The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, dicksogj said:

 

This is absolutely not the way the process should work in the offseason, but knowing the Redskins it likely will occur in this manner.  Most successful teams would spend a lot of time & pick the rt GM (or whatever you want to call them) before doing anything else in the offseason. That GM would then subsequently select the next head coach after consulting with other members of the organization.  Hopefully this organization has learned from past mistakes, but I doubt it.

 

I don't mind an unconventional process where the Head Coach is the guy in charge and he hires his general manager.

 

The idea isn't necessarily to have a "traditional" structure, in my opinion. It's to have a structure that makes sense. The head coach can function as the guy higher on the food chain than the GM. I don't think that's an issue. In fact, I'd prefer the head coach to hire a guy he trusts to find the players that fit his scheme vs. the head coach being the GM and head coach on a full-time basis. 

 

I'm also fine with the GM hiring the head coach. That gives you more long term stability in the front office to fulfill a vision. 

 

What I'm not okay with i the head coach being hired by Snyder and it not being a CEO type, and then Snyder turns around  and hires a GM. That's a mistake. That's where the problem lies.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Jerry doesn’t meddle.  He’s the President and GM.  The website says so.  Everybody who goes there knows this.  Now, he’s delegated more to his son in recent years, but Jerry is in charge. 

 

And Snyder has the reputation of actually meddling, ie: technically giving authority to somebody else and then subverting them. 

 

Dallas’ roster is much better.  They are the biggest show in town and they have a rabid fan base. 

 

The Skins have an owner that has a reputation of getting in the way, an “ok” roster and a fan base in revolt. Whatever of it is left. 

 

I just doubt it would happen without a Jon Gruden type contract. 

 

Now if THAT is in the cards, then anything is possible.  Because as I said before, if Jerry offers you 5 years at 8 mil to be the coach, but he’s still the GM, is that better than Dan’s 10M for 10 years and full control?  Could somebody legitimately turn down $60M and full authority?  I doubt it. 

 

 

 

Jerry is actually a good example that might bring hope.  He meddles.  Dan meddles.  But Jerry has a killer-revered personnel guy in Will Mcclay who manages both pro and college personnel.  Jerry being Jerry will get in his own way.  Just like Dan will.  Dan IMO is worse for multiple reasons but the main one for me is Jerry at least is likable and accessible.   Dan is a recluse and hides from the fan base and is afraid to take the heat and prefers to do his thing in the dark.

 

Cowboys though as you pointed out have a better roster.  And while they may never win another SB, they are relevant and have a much better record than we do typically. 

[@DCGoldPants]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Jerry is actually a good example that might bring hope.  He meddles.  Dan meddles.  But Jerry has a killer-revered personnel guy in Will Mcclay who manages both pro and college personnel.  Jerry being Jerry will get in his own way.  Just like Dan will.  Dan IMO is worse for multiple reasons but the main one for me is Jerry at least is likable and accessible.   Dan is a recluse and hides from the fan base and is afraid to take the heat and prefers to do his thing in the dark.

 

Cowboys though as you pointed out have a better roster.  And while they may never win another SB, they are relevant and have a much better record than we do typically. 

 

"But Jerry played college football"....... whatever. 

 

Jones is a wet dream for owners in the NFL, especially owners with winning teams. He makes them a ton of money but he doesn't really put together a team that is a consistent threat to their championship dreams. Snyder, on the other hand, took what amounted to a money printing machine for the league and keeps tinkering with it thinking he can make it run 10x, but really it's less than half speed now. 

[dicksogj]

35 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't mind an unconventional process where the Head Coach is the guy in charge and he hires his general manager.

 

The idea isn't necessarily to have a "traditional" structure, in my opinion. It's to have a structure that makes sense. The head coach can function as the guy higher on the food chain than the GM. I don't think that's an issue. In fact, I'd prefer the head coach to hire a guy he trusts to find the players that fit his scheme vs. the head coach being the GM and head coach on a full-time basis. 

 

I'm also fine with the GM hiring the head coach. That gives you more long term stability in the front office to fulfill a vision. 

 

What I'm not okay with i the head coach being hired by Snyder and it not being a CEO type, and then Snyder turns around  and hires a GM. That's a mistake. That's where the problem lies.

 

I don't mind an out-of-the-box setup for most teams, but I am not so sure that is a good idea for the Redskins.  I guess that the most recent setup like this is for the Raiders when they hired Mayock after hiring Gruden & I guess that is TBD.  You say that you need to have a structure that makes sense - for the Skins I will believe that when I see it.  Hiring the coach first to me just reeks of allowing to Snyder to meddle even more.  Hiring a true GM 1st would more likely send a message that Snyder is not in control as much. However I guess that he could meddle in either situation.  BTW - for this reason I would rather both the GM & coach come from the outside - I just think that is much easier for either to be a puppet if they are hired from within.

 

Oh well - again doesn't really matter what we believe since Snyder is going to do as he pleases & doesn't really care about the opinions of the fans or media.  I will just be happy if for starters they fire Allen or place him in a different role.

[Enforcer_FFX]

59 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It makes sense to me if Dan's going to do it, it would be after the season especially if its billed as a retirement.  You don't retire with 2 weeks to go in the season. 

Agreed.  Bruce is Dan's friend - so, I don't think he wants to outright FIRE him.  Dan will allow him to retire after the season.  It's also been reported, like in the Ben Standing tweet you posted, that Dan had his 4 hrs long meeting after the last game with Alex - and no Bruce.  Usually, Bruce is there.  

 

And a retirement - fine with me.  Don't really care about the technical reason he goes - just want Bruce gone.

[kingdaddy]

1 hour ago, dicksogj said:

 

This is absolutely not the way the process should work in the offseason, but knowing the Redskins it likely will occur in this manner.  Most successful teams would spend a lot of time & pick the rt GM (or whatever you want to call them) before doing anything else in the offseason. That GM would then subsequently select the next head coach after consulting with other members of the organization.  Hopefully this organization has learned from past mistakes, but I doubt it.

I agree with you, but if your theory is correct, then Dan is likely keeping Bruce or he would've been gone by now. Why wait to fire Bruce til after the season and lose all that time to find a coach to be hired by the new GM? 

[bakedtater1]

56 minutes ago, @SkinsGoldPants said:

 

"But Jerry played college football"....... whatever. 

 

Jones is a wet dream for owners in the NFL, especially owners with winning teams. He makes them a ton of money but he doesn't really put together a team that is a consistent threat to their championship dreams. Snyder, on the other hand, took what amounted to a money printing machine for the league and keeps tinkering with it thinking he can make it run 10x, but really it's less than half speed now. 

"Fifty dolla bill", "fifty dolla bill"..lol

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Jerry is actually a good example that might bring hope.  He meddles.  Dan meddles.  But Jerry has a killer-revered personnel guy in Will Mcclay who manages both pro and college personnel.  Jerry being Jerry will get in his own way.  Just like Dan will.  Dan IMO is worse for multiple reasons but the main one for me is Jerry at least is likable and accessible.   Dan is a recluse and hides from the fan base and is afraid to take the heat and prefers to do his thing in the dark.

 

Cowboys though as you pointed out have a better roster.  And while they may never win another SB, they are relevant and have a much better record than we do typically. 

I guess it's semantics.  I just don't believe if you have given yourself the title of "President and General Manager" you "meddle."  At that point, you ARE the decision maker. That's not meddling.  

 

I actually think Dan COULD be likable. And more accessible.  But he has such mistrust for the media, it is not going to happen. 

 

Before he stopped talking to everybody, he did a few interviews here and there, and didn't come off poorly.  The last one I remember was with Kevin and Cooley at training camp.  I don't remember the year, but it was shortly after Cooley retired, so 2013 or 2014, and he was very relaxed, told a story about why he refused to put a case of beer as a signing bonus in Cooley's 2012 contract, made some jokes, and was actually very personable and likable.  Now, consider the setting.  Cooley wasn't going to ask him anything difficult, as the two of them are ... friends? Or something like that? And Kevin was smart enough to know to keep his trap shut most of the time and just let the two of them have a conversation.

 

He also did an interview, I think with Vinny and whoever was running college scouting at the time leading up to either the 2008 or 2009 draft.  It was with Doc and somebody, because I remember Doc asking Dan how they came up with decisions, and Dan explained the process.  Now, was it a lie?  I don't know.  But again, he didn't come off as an arrogant ass. 

 

The real problem is that for the first 3 years of his tenure as owner, the media KILLED him for EVERYTHING.  And most of it was deserved.   Firing Norv in season.  Firing Marty.  Signing every aging FA out there.  Hiring Spurrier.  Charging for training camp. Trying to force Norv to play Jeff George instead of Brad Johnson.  Putting bleachers in the end-zones of FedEx to squeeze every penny out of the venue.  The list goes on.  He made some BAD decisions, and he was completely roasted for all of them.  And I honestly think he's got some type of post-traumatic-media-abuse syndrome, and now he just stays in the background and has absolutely no intention of speaking to the media basically ever again. At least not do a press conference. Maybe a few 1:1, but that's it.  

 

And the Washington Post just screwed it up again.  They wanted to run a piece on how awful the last 20 years of Snyder's ownership has been (to add to the other 40 articles on the same topic on the 20 year anniversary of his ownership), and they asked the Redskins for comment.  The Redskins countered with running an interview with Snyder instead of the article.  But they had to essentially agree to run the full interview. And the Post turned it down because they wanted to run the article they had planned.  I think that was a horrible mistake. You have the opportunity to get the first on-the-record interview with Snyder in at least 4 or 5 years, you take it. And you can run the "the last 20 years of ownership has sucked" as a "the last 21 years of ownership has sucked" the next year.  

 

But instead of just an uninterpreted interview with Dan, the Post wanted to make a statement.  Which goes back to the fact Dan just believes anything he says is going to be crushed, so why say anything at all?

 

I loath Bruce.  But some of the questions he got in the press conference he conducted after Jay was fired were just not helpful.  "Are you willing to apologize to the fans right now for the ..." I mean, come on.  He's not going to do that and the question was honestly off-putting.  It was media grandstanding.  Dan sees this, probably looks at a picture of his yacht, and says, "yeah, there's no reason for me to do that."  And goes on with his life.  

 

If you remember, he was very out there and accessible early in his ownership. I remember going to a game where they were putting somebody into the ring of fame, and Dan actually spoke on the field at half time welcoming whoever it was into the ring of fame.  Clearly that would never happen now.  It changed a bit over time.  And it flipped 180 degrees when he hired Bruce to basically be the spokesperson of the team going forward.  

 

And THAT, almost more than anything else, is why I think Bruce still has a job.  Dan doesn't have any inclination to talk to the media ever again.  And Bruce does that for Dan, and Dan needs to find somebody to do it for him if he replaces Bruce.  

[BringMetheHeadofBruceAllen]

34 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

And THAT, almost more than anything else, is why I think Bruce still has a job.  Dan doesn't have any inclination to talk to the media ever again.  And Bruce does that for Dan, and Dan needs to find somebody to do it for him if he replaces Bruce.  

 

I believe that's why Brucifer will always have a job here...but the problem is Bruce doesn't talk to the media either! When something embarrassing has to be addressed, he sends out Doug Will-ams.

 

I think it all started to go south for Dan when he sued that little old lady for her season tickets, and then sued City Paper out of existence because Dave McKenna wrote the hater's guide to Dan Snyder. Around the same time Dan had his fingers all over Six Flags, and instituted a policy that patrons who left the park for any reason (like, to get baby formula for their child) would have to pay full price to come back into the park.

 

He seems to think donating to charities should make him immune from criticism, which is exactly what he said to John Feinstein in a restaurant once. Snyder literally told him that because he was a fellow Jew and that he donated millions to charities that Feinstein should go easy on him. That didn't go over too well with Feinstein.

 

Does this sound like a good person to anyone? Dan hides in his office suite and doesn't talk to the media because he doesn't trust them...but it's his OWN FAULT. He seems incapable of self-reflection or introspection, or humility even. Bruce will always be here in some capacity, I fear.

[HigSkin]

🤣🤣

 

 

Ouch...

 

 

GMs and dates fired:

Jerry Reese Dec. 4

Phil Emery Dec. 29

Jerry Angelo Jan. 3

Martin Mayhew Nov. 5

Sashi Brown Dec. 7

Floyd Reese Jan. 5

AJ Smith Dec. 31

Trent Balke Jan. 1

[HigSkin]

 

[method man]

Dave Caldwell, the Jags GM, is a guy to keep an eye on as a candidate. He has done a good job under Coughlin and will be fired because of Coughlin and Marrone

[Voice_of_Reason]

50 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

GMs and dates fired:

Jerry Reese Dec. 4

Phil Emery Dec. 29

Jerry Angelo Jan. 3

Martin Mayhew Nov. 5

Sashi Brown Dec. 7

Floyd Reese Jan. 5

AJ Smith Dec. 31

Trent Balke Jan. 1

Vinny, Dec 17th.  I think that's probably the most important comp.  

[RandyHolt]

Dan must have hired a consultant, who advised him to **** can Vinny on 12/17. 

 

Left to his own devices - he will start his search in earnest after Bruce resigns.

[Voice_of_Reason]

13 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

Dan must have hired a consultant, who advised him to **** can Vinny on 12/17. 

 

Left to his own devices - he will start his search in earnest after Bruce resigns.

Nah, I think Dan knew after the Zorn debacle he needed to do something.  He went to Shanahan early in the season and locked him down, (this is a typical Dan move) and then Mike recommended Allen in some form to Dan as GM/Exec.  

 

I still think Dan knows what he is going to do, but doesn't want to do it yet for whatever reason.  So the "he hasn't made up his mind" reports are out there because somebody is putting them out there.

 

There is no way ANYBODY knows what Dan is thinking except for Dan, and maybe his wife.  That's it.  That's the list.  And Dan wouldn't leak that himself.  And I doubt he's telling any of his folks to leak it because he KNOWS it would be unpopular.  So he's just keeping quiet.  

 

So any report on whether or not he has made up his mind was planted by somebody who is not Dan or Tanya, or is pure speculation.

[dicksogj]

50 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Vinny, Dec 17th.  I think that's probably the most important comp.  

 

Wow - the 10th anniversary today.  This would probably also be great day to fire Allen (as would any other day).

 

[RandyHolt]

59 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Nah, I think Dan knew after the Zorn debacle he needed to do something.  He went to Shanahan early in the season and locked him down, (this is a typical Dan move) and then Mike recommended Allen in some form to Dan as GM/Exec. 

 

Mike recommended Allen?  I would speculate not, not with the Allen family ties to the team. Dan loves nostalgia and have long assumed that had a hand in the hire. I would also say I bet Mike immediately didn't like the hire. I think the Allen family here, evolving to Bruce, became the gateway to our Tampa and Oakland based obsession.  And ineptness.

[Andre The Giant]

1 hour ago, method man said:

Dave Caldwell, the Jags GM, is a guy to keep an eye on as a candidate. He has done a good job under Coughlin and will be fired because of Coughlin and Marrone

I hope not. They’re one of the few teams who’s been worse than us. Caldwell’s results were terrible before Coughlin and Marrine got there. 

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Mike recommended Allen?  I would speculate not, not with the Allen family ties to the team. Dan loves nostalgia and have long assumed that had a hand in the hire. I would also say I bet Mike immediately didn't like the hire. I think the Allen family here, evolving to Bruce, became the gateway to our Tampa and Oakland based obsession.  And ineptness.

 

I recall reporters saying then Shanny was on board because Bruce was seen as a pure money guy so it would fit Shanny since he would work on the personnel.  But supposedly to some who covered the team, Bruce's ambitions extended beyond that including when Shanny was there.  And Bruce knew how to play Dan like a fiddle in part by agreeing to Dan's whims especially at QB.  The rest is history.  If you asked Shanny back then could you imagine Bruce being the final say on personnel he'd probably laugh and see it as incredulous. 

[Wildbunny]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I recall reporters saying then Shanny was on board because Bruce was seen as a pure money guy so it would fit Shanny since he would work on the personnel.

That was Bruce reputation when he camed here. Being good with money stuff. And he did a good job on this overall (though he did got us 36M penalty as well). Sadly he wanted to show the world that he's a football guy. Which he's not.

[justice98]

13 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

That was Bruce reputation when he camed here. Being good with money stuff. And he did a good job on this overall (though he did got us 36M penalty as well). Sadly he wanted to show the world that he's a football guy. Which he's not.

 

The penalty was under his watch indeed, but it was still a sham though.  

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't mind an unconventional process where the Head Coach is the guy in charge and he hires his general manager.

 

 

 

i don't like this idea at all.  A coach's mentality is to do whatever it takes to win this Sunday, so they do not always have what's best for the team long term in mind.  And if he is the one in charge that's when a team makes short sighted trades designed to win this Sunday.  

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[bakedtater1]

Theres also a reason spielman couldn't get a single players name right for the skins..calling Jeremy sprinkle something like tavon sprinkle or something lol..one to many dings to the head for that man

[Burgold]

Is Urban Meyer interested in coming here not as coach, but as GM? Color me curious. He certainly has developed a great eye for talent and has a ton of experience in recruiting/wooing players which might be translatable to free agency.

 

Curious.