Skinsinparadise Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 The thing about the obsession with some about the slow start. Newsflash: they actually won last week. Kirk ran a game winning drive. Yeah he wasn't great but they won. If losses apparently are 100% Kirk's fault to some. It's all on Kirk. Then doesn't he get 100% credit -- its all him for the wins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: The thing about the obsession with some about the slow start. Newsflash: they actually won last week. Kirk ran a game winning drive. Yeah he wasn't great but they won. If losses apparently are 100% Kirk's fault to some. It's all on Kirk. Then doesn't he get 100% credit -- its all him for the wins? Using a team stat like W's or L's to judge a player's performance is foolish. Kirk was garbage week 1 and didn't do much beyond hand the ball off week 2. Yes the game-winning drive was a positive, but one TD pass is not going to nullify the 2017 body of work. A $26M QB should not be sailing balls off his back-foot during pre-season let alone week 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ncr2h Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 10 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: Using a team stat like W's or L's to judge a player's performance is foolish. Kirk was garbage week 1 and didn't do much beyond hand the ball off week 2. Yes the game-winning drive was a positive, but one TD pass is not going to nullify the 2017 body of work. A $26M QB should not be sailing balls off his back-foot during pre-season let alone week 1. I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's funny to watch the same people saying, "Stats don't matter, he can't win big games" after he put up 5000 yards last season, are now saying, "He played like garbage, I don't care that he won" against a team that is now 2-1 and who shut down our run game in the second half (12 yards on 9 second half carries until the final drive of the game). Before, when Kirk was flying high, his detractors were saying they'd rather see him win ugly. Now that he won ugly, it's all about how he's not flying high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 8 minutes ago, CapsSkins said: Using a team stat like W's or L's to judge a player's performance is foolish. Kirk was garbage week 1 and didn't do much beyond hand the ball off week 2. Yes the game-winning drive was a positive, but one TD pass is not going to nullify the 2017 body of work. A $26M QB should not be sailing balls off his back-foot during pre-season let alone week 1. The post you responded to was about me having fun with some people that tend to hang losses ALL on Kirk. Yeah you are right high paid players don't have bad games not even in the preseason. It's totally unacceptable. To each their own, but I like to enjoy wins versus wallow in what bothers me about a player performance in the win let alone the player who led the game winning drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 13 minutes ago, ncr2h said: I'm not disagreeing with you, but it's funny to watch the same people saying, "Stats don't matter, he can't win big games" after he put up 5000 yards last season, are now saying, "He played like garbage, I don't care that he won" against a team that is now 2-1 and who shut down our run game in the second half (12 yards on 9 second half carries until the final drive of the game). Before, when Kirk was flying high, his detractors were saying they'd rather see him win ugly. Now that he won ugly, it's all about how he's not flying high. I've read months worth of negative posts about Kirk. There are differing angles as to the hits. But if I had to pick the most common one its: A. We don't care about big numbers. We want to see wins and we want to see him do it when it counts and the game is on the line. So we got a game that is almost the perfect package for these naysayers. But its still unacceptable. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/final-test-for-kirk-cousins-can-he-win-when-the-going-gets-tough/2017/09/22/0bc10364-9fa7-11e7-9c8d-cf053ff30921_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.687b8cf33ee3 The finest signal-caller connoisseurs will tell you that they prefer to judge a quarterback by his ability to play through struggles, accept imperfection, manage chaos and still win in the end. There’s a belief that, no matter how bad the situation, a good quarterback can make it right. It’s assumed that franchise quarterbacks will put up ridiculous stats most of the time, and Cousins has done that for the better part of two seasons. But what happens when they don’t? Can they stand out in the mud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Any coaches out there know how a QB at a high level reads the field? Meaning, can the greats give the shot down the field a chance to develop, knowing a shorter pass will be open? I know one of the more discussed areas of weakness for Kirk is him locking in on his pre determined first read. Is this west coast football or can he progress in that area? To my untrained eye, it seems he reads low and rarely go high (or short/deep). Not interested in bashing (that's for the off season, IMO), just want to learn where his heads at, if possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 12 minutes ago, wit33 said: Any coaches out there know how a QB at a high level reads the field? Meaning, can the greats give the shot down the field a chance to develop, knowing a shorter pass will be open? I know one of the more discussed areas of weakness for Kirk is him locking in on his pre determined first read. Is this west coast football or can he progress in that area? To my untrained eye, it seems he reads low and rarely go high (or short/deep). Not interested in bashing (that's for the off season, IMO), just want to learn where his heads at, if possible. That's just how the WCO works. I bet if you watch film and analyze every QB, they all miss wide open guys because they went with their first read which was short and also open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 minutes ago, wit33 said: Any coaches out there know how a QB at a high level reads the field? Meaning, can the greats give the shot down the field a chance to develop, knowing a shorter pass will be open? I know one of the more discussed areas of weakness for Kirk is him locking in on his pre determined first read. Is this west coast football or can he progress in that area? To my untrained eye, it seems he reads low and rarely go high (or short/deep). Not interested in bashing (that's for the off season, IMO), just want to learn where his heads at, if possible. Fair question. What I believe is happening right now are a combination of a few things - many times the first read is open. There is a reason it's the first read. You want that play and you like the match-up. Second, the line has not held as good a protection as they have the last two years so he often does not have time to wait for a play to develop. But he has also been less accurate this year - cue the It's because the team let garcon and Jackson go crowd. Well, that may be a little bit of it. But he is missing guys by big margins, not a foot here and there. Neither Garcon or Jackson (who never played a full 16 gms) have 8 ft arms. And Reed has been here the whole time and he is missing Reed. I think this will get better and soon. He has the ability. We have seen it. But he really struggles with good Dlines. I said this last year and I will repeat it. the teams he has his worst games against are teams with very good Dlines. I mean most QBs are going to struggle. But he seems especially bothered. What I rarely see him do is work outside the pocket very well. I liked seeing him run a few more times last week. But he rarely seems to be to establish himself in another area of the field making the pass rushers work harder and buying his WRs time to get open and then delivering a good pass. If we are being honest, that's something Wentz did a much better job of when we played them. Kirk seems to get panicky once he gets outside the pocket. I think this week will be a good test to see if it's more the dlines or Kirk is just not playing very well. He should have a little more time against Oakland. They have a decent dline but they are not in the same category as the Eagles and Rams. What they do have is a much better offense than either of those two teams. This will be a big test for our so far much better Defense under Manusky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: The post you responded to was about me having fun with some people that tend to hang losses ALL on Kirk. Yeah you are right high paid players don't have bad games not even in the preseason. It's totally unacceptable. To each their own, but I like to enjoy wins versus wallow in what bothers me about a player performance in the win let alone the player who led the game winning drive. I can (and do!) thoroughly enjoy wins without thinking all that much of Mr. Cousins. I stand by my prediction that this will be his last year as a Redskin, that another team will pay him a lot of money on the open market, and he won't exactly set the world on fire wherever he goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbit Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 kirks going to have this baby and go bad ass on everybody. Cause it was profosized Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 @goskins10The funny thing is that Gruden and Reed both talked about how he (Reed) needs to slow it down a little bit - was coming out of his breaks too early. It's hard for me to remember all of his missed throws obviously, but all of the ones that immediately come to mind are either legitimate drops (mostly by Pryor, and the one to Thompson over the middle), or have been off Crowder's finger tips. The one egregious miss I can come up with is the easy lollipop lob to Thompson. I missed seeing the back-to-back fades (stream froze), but I'm sure I wasn't the only one unsurprised he missed those. I'm not arguing that he's been accurate (far from it), but I think there's a reason Gruden thinks the passing game is close to taking off. Agree that he struggles vs good dlines and that there's a lot of room for improvement when he is forced from the pocket (though I think he looks a bit better at it). Scary seeing what Wentz did to us and knowing we have to face him for the next however many years. Back to the dlines though, Carolina and the Giants both gave him fits last year and he really struggled vs the Eagles (as you mentioned). The only reason he looked ok vs the Rams probably stems from the ground attack. Which brings me to coaching. All three of those poor matchups, I feel like we gave up on the ground game. Not that it was producing, but sometimes you have to force the issue. I give Gruden a lot of credit for the Rams game, but I think he missed the opportunity to take some shots on first down (quick hitter PA passes especially). I'm actually a bit worried by the Raiders front. They have the size to limit our ground game, and Mack (and Irvin) is gonna be a handful. I'm also thinking Kirk might feel the need to press if the D struggles to contain their O. We'll see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said: To each their own, but I like to enjoy wins versus wallow in what bothers me about a player performance in the win. There is no need for that kind of talk around here. Being able to wallow in such circumstances is a prerequisite quality for any ES member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 5 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: There is no need for that kind of talk around here. Being able to wallow in such circumstances is a prerequisite quality for any ES member. True. If though I thought so little of Kirk as some do here, I'd at least enjoy a win as a rare reprieve from the pain versus dwell in it because if he stinks as much as some claim, this is likely going to be a 3-13 season so I'd enjoy each win as precious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 Yep we've reached RG3 thread level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Sinister Posted September 23, 2017 Share Posted September 23, 2017 4 hours ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: Yep we've reached RG3 thread level. Beck/Grossman, Campbell, Collins, Brunell, Ramsey. The names have changed, but the game has stayed the same Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 On 9/22/2017 at 2:39 PM, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said: He's in his 3rd year as a starter. 7th as a pro overall. He's above the "give him time" stuff. I'm sure he'll get better but I'm not ok with investing in a guy that is gonna suck for the first 4 games of each season I'd say we should give him more time, hell you gave him an entire extra year already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 11 hours ago, SkinsFTW said: I'd say we should give him more time, hell you gave him an entire extra year already. I've seen posts here that say Kirk is 30, elevate his salary to 26 million, make up things about his stats, comparisons made to Beck, the RG3 saga as apples to apples -- all I presume in the cause to bring context to their arguments designed to make Kirk look bad. And at the same time some of the critics are lecturing that they are the ones making the reasonable arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCoach22 Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I've seen posts here that say Kirk is 30, elevate his salary to 26 million, make up things about his stats, comparisons made to Beck, the RG3 saga as apples to apples -- all I presume in the cause to bring context to their arguments designed to make Kirk look bad. And at the same time some of the critics are lecturing that they are the ones making the reasonable arguments. Yes, you're right... he's been fine... oh, wait. The fact that there are these realities to distort shows there is a problem. He has to play better. Can he? Sure. But, every game he struggles should plant some seeds of doubts in the minds of anyone considering paying him 25 million on up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 3 hours ago, TheCoach22 said: Yes, you're right... he's been fine... oh, wait. The fact that there are these realities to distort shows there is a problem. He has to play better. Can he? Sure. But, every game he struggles should plant some seeds of doubts in the minds of anyone considering paying him 25 million on up. Your response had zero to do with my post. So if anything it helped make my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE HAMMER'IN HOG Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 On 9/12/2017 at 12:15 AM, RedskinsSerbia said: Sad news for you buddy... Sudfeld is a Philadelphia Eagle for a week already. Also, Rams don't need a QB since their guy looked like Payton Manning in Week one. Yeah, always best to wait a month to see... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Kirk is MONEY today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 I'm actually expecting some level of ridicule that it wasn't fancy enough, just dinking and dunking. Probably starting with "I'm glad we got the win but...". *No jinx. This is barring we don't fumble ourselves into losing a game where we have over 4x yardage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 Showing why he thinks he deserves the money. More games like this and I will agree with him too. If he and the defense can play like this I'm all in. And I don't believe in jinxes I totally think they have the capability! No luck needed. And if on queue defense makes a play Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 14 hours ago, TheCoach22 said: Yes, you're right... he's been fine... oh, wait. The fact that there are these realities to distort shows there is a problem. He has to play better. Can he? Sure. But, every game he struggles should plant some seeds of doubts in the minds of anyone considering paying him 25 million on up. Can we get an update please. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOF44 Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 All you KC naysayers come out to playaaaa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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