MartinC Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Koala said: This is just the price we have to pay for our freedom. I'm not sure if you are being serious here - sometimes sarcasm does not transmit well in words. But I really think there is a section of the population who believe that kids being shot at school is a price worth paying so they can have 'freedom'. It baffles me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: Yes Make guns scarce and hard to get and they don’t shoot up schools. We have 300 million already. How do you make them scarce? We can’t stop illegals and heroin from entering the country, how do we stop them from bringing guns with them as well? Honest questions 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Painkiller said: We have to work on changing who who we are and what we value. I tell ya what, you work on changing society and human nature...call us when you fix it, we’ll work on restricting the means by which gun violence takes place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 12 minutes ago, Painkiller said: You really think kids shoot up their schools in this country because guns are widely available and easy to get? When my 3 year old sneaks into the cookie jar, I put the cookies somewhere that he can’t get to them. Works like a charm. Oh, but there are cookies randomly spread throughout the house? 300 million? I tell my 3 year old that if he helps me gather all the cookies then he will get a reward for his patriotic behavior. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 27 minutes ago, Painkiller said: Why does the best solutions to our mass shooting problem have to be the destruction or limitation of the gun lobby and manufacturers in a country that already has 300 million guns in private hands? Because it almost certainly is the best solution? (Or at least part of it). Now the best solution might not be acceptable because 'freedom' - but then that's a choice being made. Dead kids being a price worth being paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogofWar1 Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Painkiller said: We have 300 million already. How do you make them scarce? We can’t stop illegals and heroin from entering the country, how do we stop them from bringing guns with them as well? Honest questions The vast majority of guns used in mass shooting incidents are purchased near to the time of the offense. This means almost all those 300 mil firearms don't really factor into things EXCEPT insofar as their velocity of transferrence, that is, sales of existing firearms (or the small % of present owners who present a threat, which is a likely very small % given the nature of most mass shootings). Which naturally means the likely best chokepoint is the sale of a firearm. Edited February 15, 2018 by DogofWar1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Whatever. This is why im not having kids. I dont need the rage coursing through my veins that would come with one of my kids being shot and nothing changing because people want to keep their ****ing toys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, MartinC said: But I really think there is a section of the population who believe that kids being shot at school is a price worth paying so they can have 'freedom'. It baffles me. Maybe some, but not me. I’m all for addressing the specific problems we have in specific ways instead of labeling everyone as this or that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 At some point you just have ask yourself one simple question: Do I value the lives of 17 children over my personal right to own firearms? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Painkiller said: Maybe some, but not me. I’m all for addressing the specific problems we have in specific ways instead of labeling everyone as this or that. Right. Just as long as none of those solutions infringe on your 2nd amendment rights. So in reality - nothing changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 4 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said: I tell ya what, you work on changing society and human nature...call us when you fix it, we’ll work on restricting the means by which gun violence takes place. Call you when I fix it? Likewise. When you write an enforceable bill that will clearly reduce our mass shooting problem give me a buzz. I suspect I will be waiting just as long for your call as you will for mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bozo the kKklown Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 http://time.com/5160819/parkland-shooter-nikolas-cruz-was-a-member-of-white-supremacist-group/?utm_campaign=time&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&xid=time_socialflow_twitter Nikolas Cruz, confirmed part of a White Supremacist group. Meanwhile Sessions decides to targets gangs. The terrorists are within this country, not brown people an ocean away. He wanted to make America Great Again too. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, Llevron said: Whatever. This is why im not having kids. I dont need the rage coursing through my veins that would come with one of my kids being shot and nothing changing because people want to keep their ****ing toys. I’m ****ing livid bro. I’ve got two boys, 3 and 1 1/2. In about 2 years I’m going to have to sit down with him and have a frank discussion about safety in school. I’m going to have to fight back tears as I explain what to do in a situation that might be outside of my control. Then I’ll send him off to school and tell myself that mass murders are extremely rare and he has a nearly 0% chance of dying in a mass murder. Then I’ll have to do it again in another year with my youngest boy. People love to **** about today’s youth. Bunch of snowflakes, lazy, yadda yadda. The ****ing baby boomers and gen x didn’t go to school wondering if today was going to be the day they got shot up. They practiced atom bomb drills for **** that NEVER EVEN HAPPENED. Today, in school, they’re having active shooter drills because they HAPPEN ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME! 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Painkiller said: We have 300 million already. How do you make them scarce? We can’t stop illegals and heroin from entering the country, how do we stop them from bringing guns with them as well? Honest questions Those 300 million guns though aren't moving too much from one person to another. Unless you are really worried about everybody that owns a gun is going to become a mass shooter or is going to be willing to sell their gun illegally to a mass shooter, they aren't really much of a problem. Guns are much harder to transport than drugs, and they don't have the mark up value because they aren't addictive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 minute ago, MartinC said: Right. Just as long as none of those solutions infringe on your 2nd amendment rights. So in reality - nothing changes. I think when you look at this problem logically you must eventually come to the conclusion that we are largely past a legislative solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearrock Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 9 minutes ago, Painkiller said: We have 300 million already. How do you make them scarce? We can’t stop illegals and heroin from entering the country, how do we stop them from bringing guns with them as well? Honest questions Couldn't we restrict private sale and put restrictions on new purchases? That way the vast majority of guns will remain in the hands of responsible owners or be resold to licensed dealers (which is not a problem) and new gun purchases will go through rigorous background checks. Eventually existing guns will mostly be owned by responsible owners (as illegal transfers will get seized and irresponsible or criminal gun owners will lose their guns or be convicted). With respect to your earlier point about the NRA's proposed solution after Sandy Hook. I may get ostracized by liberal members of the forum, how about if we allow localities to implement this with very high vote approval threshold? I don't think more guns in school will solve the situation unless it is done in a very planned way with highly trained and screened professionals, but I am willing to be proven wrong on the cost and level of expertise involved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, Painkiller said: Call you when I fix it? Likewise. When you write an enforceable bill that will clearly reduce our mass shooting problem give me a buzz. I suspect I will be waiting just as long for your call as you will for mine. We could just dust off the bill drafted in Australia when they decided to address this very issue and change a few names and dates. But of course that would never get passed into law here. Lets not pretend solutions don't exist. It's just that we don't have the will to accept them. 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Springfield said: At some point you just have ask yourself one simple question: Do I value the lives of 17 children over my personal right to own firearms? So everyone who owns guns and advocates for the second amendment in the United States is now responsible for this killing? When the next person dies that’s my fault? What solution do you propose? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 1 hour ago, Painkiller said: Actually, the NRA came out after Sandy Hook and offered solutions to help fix this problem, but nobody was interested in what they had to say because it did not involve new legislation to what we already have. Yes, as I recall, they actually did. The repeated the magic slogan "enforce the existing laws". (And then went back to their decades-long campaign of preventing said laws from being enforced.) They announced that the real problem at Sandy Hook was that there weren't enough guns there. And proposed legislation to mandate that all schools be equipped with teams of armed guards (who will all be required to be trained and licensed by the NRA). They instructed their fully owned legislators to spend the next two years not actually doing anything, but loudly "investigating" video games. (Because, as we all know, the problem at Sandy Hook wasn't real guns, it was video game guns.) And they actually passed the only piece of gun legislation passed as a response to Sandy Hook. The state of Georgia passed a law allowing guns to be carried into schools, courthouses, government office buildings, churches, and bars. (Because, as we all know, nothing makes society safer like guns in bars.) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Painkiller said: I think when you look at this problem logically you must eventually come to the conclusion that we are largely past a legislative solution. We are past ANY solution. There is no effective political will to change anything. So people will continue to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AsburySkinsFan Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 10 minutes ago, Painkiller said: Call you when I fix it? Likewise. When you write an enforceable bill that will clearly reduce our mass shooting problem give me a buzz. I suspect I will be waiting just as long for your call as you will for mine. I suspect I’ll be waiting longer. I at least have several workable models to follow. You on the other hand are taking up the task that has been undertaken by every religion that is ever existed and that none of them have solved. Good luck with yours race you to the finishI’ll be waiting longer. I at least have several workable models to follow. You on the other hand are taking up the task that has been undertaken by every religion that is ever existed and that none of them have solved. Good luck with yours race you to the finish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koala Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 23 minutes ago, MartinC said: I'm not sure if you are being serious here - sometimes sarcasm does not transmit well in words. But I really think there is a section of the population who believe that kids being shot at school is a price worth paying so they can have 'freedom'. It baffles me. Definitely sarcastic. Anybody who uses that argument seriously would probably not be able to honestly answer the question, "do you love your kids or your guns more." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 3 minutes ago, bearrock said: Couldn't we restrict private sale and put restrictions on new purchases? That way the vast majority of guns will remain in the hands of responsible owners or be resold to licensed dealers. Specifically to this point I will use myself as an example. If I sold one of my guns to somebody right now, unless the gun is eventually used in a crime you would never know the sale existed. If it is used in a mass killing and the gun eventually traced back to me, that still didn’t stop the killing. Just makes me partly responsible. Again, our goal is to STOP the killings. We we can pass whatever we want. Enforcing it is something else entirely. If your goal is to make a real impact on these shootings you need enforceable solutions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 7 minutes ago, Painkiller said: So everyone who owns guns and advocates for the second amendment in the United States is now responsible for this killing? Hyperbole much? 8 minutes ago, Painkiller said: When the next person dies that’s my fault? Having read several of your contributions to this thread, lately? Yep. It is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Excuses Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) So this ****head trained with white power militias. Young, white males are increasingly becoming radicalized in this country. When will we take it seriously? Edited February 15, 2018 by No Excuses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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