General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[Springfield]

3 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

So everyone who owns guns and advocates for the second amendment in the United States is now responsible for this killing?  When the next person dies that’s my fault?

 

What solution do you propose?

 

Do you want to stop mass murders by gun entirely?  Take all the guns away.  Compell gun owners to turn them in with money.

 

Do you just want to cut down on mass murders by gun?  Complete psychological test of anyone who owns a gun and any person over the age of 16 in the same household.  Anyone who fails is exempt from owning a gun in the entire household.  Medical history of mental illness (including soft stuff like depression and anxiety) makes the entire household exempt.  Institute a voluntary buy back of any guns.  No same day gun purchases.  Mandatory testing for proficiency.  Mag capacity limit, limit the number of mags one can own per gun.  National registration of firearms.

 

 

Thats a start.

[AsburySkinsFan]

12 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

So everyone who owns guns and advocates for the second amendment in the United States is now responsible for this killing?  When the next person dies that’s my fault?

 

What solution do you propose?

Stop getting your panties in a wad. And actually listen to what he said. Your right to own a gun is completely and utterly distinguishable from your privilege to own a gun. That is the key and fundamental difference between a workable solution or the perpetuation of the status quo. 

 

Are the lives of innocent children across this country worth the price for you to shift your mindset about gun ownership from a divine right to own as much military grade hardware as you desire to a privilege to own that hardware?

Edited February 15, 2018 by AsburySkinsFan

[Commander PK]

9 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

We could just dust off the bill drafted in Australia when they decided to address this very issue and change a few names and dates. But of course that would never get passed into law here. 

 

Lets not pretend solutions don't exist. It's just that we don't have the will to accept them.

 

I guess you think American gun owners will just hand them over?  To who?  Half of those that would enforce a confiscation both military and police would side with the gun owners if not more.  I dare say most would resign or refuse those orders. 

[The Evil Genius]

Just read that it's much easier to buy an AR-15 than a handgun in Florida.

 

No 3 day waiting period and only have to be 18 (not 21).

 

How does that even make sense?

[MartinC]

Just now, Painkiller said:

 

I guess you think American gun owners will just hand them over?  To who?  Half of those that would enforce a confiscation both military and police would side with the gun owners if not more.  I dare say most would resign or refuse those orders. 

 

So you confirm what I said earlier. The killing of children at school is a price worth paying to keep your guns. 

 

I guess you have to live with that. Actually - sadly we all do.

[AsburySkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

I guess you think American gun owners will just hand them over?  To who?  Half of those that would enforce a confiscation both military and police would side with the gun owners if not more.  I dare say most would resign or refuse those orders. 

With proper incentives, yes

4 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Just read that it's much easier to buy an AR-15 than a handgun in Florida.

 

No 3 day waiting period and only have to be 18 (not 21).

 

How does that even make sense?

 It doesn’t make any sense! The handgun should be at least as easy to buy as the AR!!

[bearrock]

14 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

Specifically to this point I will use myself as an example.  If I sold one of my guns to somebody right now, unless the gun is eventually used in a crime you would never know the sale existed.  If it is used in a mass killing and the gun eventually traced back to me, that still didn’t stop the killing.  Just makes me partly responsible.  Again, our goal is to STOP the killings. 

 

We we can pass whatever we want.  Enforcing it is something else entirely.  If your goal is to make a real impact on these shootings you need enforceable solutions.  

 

But if we criminalize private sales, wouldn't that stop you from selling your gun to someone in private?

 

You're right, our goal is to stop the killing.  And one proposed way of stopping the killing is to prevent these psychopaths from getting their hands on these destructive weapons.  There are two groups right?  Group 1 is psychos who already have the weapons.  Group 2 is psychos who have not yet been able to obtain it.  Your point about genie being out of the bottle is right for Group 1.  But if we ban private sale (assuming that people will obey the law) and if we make purchase of these weapons from a licensed dealers a lot harder, doesn't that lower the number in Group 2?  And if people disobey the ban on private sale and a few are prosecuted, at some point, wouldn't private sales eventually stop?  It may not thwart group 1, but it seems to me that it will help thwart group 2.  

 

Edited February 15, 2018 by bearrock

[Koala]

2 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

So this ****head trained with white power militias.

 

 

Young, white males are increasingly becoming radicalized in this country. When will we take it seriously?

 

 

AND still, people wont use the "T" word to describe this action.  Hmmm, lets see how this works

 

1. Wanted to inflict as much terror as possible on innocent and unsuspecting people?  Check.
2. Trained with an armed group readying for a war against a perceived enemy?  Check
3. Subscribes to a radical belief system?  Check
4. Is White or Caucasian?  Uncheck, uncheck, uncheck!

[Bozo the kKklown]

3 minutes ago, Koala said:

 

 

AND still, people wont use the "T" word to describe this action.  Hmmm, lets see how this works

 

1. Wanted to inflict as much terror as possible on innocent and unsuspecting people?  Check.
2. Trained with an armed group readying for a war against a perceived enemy?  Check
3. Subscribes to a radical belief system?  Check
4. Is White or Caucasian?  Uncheck, uncheck, uncheck!

[Larry]

15 minutes ago, No Excuses said:

Young, white males are increasingly becoming radicalized in this country. When will we take it seriously?

 

I propose that the liberal media immediately begin a campaign of demanding to know exactly when President Trump will use the exact phrase "extremist Republican terrorism".  

 

(Sorry for the snark.  Dead children have that effect on me.)  

 

 

[Commander PK]

10 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Hyperbole much?  

 

 

Having read several of your contributions to this thread, lately?  Yep.  It is.  

 

 

Was the question not do gun owners/advocates value our guns more than the lives of 17 children?

 

[Koala]

3 minutes ago, bearrock said:

 

But if we criminalize private sales, wouldn't that stop you from selling your gun to someone in private?

 

You're right, our goal is to stop the killing.  And one proposed way of stopping the killing is to prevent these psychopaths from getting their hands on these destructive weapons.  There are two groups right?  Group 1 is psychos who already has the weapon.  Group 2 is psychos who has not yet been able to obtain it.  Your point about genie being out of the bottle is right for Group 1.  But if we ban private sale (assuming that people will obey the law) and if we make purchase of these weapons from a licensed dealers a lot harder, doesn't that lower the number in Group 2?  And if people disobey the ban on private sale and a few are prosecuted, at some point, wouldn't private sales eventually stop?  It may not thwart group 1, but it seems to me that it will help thwart group 2.  

 

 

The alt-right has framed the debate so that only solutions that completely eradicate the problem will be considered for legislation.  Partially thwarting or lowering the number of a subgroup of undesirable actions is not enough of a benefit to touch the holy 2nd amendment

[twa]

23 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Just read that it's much easier to buy an AR-15 than a handgun in Florida.

 

No 3 day waiting period and only have to be 18 (not 21).

 

How does that even make sense?

 

Because long guns are harder to conceal and are used in crimes less often, pretty simple.

[Llevron]

5 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Because long guns are harder to conceal and are used in crimes less often, pretty simple.

 

AR-15s are used almost exclusively in mass shootings. So by that logic it would be pretty simple to at the least raise the age limit. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Llevron

[AsburySkinsFan]

19 minutes ago, Koala said:

 

 

AND still, people wont use the "T" word to describe this action.  Hmmm, lets see how this works

 

1. Wanted to inflict as much terror as possible on innocent and unsuspecting people?  Check.
2. Trained with an armed group readying for a war against a perceived enemy?  Check
3. Subscribes to a radical belief system?  Check
4. Is White or Caucasian?  Uncheck, uncheck, uncheck!

To be a terrorist you need to be a membdr of a group. Because apparently going solo is something else.

[Popeman38]

54 minutes ago, The Evil Genius said:

Just read that it's much easier to buy an AR-15 than a handgun in Florida.

 

No 3 day waiting period and only have to be 18 (not 21).

 

How does that even make sense?

Because you are literally 3 times more likely to die via handgun than by AR15 (homicide). Handguns are much more prevalent than AR15s. AR15s get all the press because of events like Sandy Hook, Las Vegas, and Parkland.  Events like yesterday bring gun violence to the forefront of our national conscience. But there are 7 children/teenagers killed every day by gun violence (https://everytownresearch.org/gun-violence-by-the-numbers/).  Why are those lives not valued? Statistics prove that handguns are much more likely to kill you or your kids.  But handguns don't look scary and aren't on the news for 3 days after a mass shooting. The Virginia Tech shooting was done with 2 handguns.

 

The gun issue in America is not an AR15 problem. It is a gun problem.  I am an ardent 2nd Amendment supporter, but it does not mean I have the right to assemble an arsenal whenever and wherever I want. There should be universal background checks. There should be no gun show loophole.  There should be no high capacity magazines (>9), there should be a waiting period for every purchase. There should be fingerprints for every purchase. There should be no private sale without a dealer involved. There should be consequences for children/teens using mom or dads unsecured gun for committing a crime (i.e. mom or dad get charged also)

 

There also shouldn't be Grand Theft Auto, or Sniper Quest, or Operation Allied Assault, or CIA based wet work games, or Assassins Creed available to anyone under the age of 21.  But we as a society won't even accept talking about how our youth have been so desensitized to violence by loosening our moral codes.  Why should a 10 year old ever need to see a head explode from execution style killings? Its OK in video games and in movies. Grown ass men & women who go to war are desensitized to actual killing in less than a year in Iraq or Afghanistan.  With as realistic as games and movies are today, why would it shock anyone to think that kids are desensitized to actual killings by having seen thousands of them on their video games and movies (it's going to get worse with VR). 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Popeman38

[NoCalMike]

The "good guys with guns" tend to be the ones cowering in the most fear. (Not counting trained professionals, but I suppose when it comes to some police officers? Yeah, them too.)   They will post online about their Dirty Harry fantasies and how they will be the ones to save us all, but in real life their gun ownership is just an extension of their overall paranoia and delusions about people and the world at large.

[Renegade7]

21 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

Brother, you made my day with that one.   Keep up the good work.  Hail.

[The Evil Genius]

But why have different age limits and waiting times, Pope?

 

If 3 days and 21 is good for handguns, why isn't that ok also for AR-15 or other "long guns" (I hate that terminology)?

 

What's the need in Florida to ok them for 18yo's after a 15 minute background check?

Edited February 15, 2018 by The Evil Genius

[Popeman38]

1 minute ago, The Evil Genius said:

But why have different age limits and waiting times, Pope?

 

If 3 days and 21 is good for handguns, why isn't that ok also for AR-15 or other long guns? What's the need in Florida to ok them for 18yo's after a 15 minute background check?

Most likely because when the laws were enacted there weren't AR15s being used in mass shootings.  Look, I said in my post there should be waiting periods for every gun purchase.  I'm not here to quibble about inconvenience.  But this is an everyday problem, not just a 'day after a mass shooting' problem.

[Llevron]

When its your kid I wonder if you happily pay your price for freedom. 

[Bang]

Hey @LD0506...    maybe this is it?

 

~Bang

[Llevron]

Just now, Bang said:

Hey @LD0506...    maybe this is it?

 

~Bang

 

Might be but I doubt it. Not yet. 

[DC9]

I own a lot of guns.

 

I've also been turned down to buy a gun at a gun show because I didn't have my birth certificate and a semen sample handy.

 

I am not against gun control.

 

However, it's not as simple as you think.

 

What's weird here, again, is the consistency or lack thereof of some of the more prominent political posters on this board -

 

In one thread, you hate or don't trust the government.  In the next thread, you want everyone to hand their guns over to the government. 

 

I really haven't seen any reasonable suggestions.  I'm not against longer waiting periods depending on what they're looking for.  Most folks don't have the money to buy weapons off the bat anyway and I would say a reasonable person wouldn't have a problem planning out a few weeks in advance such a purchase. 

 

But when you start to change words like "right" to "privelegde" you're walking a dangerous path and you're giving the government the ability to pick and choose who gets a weapon - which essentially negates the constitution. 

[Popeman38]

7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

When its your kid I wonder if you happily pay your price for freedom. 

Is this directed at my response?