people asking if we have signed Hankins yet ...

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
Just now, MartinC said:

I understand the draft and free agency are linked (to an extent) BUT if anyone wants to get into draft nerd mode we have a thread for that. Lets take the specific draft discussion there and leave this thread for people asking if we have signed Hankins yet ...

 

 

My bad... got rollin' and kept goin :cheers:

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fordranger76

fordranger76

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, MartinC said:

I understand the draft and free agency are linked (to an extent) BUT if anyone wants to get into draft nerd mode we have a thread for that. Lets take the specific draft discussion there and leave this thread for people asking if we have signed Hankins yet ...

My apologies. Upset at Hankins leaving without a contract and was looking at next options. Won't happen again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
OVCChairman

OVCChairman

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, fordranger76 said:

My apologies. Upset at Hankins leaving without a contract and was looking at next options. Won't happen again.

and to your point here, i would like us to get Hankins... I've been hoping we grab him.. the other discussion went way out there.... 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
WelshSkinsFan

WelshSkinsFan

Posted
Posted
16 minutes ago, Unbias said:

What does cap space really have to do with it? I'm being serious. 

 

Kirk, who got paid the most, didn't go to the team with the most cap space. It all comes down to what the team is offering. They can structure the deal to have a small cap hit in the first year where the player gets a big payment up front (singing bonus). 

 

It has less to do with how much cap space a team has, but rather how they structure their contracts. 

 

The major issue is the pay now or pay later argument.  The Redskins have decided on pay as you go attitude, they generally spend most if not all of what theyhave but leave almost no dead money on the books, the teams getting creative keep kicking the can down the road but eventually need to suck it up and swallow a ton of dead money and purge their rosters.  It happened to the Saints thanks to the endless re-structuring of Brees deal and was a big factor in why they went 7-9 3 straight years even with a future HOF at QB and on the sideline, the Cowboys are living in eternal cap hell hence their complete lack of FA signings and the Bills are eating $43 million in dead money this year to get things under control and that is why their best D lineman and O lineman were traded in the last few months.

 

There is not a better way, rich rewards can come with the gamble of creative contracts but like a good night on the whiskey the morning after can be hell.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SkinsGuy

SkinsGuy

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

You act as if there is no reason to point fingers at them.  LOL.  Maybe in another 25 years we will be relevant again. Perronally I don't have that long.  

 

You act as if my post is serious.

 

I blame Allen for that, and that ****ing Snyder too. :) 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
bobandweave

bobandweave

Posted
Posted
34 minutes ago, MEANDWARF said:

Falcons don't have much in cap space and have been keeping quiet during FA. Working on an extension for Matt Ryan. Interesting to see what happens.

 

So much for this guy making a decision last night...or was that someone else?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
SkinsGuy

SkinsGuy

Posted
Posted
17 hours ago, DiscoBob said:

 

I lost my job today (no joke)...

 

Are you telling me that it's Bruce's fault?  Thanks Skins for twenty years of misery...now you get me fired!?

 

 

You'll do well around here. ;) 

 

I hope you will find an even better job quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Malapropismic Depository

Malapropismic Depository

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Not following your logic.  Cousins put up those crazy numbers because he played well with a very limited supporting cast.  Unless you are prepared to argue that no running game what so ever, Grant, Doc, under performing Crowder and backup tight ends were considered good weapons.  Now Smith will be in a better position than the cast Kirk was saddled with. But everyone agrees even at full strength this offense does not have the talent that KC offense had.  

 

 

 

I was saying :

Kirk succeeds in this offense.

So, insert Smith into basically the same offense (plus Richardson).

How could someone of Smith's talent not succeed in the same offense ?

It may sound oversimplifying, but it really is simple - the offenses ('17 Skins & '18 Skins) and the QB's are so close to being similar.

It then becomes irrelevant what Smith had in KC, or to compare KC's offense to WAS offense.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...