Common Kirk....I just don't know....

[SkinsFTW]

1 minute ago, Bonez3 said:

Curt is an average QB who played slightly below average Sunday. 

 

Again, to pay him 25 mil a year for 5 years would be absurd. 

 

And the fact that the expectation is that he's going to cost that much is entirely on the buffoons that run the team who could have had him for millions less if they were qualified for their current jobs.

[Darth Tater]

4 hours ago, Riggo'sRangers said:

I get this and understand.  I started this damn thread and I LIKE Kirk.  Ok, that said, let us leave Tom Brady out of the conversation.  It's not fair to Kirk. Redskins fans are the ONLY group that think Kirk can't be a top shelf starter?  I'm not so sure that is accurate. Not in any way form or fashion.  The slow starter thing, be it Gruden, Training Camp, Kirk, whatever, we need to solve that, yesterday.  What sucks is these unimportant games in the early part of the schedule (I am being facetious-NO such thing) is that it comes back to bite us in the ass ever year.  We cannot afford slow starts.  Every single game is monumental. This is not baseball or basketball with multitudes of games to "make it up".  It is paramount to win at every opportunity.  You know what though?  Kirk looks better earlier than I have seen him before.  It is usually game 3 or 4 before it kicks in.  I was/am really pleased with the win, and Kirk's performance in LA. We'll see, but I was happy with Kirk and the coaching. Please let the injury gods be kind to us.  Hail

I said we are the only ones with a large contingent that thinks Kirk Cousins CAN'T be a top shelf QB.  Not that we are the only ones who think that we are the only one's who think he is not.  Can't does not imply won't or isn't.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

25 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I@Spaceman Spiff

Last season he seemed to have a lot more vigor to him. Dude got amped up. Same as the season before. Yeah, we liked that, Kirk.

 

He's played like crap, ran for his life, been sacked a bunch, guys have dropped balls, etc.  

 

I will say that yesterday he looked very dead on the sideline.  Guys can say they don't read the papers, listen to the fans, etc all they want but they know.  He knows the pulse of the city changes with every pass he makes.  I'm sure it weighs heavy.

 

His celebration after the TD yesterday looked to be half fire/ half relief.  Hopefully that sparked his confidence.

[Bonez3]

2 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

And the fact that the expectation is that he's going to cost that much is entirely on the buffoons that run the team who could have had him for millions less if they were qualified for their current jobs.

I'm actually glad they didn't. Would you be happy to have him for 20-22 mil a year for the next 3 years. No thanks. It's great we have an average QB, we've been s deprived for so long many have burgundy colored glasses on when they watch him. 

[SkinsFTW]

1 minute ago, Bonez3 said:

I'm actually glad they didn't. Would you be happy to have him for 20-22 mil a year for the next 3 years. No thanks. It's great we have an average QB, we've been s deprived for so long many have burgundy colored glasses on when they watch him. 

You mean 15-16 but then they waited months and Osweiler got paid for doing much less.

[skinny21]

15 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I'm actually glad they didn't. Would you be happy to have him for 20-22 mil a year for the next 3 years. No thanks. It's great we have an average QB, we've been s deprived for so long many have burgundy colored glasses on when they watch him. 

It's interesting that you put it this way.  Pretty much everyone I've seen supporting Kirk (in this thread at least) has recognized his flaws and made rational arguments for him.  

 

Actually, after thinking about it some more, I suppose this type of post is a decent foil for the "they hate Kirk because RGIII" posts.  

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, SkinsFTW said:

Did anybody else see that GB Packer JAG throw the dumbest INT of the year and then later have his fumble returned for a TD?

 

I wonder who they're going to be drafting as his replacement.

The day you can say Kirk has thrown for 30 TDs in a season let alone 6 you can make the dumb comparison. The year Cousins wins a super bowl of even wins a game you can make that dumb comparison. The day Cousins is an MVP you can make that dumb comparison.

 

This tired "oh well Aaron Rodgers threw an INT so they should draft someone else" joke that really wasn't funny the first 100 times really negates any credible post on the subject you may have made because it looks like you're just rehashing whatever anyone else had previously posted.

15 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

30 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

 

It's interesting that you put it this way.  Pretty much everyone I've seen supporting Kirk (in this thread at least) has recognized his flaws and made rational arguments for him.  

I've seen a lot of excuses exhonerating Kirk from the run game to his receivers not being trustworthy to him purposely being hijacked by the FO. It always seems to be someone else's fault.

15 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

30 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

 

It's interesting that you put it this way.  Pretty much everyone I've seen supporting Kirk (in this thread at least) has recognized his flaws and made rational arguments for him.  

I've seen a lot of excuses exhonerating Kirk from the run game to his receivers not being trustworthy to him purposely being hijacked by the FO. It always seems to be someone else's fault.

[Bonez3]

1 hour ago, skinny21 said:

It's interesting that you put it this way.  Pretty much everyone I've seen supporting Kirk (in this thread at least) has recognized his flaws and made rational arguments for him.  

 

Actually, after thinking about it some more, I suppose this type of post is a decent foil for the "they hate Kirk because RGIII" posts.  

I have no idea wha you're alluding to with RG3... I could care less about his role in this franchises history. Honestly, I like Curt a lot. I think he is an average QB and has had more success than most QBs in the past 25 years here. 

 

But, it's business. I don't need 'rational arguments', I've watched him play for the past 2.5 years. Longest audition ever, maybe. The answer is painfully obvious to me, he's an average QB. If I'm the GM, I'm marking that money to other positions as the build continues without Curt

[joeken24]

Quick question...

Is Kirk better than Trevor Siemian? 

 

If you have to think about it, does it mean Kirk is at his ceiling? Or does it mean Trevor is a natural. 

I'm asking because I see some innate things from some of the rookies (like Trevor) that Kirk is just beginning

to develop.....like extending plays.

 

 

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, joeken24 said:

Quick question...

Is Kirk better than Trevor Siemian? 

 

If you have to think about it, does it mean Kirk is at his ceiling? Or does it mean Trevor is a natural. 

I'm asking because I see some innate things from some of the rookies (like Trevor) that Kirk is just beginning

to develop.....like extending plays.

 

 

 

Quick answer...

How good are his WR's? Does he have a former QB converted to WR? How good is he TE? Is he hurt and playing on one foot? How good is there OL? 

How good was Dak last year? How good was Wilson his first year? Was Kirk ever a rookie starter his 1st year? So really trying to compare apples to oranges imho. 

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

 

I've seen a lot of excuses exhonerating Kirk from the run game to his receivers not being trustworthy to him purposely being hijacked by the FO. It always seems to be someone else's fault.

I've seen a lot of excuses exhonerating Kirk from the run game to his receivers not being trustworthy to him purposely being hijacked by the FO. It always seems to be someone else's fault.

Have you seen anyone supporting Kirk say anything other than he played poorly week 1?  Have you seen games from Kirk when his receivers let him down in a big way?  Have you seen games when he was pressured and hit numerous times?  Have you seen games in which the run game did virtually nothing?  What's your take on the defense since Kirk's been the starter?  

 

My point is, I'm not sure it's fair to say those are just excuses, just as it's not fair say supporters paint the picture as nothing but rosy.  

 

 

15 minutes ago, Bonez3 said:

I have no idea wha you're alluding to with RG3... I could care less about his role in this franchises history. Honestly, I like Curt a lot. I think he is an average QB and has had more success than most QBs in the past 25 years here. 

 

But, it's business. I don't need 'rational arguments', I've watched him play for the past 2.5 years. Longest audition ever, maybe. The answer is painfully obvious to me, he's an average QB. If I'm the GM, I'm marking that money to other positions as the build continues without Curt

Oh, that's fine... you've made up your mind so I know no stats, metrics, opinions of NFL pros, etc. will change it.  I totally get it.  I remember having similar convos defending Niles Paul, Trent Murphy and others (some others I probably had no business defending, lol). 

 

The RGIII mention was just regarding  some Kirk supporters claiming that people only hate/dislike/minimize Kirk because they were Griffin fanboys.  Your post essentially read the same way, just the opposite - he's an average qb and y'all just have blinders on. 

 

 

 

[PartyPosse]

11 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

Have you seen anyone supporting Kirk say anything other than he played poorly week 1?

Yes. I've seen his receivers dropped everything, the run game couldn't get going and the offensive line basically forced Kirk to have to hurry up. I've seen people complain that because we abandoned the run early in the 4th that philly knew that Kirk was gonna throw so they kept being aggressive. I've seen people say that the fumble cost Kirk because they just knew he was gonna lead the team down for the Go ahead score.

[NoCalMike]

So I am actually going to defend Kirk a bit for this game.  I said earlier in this thread, one thing I want to see out of Kirk is him finding ways to win games when he isn't overall having that great of games.  In the past it would seem the opposite where he might end up with a nice stat line, but didn't get it done in the end.

That final drive Kirk was calm, cool, & collected.  The pass to Ryan Grant for the TD, the O-line does get a lot of credit, but so does Kirk.  If he throws that ball too soon, it is either knocked away or it is an INT.  He had to wait for Grant to get open and stay composed as he shifted out of the pocket.

That kind of throw was definitely a step in the right direction.

[Warhead36]

The Lions just won a game where Stafford only threw for ~120 yards.

 

A good QB doesn't always put up monster statistical games. Sometimes all you have to do is manage the game, be efficient, and make plays when you need to to win. Like Stafford tonight, that's what Cousins did.

[Veryoldschool]

The Redskin FO is really going rock the football world with the 3rd round pick they will get when Cousins moves on in 2018.  Skins fan have that to look forward to in 14 more games. 

[petey hodge]

I dont know. When I watch Kirk play, I get an uneasy feeling.  It's like he only throws a dart as if he's programmed to throw it to a certain place x number of seconds after the snap.  He doesn't improvise or keep the play alive for very long like Russell "Busted Play" Wilson or even Cartsen Wentz.

Since he's in a hurry to pass, it feels like interceptions happen more often as receivers are not where he expects them to be.

 

Think the Pro Bowl.  I had that feeling again.  He was driving up the field with darts.  Then he throws the Pick-nearly-six at the end.  Classic Kirk.  Am I missing something here?  A QB like that is not top shelf and has hit his ceiling.

[SkinsFTW]

In his entire almost 20 year career Peyton Manning won 2 SBs (he had nothing to do with the 2nd Colt McCoy would've won that one ).

 

Meanwhile during this period of time:

 

Trent Dilfer

Brad Johnson

Eli Manning X2

Joe Flacco

 

Won 5 of them and nobodies like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson won another 6 of them. But some Redskins fans still think that we're going to find the next Peyton Manning while never being in draft position to "find" him.

 

And Cousins is going to get 25M+ from another team because our team wouldn't give him 15-18 2 years ago. No he's not worth it but he's only in position to get that overpaid because our team can't ever make the correct decision.

 

So we're going to trust that the wisdom of Bruce Allen and Doug Williams is going to find the next Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

49 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

So we're going to trust that the wisdom of Bruce Allen and Doug Williams is going to find the next Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson

Even if they do find a guy with that kind of potential, he won't develop here.

[Gregpeck99]

Kirk is playing at a level not as good as Alex Smith.

 

 

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said:

In his entire almost 20 year career Peyton Manning won 2 SBs (he had nothing to do with the 2nd Colt McCoy would've won that one ).

 

Meanwhile during this period of time:

 

Trent Dilfer

Brad Johnson

Eli Manning X2

Joe Flacco

 

Won 5 of them and nobodies like Tom Brady and Russell Wilson won another 6 of them. But some Redskins fans still think that we're going to find the next Peyton Manning while never being in draft position to "find" him.

 

And Cousins is going to get 25M+ from another team because our team wouldn't give him 15-18 2 years ago. No he's not worth it but he's only in position to get that overpaid because our team can't ever make the correct decision.

 

So we're going to trust that the wisdom of Bruce Allen and Doug Williams is going to find the next Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers or Russell Wilson

 

 

Are you really lumping Russell Wilson in with Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady and Drew Brees? Please tell me you don't really believe that. RW has a SB on the D. He threw probably the worst interception in SB history and is currently stinking it up in grand fashion. He is an average QB that will have some good games but also lays big eggs too.

 

You need to move RW up into the Trent Dilfer category, and I am not sure he is even that good.

 

I do agree there is no way I would trust the FO we have to pick another quality QB. But it's really just one person - Bruce Allen. He seems to want to do everything he can to keep the team mediocre.

[Jacoby66forHOF]

29 minutes ago, Gregpeck99 said:

Kirk is playing at a level not as good as Alex Smith.

 

 

 

In fairness Alex Smith has a high #1 pick poised to take his job.  He needs to play at a high level to keep his job.  Not sure he can maintain his level of play over 16 games.  He hasn't the previous 11 years.  

[SkinsFTW]

29 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Are you really lumping Russell Wilson in with Aaron Rogers, Tom Brady and Drew Brees? Please tell me you don't really believe that. RW has a SB on the D. He threw probably the worst interception in SB history and is currently stinking it up in grand fashion.

 

No I was saying that a lot of qbs that are a lot less talented than Peyton Manning have won the sb. Russell Wilson just happens to be one of them.

 

Meanwhile Peyton when he was the best won 1 SB.

 

I'm pretty sure that Cousins is better than a few of those guys. Cousins on that Broncos team would've blown out the Panthers. Cousins instead of Krappernick on that 49er team probably beats the Ravens. Hell, he beat the Ravens with Our team that year.

[goskins10]

20 minutes ago, SkinsFTW said:

 

No I was saying that a lot of qbs that are a lot less talented than Peyton Manning have won the sb. Russell Wilson just happens to be one of them.

 

Meanwhile Peyton when he was the best won 1 SB.

 

I'm pretty sure that Cousins is better than a few of those guys. Cousins on that Broncos team would've blown out the Panthers. Cousins instead of Krappernick on that 49er team probably beats the Ravens. Hell, he beat the Ravens with Our team that year.

 

 

Fair enough. I agree with you 100%. I lived inear Indy during the Manning years. Never a Colts fan but did go to quite a few games just because I could. They never gave him the tools. The one year they had a decent D (when Bob Sanders healthy anyway), they won the single SB.

 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

41 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

They never gave him the tools. The one year they had a decent D (when Bob Sanders healthy anyway), they won the single SB.

 

Let a lot of the NeverKirkers tell it, and that's because it's not possible to pay a large sum to the QB and build a team around them.  Obviously that's crap, but that's the popular narrative right now.

[OVCChairman]

Looking back at the past few years, there are 2 types of teams that have been truly successful.  Either you have an Elite QB or you don't (DUH )  There have been plenty of instances where the team without elite QB play is successful, but all of those instances are built on defense and a run game... and a good portion happen BEFORE their QB gets a big payday.  The question is, do you think this team can build a good enough team around Kirk to achieve that ultimate level of success?   Some think we can, some think we can't.  Kirk CAN win a SB, I have no doubt in my mind.  What I struggle with is can he do it, making 15% of the teams salary, within the next 2 - 3 seasons.  He's going to be 30.  Generally speaking (there are exceptions) this is where the body changes directions, and the prospect of paying someone that kind of money, after they've peaked, makes me wonder if that money is being used to the best of it's abilities.  I don't think we're that far off as far as the teams goes... 2 more good drafts and a positive offseason and we're contenders, i firmly believe that, but i still battle with myself to figure out if we are going to be able to add the missing pieces, while paying Kirk the money he is going to get.