Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[HOF44]

36 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Let's be serious though, if this were 3-4 years ago and #10 behind center, we would be killing him for being stupid, scared in the pocket and not able to read a defense. 

 

Kirk has to see that and make those throws. he did this a ton last season too. 

If #10 was coming off 2 consecutive 4000+ yard seasons he would have gotten a little more rope too.  If Cousins is as inefficient as many people claim he would be having 5500'yard seasons if he hits  everything they think he should.  

[SkinsFTW]

19 minutes ago, HOF44 said:

If #10 was coming off 2 consecutive 4000+ yard seasons he would have gotten a little more rope too.  If Cousins is as inefficient as many people claim he would be having 5500'yard seasons if he hits  everything they think he should.  

 

Imagine if they had ES back in the Sonny/Billy days, lol.

[Riggo'sRangers]

2 hours ago, HOF44 said:

Just watching that video I think one of the two deep receivers ran the wrong route.  The spacing looks wrong.  To close together on the break.  Also no route to the right at all.  It's hard to say for sure without assignments we just don't know. 

Flood route concept.  Run 2 receivers to the same side to open up (move) the safety.  Only catch is they didn't really cover either.  We were locked in the play call. 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2024638-nfl-101-introducing-the-basic-route-combinations

[skins island connection]

KC has played long enough to not come out rusty for the first month. Some of it also has to do with the plays being called, whats working and what isn't. I don't expect him to come out Brady-esque but at least give a solid, know-what-he's-doing type performance. If he makes some bad throws, I can live with it [ except those damned fades ] as long as he doesn't revert back to pick-6 duds.

 

Now Doctson is a horse of a different color. He has to WANT to be out there, he has to WANT the ball, he has to WANT to make an impact. He was supposed to be our big WR, but its just not working out that way. If he can mentally demand better performances out of himself, he can get there, but he's gotta want it, and I just can't say that's the case right now. But it is early in the season.

[HOF44]

19 minutes ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

Flood route concept.  Run 2 receivers to the same side to open up (move) the safety.  Only catch is they didn't really cover either.  We were locked in the play call. 

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2024638-nfl-101-introducing-the-basic-route-combinations

That may have been what it was supposed to be, they just look to close and ran similar angles off the break. Or he may have done as you said and missed it.  We will never know the real deal. He has hit enough the last couple years to do pretty damn good though.  

[Riggo'sRangers]

1 hour ago, skins island connection said:

KC has played long enough to not come out rusty for the first month. Some of it also has to do with the plays being called, whats working and what isn't. I don't expect him to come out Brady-esque but at least give a solid, know-what-he's-doing type performance. If he makes some bad throws, I can live with it [ except those damned fades ] as long as he doesn't revert back to pick-6 duds.

 

Now Doctson is a horse of a different color. He has to WANT to be out there, he has to WANT the ball, he has to WANT to make an impact. He was supposed to be our big WR, but its just not working out that way. If he can mentally demand better performances out of himself, he can get there, but he's gotta want it, and I just can't say that's the case right now. But it is early in the season.

Just throw him the damn ball on occasion.  He has been out there, in both games, and wide open as well, on occasion.  Someone; Kirk, Gruden, whomever has to be "comfortable" with you and then you become a possible target.  We seem to have a rigid route/target tree, especially on offense.  It seems based on practice repetitions. While I get that, eventually you have to take the training wheels off.  Even more interesting is Montae Nicholson.  He missed almost all of preseason and training camp.  He was immediately put into the starting defense as soon as healthy.  Of course, he plays defense. He needs to do the same with  Doctson if healthy.  Also, target him at some point.  It seems on film that Dostson has the want, for all of the reasons mentioned; what is missing is opportunity.  Feel free to question as to why. Kirk is a rigid system QB and has to be comfortable with your routes, or it is Gruden's calls.  I don't know.  I do know the song will remain the same if something does not give, somewhere.  It's like watching my grandparents interpretation of football;"Just do what you know and it will be great....no need to push the envelope.,,,let it be son."  I am not "that guy".  I want more.  Hail 

[HOF44]

My guess is Cousins doesn't trust him to be where he is supposed to be.  In this offense most times the balls out before the receiver breaks. So if a route is run incorrectly at best it's looks widely inaccurate and at worst is intercepted. Only the people in the organization know on every play who was at fault. 

[SkinsFTW]

9 minutes ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

 Feel free to question as to why. Kirk is a rigid system QB and has to be comfortable with your routes, or it is Gruden's calls.  I don't know.

 

Gruden might be keeping KC from chucking it because he knows if he throws a few too many picks Allen and Snyder will want to start looking at 1st round QB's and he probably wants to keep KC around. Also the fan base is the same way. Remember a couple years ago, Cousins didn't even care that he threw an INT, he was like "well Ints happen sometimes when you're slinging the ball around" or something like that but that was one of his first starts, maybe after that Philly game he should have won after RG3 got jacked up.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

7 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

Gruden might be keeping KC from chucking it because he knows if he throws a few too many picks Allen and Snyder will want to start looking at 1st round QB's and he probably wants to keep KC around

 

If Gruden is actually coaching and calling plays like that then he needs to be fired immediately. 

[SkinsFTW]

11 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

If Gruden is actually coaching and calling plays like that then he needs to be fired immediately. 

 

Hmm, I was thinking it meant that we needed a better FO, my bad.

[Wyvern]

I think that even Gruden can see these Skins receivers-in-training aren't at the stage where Cousins knows they'll be at the designated spot with a little bit of separation from their defenders.  Out of the lot, only Crowder and Reed can do that, with some degree of reliability.  

 

Considering how the Skins fan base considers each Cousins INT as the end of the world -- maybe Gruden has decided to be more conservative in what Cousins attempts passing-wise.  But, if you look at Gruden's passing plays -- they involve a lot of timing and momentary separation types of plays where passes are made over the middle or into other "dangerous" high-risk/high reward defensive coverages.

 

So maybe some care needs to exercised in how much you rely on the less-than-stellar receiving corps of the 2017 Skins.

[TheShredder]

4 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

That's not really acceptable. They both need to be put on notice if they are here next offseason to get their asses in gear and avoid this slow start. Have him play the entire preseason, I don't care. Get him ready. 

 

Colt McCoy is not an option at QB. He has never been nor should he ever be. If McCoy is playing QB the season is basically sunk and we are rebuilding and hoping for a high draft pick by playing him

Not really the case.  Cousins has played terrible and McCoy could have easily out played him in the first two games. That was the point.

[SkinsFTW]

6 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

Not really the case.  Cousins has played terrible and McCoy could have easily out played him in the first two games. That was the point.

 

 

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

More likely Colt would've been Colt, particularly against the pass rush the Eagles had going.  If you thought Kirk held the ball too long in that game, I promise you Colt would've held it longer, and the results not good.

[TheShredder]

5 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

More likely Colt would've been Colt, particularly against the pass rush the Eagles had going.  If you thought Kirk held the ball too long in that game, I promise you Colt would've held it longer, and the results not good.

I'm not a Colt fan or anti Cousins. However Colt is credited with getting the ball out fast, not slow. Maybe you're talking about a different Colt. I don't think there was anything anyone could have done with the Eagles being allowed to bull-rush in week 1.  OL played terrible. But so did Cousins who was gun shy and inaccurate.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

9 minutes ago, TheShredder said:

I'm not a Colt fan or anti Cousins. However Colt is credited with getting the ball out fast, not slow. Maybe you're talking about a different Colt. 

Colt takes sacks at a great clip.  Far greater than Cousins has ever. That's a fact I don't even need to look up.

[illone]

Nice drive by Cousins to close out the Lambs game.  I do give him credit for playing well on that drive.  Proof that the run game helps things, not that I expect to see them run like that on a consistent basis... It sure would be nice, but very doubtful that will continue depending on who the opponent is.

 

Skins should find running lanes vs the Raiders, but 27 points will not be enough.  The Raiders themselves are a pretty balanced offense and could easily tag the scoreboard for 35+ so Kirk is going to need to act like he has been there before.  No hugging on the sidelines with the coach just because you had one good drive to close out a game.

[zCommander]

4 hours ago, TheShredder said:

I'm not a Colt fan or anti Cousins. However Colt is credited with getting the ball out fast, not slow. Maybe you're talking about a different Colt. I don't think there was anything anyone could have done with the Eagles being allowed to bull-rush in week 1.  OL played terrible. But so did Cousins who was gun shy and inaccurate.

 

The balls that were dropped in the 1st game is that also due to Kirk being inaccurate?

[markmills67]

5 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

Just throw him the damn ball on occasion.  He has been out there, in both games, and wide open as well, on occasion.  Someone; Kirk, Gruden, whomever has to be "comfortable" with you and then you become a possible target.  We seem to have a rigid route/target tree, especially on offense.  It seems based on practice repetitions. While I get that, eventually you have to take the training wheels off.  Even more interesting is Montae Nicholson.  He missed almost all of preseason and training camp.  He was immediately put into the starting defense as soon as healthy.  Of course, he plays defense. He needs to do the same with  Doctson if healthy.  Also, target him at some point.  It seems on film that Dostson has the want, for all of the reasons mentioned; what is missing is opportunity.  Feel free to question as to why. Kirk is a rigid system QB and has to be comfortable with your routes, or it is Gruden's calls.  I don't know.  I do know the song will remain the same if something does not give, somewhere.  It's like watching my grandparents interpretation of football;"Just do what you know and it will be great....no need to push the envelope.,,,let it be son."  I am not "that guy".  I want more.  Hail 

Just a thought but if Doctson is not being targeted by Cousin's, is that not making it easier for the opposition to put more emphasis on our other wideouts?.

 

HTTR 

[Bang]

In watching specifically for it, it looked to me that on most passes Cousins head never turns towards Doctson's side of the field. i really wonder why..  the Fade was a lousy throw, but the playcall forces him to throw it to Doctson, and if it didn't, i don't think he would have.

Leads me to believe the players think Doctson dogs it, malingers, and probably hasn't made very many friends on the team. They don't trust him.

 

Cousins has shown that he can spread the ball around and make multiple reads. 

I know Kirk is not a guy who laser locks in on a single read.. you can watch him read all the time.. last weekend there was a particularly good example of in which Kirk threw a little dump off to the RB for about a 5 yard gain, but even as he got flushed out of the pocket, you could clearly see his eyes and head move to two different locations before seeing the guy in the flat, then looking one more time before throwing it to him. Not a spectaculr play, but the camera caught his eyes really well.

This week he didn't seem to throw off the back foot as much. Balls weren't sailing.

 

~Bang

[Riggo'sRangers]

2 hours ago, markmills67 said:

Just a thought but if Doctson is not being targeted by Cousin's, is that not making it easier for the opposition to put more emphasis on our other wideouts?.

 

HTTR 

I would think so.  Also Reeds health is severely limiting him, or so it seems.  His toe may well be a problem the entire year and that's just not good.  Wouldn't it be ironic if our offense became more ground oriented?  It will be interesting.   

[Bang]

he also didn't target Pryor much on Sunday to my eye. I haven't seen any stats for targets, but it looked to me that Crowder was about the only wideout he threw too, and even that was sparingly. Most passes to my recollect were to backs and TE.

 

~Bang

[William Barbour]

13 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

I hope Kirk can start seeing things like this. It happens to ALL QB's, not just Kirk, but if we read these routes right, easy pickings.  For ones wondering why Doctson not catching balls, well he's not GETTING any, even when open.  It's all good-they (he & Kirk) just have to become comfortable with one another I suppose.  Our passes seem so predetermined ragardless of the receiver.  The ball will be thrown where the play is designed.  It's a shame that we can't be more improvisational, but that may lead to errors. Anyway, a way to get better.  Hail

 

https://twitter.com/MarkBullockNFL/status/910250580207169537

 

Kirk won't come off JC though. He's the first read. 2 deep WR are designed to open up that part of the field. Unless Kirk has more then one set of eyes. He would  ever male that throw.

 

First read is open. Make the throw.

 

With that said. I dont think I've ever seen Kirk read the field low to high. Actually a lot of WCO are not built to scan the field low to high. 

[fordranger76]

Maybe Kirk and the receivers need to start doing trust falls in the huddle. If we have a Quarterback that wont throw the ball to receivers that are open because he doesn't trust them then we need a new Quarterback. Last year he got all of the credit when the receivers we running wide open and he was able to hit them. Never mind that they were making some pretty impressive catches and RAC yards. That is ignored. Lose our 1000 yard receivers and now he is missing them due to trust issues. The throws that are dropped seem to be focused on a ton. We make no mention of the 200 mph throws to receivers 5 feet infront of him that are usually high or inside to boot. He has zero touch at all. Evident on deep balls and fade routes. Desean hid the deep ball touch last year to a large degree and the fades speak for themselves. At what point can we simply say the guy is a system QB and is decent, not great, at running Gruden's system? 

 

I keep seeing how great he did that last drive. Well fantastic. We will just ignore the whole 7 quarters of football before that. Gets a pass on it because of the whole trust thing I guess I don't know. If he had played better those first 3 quarters against the Rams the game is not close. If he had played better against Philly we win. When do we start to give credit to Gruden in all of this? Maybe he deserves the 25 million Kirk wants eh? He is after all responsible for making a very mediocre QB look average. IMO Cousins has a lot more to do if he wants to be paid like a big boy. He has been in the league plenty long enough to not look like dog **** 2 weeks into the season. People need to quit blaming Gruden for Cousins not seeing the field. 

[OVCChairman]

24 minutes ago, William Barbour said:

Kirk won't come off JC though. He's the first read. 2 deep WR are designed to open up that part of the field. Unless Kirk has more then one set of eyes. He would  ever male that throw.

 

First read is open. Make the throw.

 

With that said. I dont think I've ever seen Kirk read the field low to high. Actually a lot of WCO are not built to scan the field low to high. 

I agree, Kirk is winding up before Crowder even gets out of his break... If I'm Cousins looking at film, I am circling this play as a possible read shift, and to make it even better, I'd carry Doctson across more to carry the safety down.  If I hit my drop and see the safeties flat footed like that...  The read can be almost as quick, and options are there if it's covered deep.  Everyone was open on that play except for Reed who the FS was locked in on.  I can't believe the defense was so out of position... There was no fear of us beating them deep... like they knew the underneath route was going to be where he went and they wanted to take the crossing pattern by Reed out of the picture... be damned anyone else on the field.   I really wonder if JC is read 1 and J.Reed is no. 2, and they know they have the D-line that wont let Kirk get to 3 or 4.