General Mass Shooting Thread (originally Las Vegas Strip)

[Bang]

2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

 

Bang go ask Criminals where they get them since you want to know.

 

good news! You can easily find out by checking with FOP organizations. The good ol' boys in blue. They know where a lot of their problem guns come from. They don't get much cooperation in stopping it though, It forces them to be reactive .. and you can't solve a problem like that. But that's the design.

Cause really, if you WANT to solve a problem, finding out the source of it sounds like a pretty good idea, no?

 

i am of the belief that there ARE unscrupulous dealers out here, and it doesn't take many. gangbanger in Chicago drives to a show in Ohio and pays cash for a bag of guns from a 'private seller'.
Make examples of them. HARD. Shut off the tap.

 

 

Quote

I don't care where they get them from they get them.

I see that. I think this is fundamentally wrong, and totally ignorant of how to even begin to solve any problems  at ALL, much less how to think about how to get guns out of the hands of criminals.  It sounds ignorant for the sake of stupid bravado.  

 

 

News Flash not all criminals commit crimes every single moment of every single day they live. Some criminals do criminal things sometimes and are law abiding citizens other times. 

 

Fact is that while your wrapped way too tightly around the idea of gun trees and other nonsense the fact of the matter is that criminals who plan to commit crimes almost always figure out the easiest targets before committing a crime. 

 

If the goal for a criminal is to steal money not all criminals go into a bank to steal money? Why? I don't know but common sense says that banks are more protected then a run of the mill 711. Which is probably why convenience stores get robbed so much more often then a bank does

 

And if a goal is to kill people why don't criminals go into sporting events and try and kill there? At your average baseball game there are 40k people in the stands. Seems like a good target to go kill people at until you realize that cops are everywhere at sporting events and they have to slip past metal detectors to get at them. Which is probably why you don't hear about too many baseball game massacres.

 

But we do hear about shoot ups in schools a lot.  Why? My guess is because they aren't known to be protected. They aren't known to have a bunch of guns in them. You don't hear about police and metal detectors at your typical schools. 

 

My point about all of this isn't to get verbally attacked because I don't think like you or that other guy do but to ask why not try the opposite of looking to the idiots in government to fix anything. Those clowns don't fix anything at all. To me no law is going to stop a bullet. Again no law is going to stop bullets which means they aren't the answer. 

 

I have five kids in schools. My opinion over the administrators at the schools is these are responsible people. These are good people. They can take gun safety seriously in times of a mass shooter at the school. Now if your opinion of school administrators is so low then maybe you disagree. Maybe you think the people running your schools are idiots and make the school at risk if a guns there. I don't think that. If you do sorry you must have some pretty awful schools your children go to. 

 

Doing the same thing, talking about gun round ups and tighter controls on guns don't mean or do anything. It's time that things were done that can have a good impact on this problem. Again your laws are going to fall on deaf ears of the criminals. And your laws aren't stopping bullets either. Time to try something that actually would work. You got to start thinking like a criminal and criminals respect guns

 

The rest of this is gibberish that has absolutely nothing at all to do with the very basic and simple fact that you have given up on even trying to find a way to keep criminals from having guns. That "they can just go get them any time they want" is a reality we can't control in the slightest. (These are criminals we're talking about. Not law abiding citizens. Felons. The majority of gun violence.)

It actually appears as if it has not even occured to you to wonder where felons and gangsters and junkies and armed robbers and home invaders keep getting nice new guns to commit their crimes.
Talk about nonsense.

 

Fact: the majority of gun crimes aren't mass shootings, although here again a guy who had all the signs and made them quite public got a gun legally. And while these are big scary events, the majority of gun crimes are committed by felons who can't buy guns legally, and yet, there they are, always armed.

And you never wonder WHERE they come from? It really is enough to say that whenever they want one they can just go get one, and stop thinking right there?

 

it's cold in my house, and the window is open. 
Oh well... guess i will buy another coat.

 

~Brrr

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by Bang

[Corcaigh]

9 minutes ago, Llevron said:

What are the stats on how often people harm themselves or their loved ones with guns more than they protect themselves? Like in home accidental shootings? 

 

Would something like that even be relevant in this discussion? 

 

It's a huge issue. For a majority, NOT having a gun is the safest scenario for you and your family, through accident, anger or depression.

 

10 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

At the end of the day this is till mainly about money,

 

In a relatively recent annual report, Smith & Wesson estimated that there was a $489 million domestic, non-military market for what are termed “modern sporting rifles,” i.e. AR-15 and similar.

[Bang]

there is no reason at all we can't look at the issue without believing that no matter what, the extreme opinions will hold sway. Confiscations or unfettered access... no in between at all.

By pretending that the extremes will get their way no matter which way we think,, guess what?

the extremes get their way.

 

Aren't we tired of that?

 

~Bang

[DC9]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

we cant show examples because these triumphant moments don't happen much outside of police officers. That is the point.

 

Oh, cause the way you were talking I thought you readily had an abundance of stories about "carried concealed holder hides in the back of a room during bank robbery, cost 100s of lives"

2 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Given there is nothing actually going to be done - what else is there for us to do?

 

Well, to the ones throwing out crap they could educate themselves on the full issues, not just throw pictures up from a magazine that may or may not answer 1/100th of the question and drop the mic.

 

That goes for both sides.  The "Right wing can't wait to give guns to everyone" and the "if only the Vietnam War vet janitor had a government issued pen," crowds are both exhausting.

 

Gosh, this is why I stay out of these.  I fall for it occasionally.

[DC9]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

Thank you for explaining what the pictures mean.  Everyone needed that.  

 

Okay so you've contributed nothing then.

 

 

[MartinC]

7 minutes ago, DC9 said:

Gosh, this is why I stay out of these.  I fall for it occasionally.

 

Given the extent of these threads over the years we should all be experts by now.

[LD0506]

Just now, MartinC said:

 

Given the extent of these threads over the years we should all be experts by now.

 

And yet, here we are......again

 

Go figure

[Renegade7]

2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

I wish it was funny

 

To be clear I did not find that funny at all.  It was so on point that I took a picture on my work computer with my phone and started sending it to people.

[Larry]

20 minutes ago, Bang said:

good news! You can easily ind out by checking with FOP organizations. The good ol' boys in blue. They know where a lot of their roblem guns come from. They don't get much cooperation in stopping it though, It forces them to be reactive .. and you can't solve a problem like that. But that's the design.

 

Just throwing this out there.  

 

There's a study that somebody ( @PeterMP ?) often throws out there, as an example that gun laws do make a difference. 

 

Midwestern state (Indiana?)  Used to be that, when the cops confiscated a gun, something like 80% of the guns confiscated were sold in the state next door (Illinois?)  

 

And then the state changed their gun laws, to become a "shall issue" state.  Meaning that if the cops couldn't find a reason to deny a sale, then they were required to allow the sale.  

 

Within a year or two, the statistic flipped.  When the cops confiscated a gun, the odds were overwhelming that the gun was purchased in state.  

 

[DC9]

20 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

 

And yet, here we are......again

 

Go figure

 

It's incredible... we all know right from wrong.

[AsburySkinsFan]

10 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Just throwing this out there.  

 

There's a study that somebody ( @PeterMP ?) often throws out there, as an example that gun laws do make a difference. 

 

Midwestern state (Indiana?)  Used to be that, when the cops confiscated a gun, something like 80% of the guns confiscated were sold in the state next door (Illinois?)  

 

And then the state changed their gun laws, to become a "shall issue" state.  Meaning that if the cops couldn't find a reason to deny a sale, then they were required to allow the sale.  

 

Within a year or two, the statistic flipped.  When the cops confiscated a gun, the odds were overwhelming that the gun was purchased in state.  

 

“Indiana GOP making Hoosier companies more profitable.”

[Dan T.]

2 hours ago, bobandweave said:

Criminals don't clear any hurdles or obey the laws when they want guns. They just go get them.

 

Who follows the rules and jumps over the hurdles with obtaining guns? The law abiding citizen.

 

Who commits these terrible mass shooting crimes?

 

Criminals.

 

 

The 19 year old guy in Florida was a law abiding citizen right up until he opened fire on students at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School.

 

Edit: As others have pointed out...

Edited February 16, 2018 by Dan T.

[Renegade7]

Tell you what, ya'll better be this gd animated when election time comes around otherwise we have no one to blame but ourselves.

[AsburySkinsFan]

6 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Tell you what, ya'll better be this gd animated when election time comes around otherwise we have no one to blame but ourselves.

That wasn’t a problem with me, and won’t be again. While I hope to god Trump is gone by then I’ll do everything I can to flip the house and get rid of my useless Congressman. Then in the next Presidential it’ll be ousting President Pence. 

[Dan T.]

Ef the 2nd Amendment.  It's time to rethink it.  And I don't give a good goddam what the NRA says or what the "cold, dead hands" wannabe Rambos think either.  It has been an anachronism for a hundred years or more.  

Edited February 16, 2018 by Dan T.

[AsburySkinsFan]

4 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Ef the 2nd Amendment.  It's time to rethink it.  And I don't give a good goddam what the NRA says or what the "cold, dead hands" wannabe Rambos think either.  It has been an anachronism for a hundred years or more.  

Like I said earlier...time to switch from “right” to “privilege”. I am a gun owner, but we don’t have militias anymore and that was the entire reason for the 2nd Amendment. 

 

Now, if you want to disband the military and focus on citizen mitias then lets get well regulated boys and girls. Until then, get a damned license. 

[zCommander]

Guns will not go anywhere. Guns will still be bought by sane people before they come insane. There is no real human solution for this. The human mind is complex. One could be happy one day and have a total breakdown the next day. Having a gun next to them is always a dangerous out. Too bad these people just lash out on everyone else rather then just quietly going away without anyone noticing them. 

 

How much does social media and instant news play a role in these types of killings? Probably even motivates the already depressed mind who has already chosen a suicide for themselves. The fame factor has to be there. Don't think we had these types of killings 35 years ago. 

 

Regardless, it is still very sad. Valentines day for the families and friends of individuals that died yesterday will not be the same anymore for rest of their lives.

 

 

Edited February 16, 2018 by zskins

[tshile]

Just remember you guys feel that way when someone says they don't want to agree with increased gun control because it's just a play towards removing the 2nd amendment and taking all guns away.

 

 

[AsburySkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, zskins said:

Guns will not go anywhere. Guns will still be bought by sane people before then come insane. There is no real human solution for this. The human mind is complex. One could be happy one day and have a total breakdown the next day. Having a gun next to them is always a dangerous out. Too bad these people just lash out on everyone else rather then just quietly going away without anyone noticing them. 

 

How much does social media and instant news play a role in these types of killings? Probably even motivates the already depressed mind who has already chosen a suicide for themselves. The fame factor has to be there. Don't think we had these types of killings 35 years ago. 

 

Regardless, it is still very sad. Valentines day for the families and friends of kids that died yesterday will not be the same anymore for rest of their lives.

 

 

Sorry, but your post is crap.

Canada allows the same guns, is as close to American culture as you’ll find anywhere on the planet, and yet they do not have the same problem with gun violence that we have. All because they approach gun ownership as a privilege not a right.

I am more convinced than ever that this is the key difference, and our inevitable solition.

[Larry]

32 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

Ef the 2nd Amendment.  It's time to rethink it.  And I don't give a good goddam what the NRA says or what the "cold, dead hands" wannabe Rambos think either.  It has been an anachronism for a hundred years or more.  

 

Actually, I think it's Predicto who likes to point out that this whole notion that the 2nd Amendment gives private citizens an unrestricted right to own their own firearms was manufactured by the NRA, in a deliberate plan which took decades to institute.  

 

He points out that up until a few decades ago, any lawyer who tried to argue that the Constitution gave Joe Citizen the right to walk around armed, and laws couldn't legislate against it, would have been laughed out of court.  (For example, nobody would ever have tried to argue that the city of Tombstone couldn't prohibit firearms in town.)  

[Commander PK]

2 minutes ago, tshile said:

Just remember you guys feel that way when someone says they don't want to agree with increased gun control because it's just a play towards removing the 2nd amendment and taking all guns away.

 

 

 

Because if we are being intellectually honest that’s exactly what a foot in the door has always been for some of these people.

 

When emotions run high, that’s when the truth comes out.  

[AsburySkinsFan]

3 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

Because if we are being intellectually honest that’s exactly what a foot in the door has always been for some of these people.

You talk about being intellectual honesty and thrn in that SAME sentence you employ the slippery slope logical fallacy.

That’s truly hilarious.

I mean usually folks can wait for the next sentence before contradicting themselves.

[Llevron]

3 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You talk about being intellectual honesty and thrn in that SAME sentence you employ the slippery slope logical fallacy.

That’s truly hilarious.

I mean usually folks can wait for the next sentence before contradicting themselves.

 

Thank you. **** burns me up. And if I do it I hope you call me out too. 

[Commander PK]

4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You talk about being intellectual honesty and thrn in that SAME sentence you employ the slippery slope logical fallacy.

That’s truly hilarious.

I mean usually folks can wait for the next sentence before contradicting themselves.

 

Slippery slope fallacy?  Did you and Dan T not just admit (to sum up) that you want to rethink and rewrite the 2nd amendment to be a privilege and not a right?  NRA and ‘Murica be damned?  

[Larry]

12 minutes ago, Painkiller said:

 

Because if we are being intellectually honest that’s exactly what a foot in the door has always been for some of these people.

 

When emotions run high, that’s when the truth comes out.  

 

5 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

You talk about being intellectual honesty and thrn in that SAME sentence you employ the slippery slope logical fallacy.

That’s truly hilarious.

I mean usually folks can wait for the next sentence before contradicting themselves.

 

Now, now.  

 

He just knows that, if he and the NRA allow Congress to pass a law (closing the "gun show loophole") that is supported by 80% of NRA members, then "these people" (who can't even manage to get a vote on a bump stock ban, after somebody uses one to kill 60 people) will be sending the confiscation troops after his cold, dead, hands, next.  

 

1 minute ago, Painkiller said:

 

Slippery slope fallacy?  Did you and Dan T not just admit (to sum up) that you want to rethink and rewrite the 2nd amendment to be a privilege and not a right?  NRA and ‘Murica be damned?  

 

They're being conservative.  Taking the constitution back to what it meant, for it's first 200 years.