The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[SkinsRx]

Just now, SlkyCaramel said:

 

I again, don't get this logic. 

 

Kirk is taking a risk if he does that. If he says "Oh well, if San Fran is out then I'm not even going to try to negotiate a LTD with the Skins this year. I'll just go to the 49ers next year, hope and pray that I don't regress, hope and pray that the 49ers don't draft a QB this year AND next year who could potentially be competition for me as the starter."  

 

Huh? 

 

Everyone is taking the attitude of "the 49ers will love 30 year old Kirk soooooo much" that no matter what happens this year they'll give him a big contract and won't draft any other QB this year or next year to possibly compete." I find it bizarre. 

 

If I'm a NEW coach who is rebuilding a team and trying to get fans EXCITED about the team again, I don't think putting all of my eggs into a 30 year old QB in 2018 makes a lot of sense. 

 

I think A LOT of people are overestimating the love for Kirk by the 49ers to be honest. 

 

The fact is that by signing the tag this year, Kirk is going to make $24 mil guaranteed.  Then, next season, the Skins won't dare tag him again because it'll be too expensive, so Kirk will leave as a free agent.  Yes,there is a good chance that Kirk's stats aren't as good as last year now that our top 2 receivers are gone.  But even if Kirk's stats are like 3,500 yards, 15 TDs, and 10 INTs, he will still probably get a decent contract close to $20 mil/year because of what he's accomplished the last two seasons AND his familiarity with Kyle's system.  But there's also a chance that Kirk plays well next year too, in which case, he'll be able to demand $25-$30 mil/year.

 

I could see your argument on him looking for a LTD if he was going to be 38 next year, but QBs can be productive even into their upper 30's.  Look at Brees and Brady.  Kirk will only be 30 and will easily be able to play out a 5 or 6 year contract.  Even if the 49ers draft a QB this year, he can spend a season or two as Kirk's backup.  The 49ers have plenty of cap space and can easily afford to do that.  Plus, I would bet that Kirk is going to be one of the top if not THE top QB available next year.

 

Financially speaking, I think it makes a lot of sense for Kirk to play on the tag this year and leave next year.  Market value says Kirk will get a nice fat LTD next year, whether it's from the 49ers or not.  There are guaranteed to be a lot of QB-hungry teams just like there are every year.

[SlkyCaramel]

21 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

If Kirk doesn't sign an LTD with us and SF bombs this season, would SF rather have Kirk or Mason Rudolph from Oklahoma State?  If I have the #1 pick, I take the rookie QB and the cheap contract.  Kirk might end up with the browns.  I am starting to wonder if we really want him enough to make the $23+ million offer. 

 

The one thing I do like is the silence from Kirk, his agent and the team.  That seems like a good sign to me that they are still talking to each other.  I thought the LTD would have before 4pm tomorrow or there would be no news until just before the draft. 

 

Thank you! Finally someone gets what I have been saying this whole time!

 

Everyone keeps acting like Kirk has all the leverage, but he doesn't. Waiting until 2018 is a HUGE risk for him. And the thing is, the 49ers wouldn't even necessarily need the #1 pick because the 2018 QB draft class is expecting to be quite good and deep. 

 

So Kirk can turn down the Skins LTD and then end up a backup or not even getting an offer from the 49ers in 2018 because they get the #4 pick and already have the QB they want to draft in mind....or maybe they do make an offer and it's abyssmal because they're going to draft someone too so they're not going to spend the money. 

 

Now if Kirk just wants the money? Sure he can play on the tag this year, test free agency next year and get a huge paycheck from...someone like the Browns? 

[SkinsRx]

23 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

I am puzzled by Kirks supposed allegiamce to KS

 

Didnt Kyle start RG3 for two seasons ahead of Kirk?  Wasnt it Jay who finally stuck his neck out for Kirk?  Also, and to this i can personally attest, Nobody Ive ever been around in my life drops as many GD bombs as Kyle does on the sidelines.  And Kirk is a devout Christian

 

It just doesnt add up

 

I honestly don't think the Shanahans could've started any other QB for those 2 years considering what they gave up to get RG3.  Not sure if Kyle felt the same way as his dad, but I remember Mike calling Kirk a "franchise QB".  Maybe Mike is whispering in Kyle's ear to get Kirk

[ZRagone]

Regardless of how you feel about Kirk, if he's "worth it" and other such things....

 

The price tags showing up thus far in Free Agency make the notion of $24 a year not look quite as crazy as it may've even 2 days ago. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

Ah **** it. If he wants to stay, stay. If he doesn't want to lets just flip our pick with whoever will take him (starting with the 49ers 2nd over all as first option) draft trubisky, kizer watson or mahomes and just move on. I'm so done with it he can go if he wants to.

[Destino]

The front office, President and GM, should be informed that if the Kirk negotiations result in anything but the Redskins having a productive QB at least as good and as young as Kirk next season, they are fired.  Things happen, I get that, but if your front office gambles on a franchise tag and ends up souring the relationship and losing the player... well that's the kind of major mistake that shouldn't be forgiven.  Not at the QB position, not in this league where a QB is all important.  Bruce should have it made clear that if this situation goes south, he'll be escorted from the building and his things will be mailed to him.  

 

This isn't missing on a draft pick.  This isn't failing to land a free agent.  Screw this up and the team could be set back indefinitely.  

[Rattlesnake88]

We should have signed him before Free Agency. The market this year is insane and is raising his price by the hour. We WILL have to make him highest paid player ever, or he WILL walk next season. Time to sack up.

[Bang]

5 hours ago, Destino said:

The front office, President and GM, should be informed that if the Kirk negotiations result in anything but the Redskins having a productive QB at least as good and as young as Kirk next season, they are fired.  Things happen, I get that, but if your front office gambles on a franchise tag and ends up souring the relationship and losing the player... well that's the kind of major mistake that shouldn't be forgiven.  Not at the QB position, not in this league where a QB is all important.  Bruce should have it made clear that if this situation goes south, he'll be escorted from the building and his things will be mailed to him.  

 

This isn't missing on a draft pick.  This isn't failing to land a free agent.  Screw this up and the team could be set back indefinitely.  

Here here.

This is the root of why i feel like i'd lose my passion for the team. Indefinitely is a truth. I see no silver lining. Hoping for a miracle every single year to be just be competitive.. when we have exactly what we need right here; a draft pick who we have developed.. if they screw this up it indicates two definitive facts, as far as I'm concerned.

1. They have no idea what they are doing. Building a winning team is a concept that totally eludes them.

2. Winning and the long term rewards it brings don't matter nearly as much as making / saving short term money does.

 

And there's no way in hell i could support that.

 

~Bang

[mistertim]

7 hours ago, SkinsRx said:

Yes,there is a good chance that Kirk's stats aren't as good as last year now that our top 2 receivers are gone.  But even if Kirk's stats are like 3,500 yards, 15 TDs, and 10 INTs, he will still probably get a decent contract close to $20 mil/year because of what he's accomplished the last two seasons AND his familiarity with Kyle's system.  But there's also a chance that Kirk plays well next year too, in which case, he'll be able to demand $25-$30 mil/year.

 

 

Who in the world is going to pay a guy who threw 15 TDs and 10 INTs $20 million per year? If he regressed that amount it would also be an indication that he was very reliant on the talent around him for the numbers he put up in 2015/2016. That would give teams pause as well. 

[zoony]

6 hours ago, Destino said:

The front office, President and GM, should be informed that if the Kirk negotiations result in anything but the Redskins having a productive QB at least as good and as young as Kirk next season, they are fired.  Things happen, I get that, but if your front office gambles on a franchise tag and ends up souring the relationship and losing the player... well that's the kind of major mistake that shouldn't be forgiven.  Not at the QB position, not in this league where a QB is all important.  Bruce should have it made clear that if this situation goes south, he'll be escorted from the building and his things will be mailed to him.  

 

This isn't missing on a draft pick.  This isn't failing to land a free agent.  Screw this up and the team could be set back indefinitely.  

 

Accountabiloty you say?  Ha!

[DJHJR86]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

He can turn it around quickly.  And signing Kirk would be one heck of a way to do it.   

 

This is what kills me.  He has the power to make one move, and quiet down most of this drama (and if he really wanted to be petty, make it seem like SM was the Kirk holdout) by signing Kirk.  Why hasn't this happened yet?  

[carex]

7 hours ago, SkinsRx said:

 

I honestly don't think the Shanahans could've started any other QB for those 2 years considering what they gave up to get RG3.  Not sure if Kyle felt the same way as his dad, but I remember Mike calling Kirk a "franchise QB".  Maybe Mike is whispering in Kyle's ear to get Kirk

 

all they needed to do the second year was say "We just don't think Robert's knee is quite up to par yet" and they have a perfect excuse.  RG3 spent a good part of that second year as a standing target.  Rush five guys you'll probably get him, rush six and you definitely will.  And then you have the potential to trade one of them if Kirk plays well.

[Gizmo 3squire]

2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This is what kills me.  He has the power to make one move, and quiet down most of this drama (and if he really wanted to be petty, make it seem like SM was the Kirk holdout) by signing Kirk.  Why hasn't this happened yet?  

 

Because to me, deep down in my gut he doesn't want Kirk.

[Llevron]

It's pretty simple to me. The Redskins are HIS team. His pops made this ****! No one else deserves to run it. 

 

Or something like that.  

[WelshSkinsFan]

49 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

This is what kills me.  He has the power to make one move, and quiet down most of this drama (and if he really wanted to be petty, make it seem like SM was the Kirk holdout) by signing Kirk.  Why hasn't this happened yet?  

 

Not to overcomplicate things but I do believe both sides are waiting to see what the market looks like once FA officially gets started so I did not truly think a deal would get done yet.  Frustrating as it is to us it does not really benefit either side to sign just yet, the team is hoping Kirk ends up with fewer options than he thought and Kirk's camp wants to see what some of the FA contracts look like before setting their price.  There is still evidence that both sides are talking and as has been mentioned before, Von Miller did not get his deal done in Denver until July 15th last year so there is a lot of time left.

[Skinsinparadise]

Mike Jones on 106.7 throwing out some nuggets.  I know some doubt him as a source but I always found him mostly credible with an exception or two.  But who knows?

 

Scot wanted to resign Kirk in the middle of the 2015 season and then in 2016.  Bruce and Danny said no.

 

Bruce and Danny have some lingering resentment to Shanny and the whole RG3/Kirk drill.   Some in the building tell him that its tough for Bruce/Danny to get over that and giving Kirk a big contract vindicates Shanny

 

Bruce blamed leaks relating to Kirk on Scot.  Jones said the building has had leaks before Scot got there and still does -- and he knows some of the blame for leaks at Scot is unfair and pointed in the wrong direction 

 

Kirk's people give credit to Jay and Scot for him becoming a starter.  Kirk likes Scot but Kirk thinks Scot believes he has a ceiling that's smaller than what Jay thinks the ceiling is -- so Kirk felt compelled to prove something to him.  

[skinsmania123]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 Kirk likes Scot but Kirk thinks Scot believes he has a ceiling that's smaller than what Jay thinks the ceiling is -- so Kirk felt compelled to prove something to him.  

 I think this line alone demonstrates that while SM supported a LTD with Cousin's he wanted it to be fair based upon his perception of that "ceiling" for Cousin's.  The deal could have had so many incentives built in if Kirk was willing to PROVE his ability to rise above SM's expectations.    Kirk Cousin's as just one example had countless weapons last year and yet regressed in the RZ big time in 2016.  There are no excuses given the talent that existed on the roster.   I can't stand the apologists.  Sounds like SM was realistic and fair.  

[Est.1974]

So bottom line, is he getting traded or are we gonna throw a 6/150 deal his way to deflect from a shocking lead into FA

[Jim Bob]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/08/bad-blood-may-keep-washington-from-dealing-with-49ers/

 

Quote

Kevin Jones of KNBR reports that Washington owner Daniel Snyder “is holding onto bad blood” between himself and 49ers coach Kyle Shanahan. Snyder doesn’t want to help Shanahan succeed, which could keep the owner from ever signing off on any trade.

In the weeks preceding the firing of Mike and Kyle Shanahan at the end of the 2013 season, plenty of leaks unflattering to the front office emerged, with Mike believed to be the ultimate source. Last year, Mike Shanahan went on the record with his concerns regarding Snyder.

None of this changes the fact that getting a fair trade for Cousins may be much better than keeping him for 2017 and then either letting him walk away in 2018 or paying him $28.78 million (under the transition tag) or $34.47 million (under the franchise tag) for one more year. If he walks away next year, he goes straight to San Francisco and Washington simply gets credit toward its compensatory draft pick formula.

But billionaires, as we are learning almost every day, don’t always do the reasonable, sensible, or logical thing. And they tend to hold grudges even more strongly than people with far less money.

 

I get the feeling that this ends up with Cousins playing on the tag again this year...

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 I think this line alone demonstrates that while SM supported a LTD with Cousin's he wanted it to be fair based upon his perception of that "ceiling" for Cousin's.  The deal could have had so many incentives built in if Kirk was willing to PROVE his ability to rise above SM's expectations.    Kirk Cousin's as just one example had countless weapons last year and yet regressed in the RZ big time in 2016.  There are no excuses given the talent that existed on the roster.   I can't stand the apologists.  Sounds like SM was realistic and fair.  

 

You are extrapolating quite a bit.  Scot was the same guy who admitted to Jason Cole that if Kirk goes out there and does it again, he'd have to overpay Kirk and give him a big contract and he was fine with that.

 

If people want to question Mike Jones as a source, that's cool.  But if you use him as a source on this subject he was billboard level clear that Bruce and Dan not Scot were the obstacles to getting Kirk signed to a LTD.  And cited that as one of the key sources of tensions between Scot and Bruce.  

 

on another note:

1.  
2.  

   Grant Paulsen‏Verified account @granthpaulsen  10m10 minutes ago

   More

   Source tells me Kirk Cousins' camp offered the #Redskins a "3-year deal last February worth $19.5M a year w/ significant guarantees

 

 

 

 

 

[DJHJR86]

Just came here to share the info about Dan/Allen being bitter about Cousins performance somehow vindicating Shanahan.  If the QB who shall not be named had put up 2 seasons with numbers identical to Cousins 2015-2016 seasons, he'd already have been locked up by now.

[goskins10]

For what it's worth - and I am not sure how much - Adam Shefter on Mike and Mike said that when talking to the Redskins, several teams have inquired about Kirk and all were told no. He also said the team - Bruce Allen specifically, said Kirk Cousins is not available for a trade. I am not a huge fan of Adam but he did say this on national TV not a twitter and not some internet article. It is also consistent with what has been said in the public.

 

Ryan Clark went on to say that Dan S and Bruce A are huge Redskins fans which lead them to make emotional decisions instead of football decisions. He also believes that there is more to the Scot M story than just football. He did not cite anyone, just going off his own knowledge of the Redskins organization. I tend to believed him more than most. He has been mostly even handed when talking about he Skins and he was a player - not just a paid NFL.com journalist.

 

Take it for what's worth.

[Peregrine]

2 hours ago, Bang said:

Here here.

This is the root of why i feel like i'd lose my passion for the team. Indefinitely is a truth. I see no silver lining. Hoping for a miracle every single year to be just be competitive.. when we have exactly what we need right here; a draft pick who we have developed.. if they screw this up it indicates two definitive facts, as far as I'm concerned.

1. They have no idea what they are doing. Building a winning team is a concept that totally eludes them.

2. Winning and the long term rewards it brings don't matter nearly as much as making / saving short term money does.

 

And there's no way in hell i could support that.

 

~Bang

This was indeed the easiest offseason.  This offseason was going to be so easy, a baby could do it.  

 

You had your QB who said he wanted to be back here.  Your offense was set, you just needed to keep the pieces in tact, save one. You had a boat load of cap room, more than you have had in quite possibly a decade, to bring in the key couple of defensive players you need.  You had 10 picks that you could also use to pick up a couple more starters and fill out the depth of the team.  You had more resources than you have EVER had.  This offseason was supposed to be the easy one.  And then Redskins.

 

If they manage to mess this up, after having success HANDED TO THEM on a silver platter, sitting right in front of them like a ripe fruit to be plucked, if they would only check their ego a little, at the door, then there is no hope for there ever being a future.  I have a son, a daughter, and a wife with whom I can spend my time, and if I instead chose to spend it on what I KNOW will be a complete waste of it, then shame on me.  If this all goes down, then I will forever hate Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder with a passion reserved for very few, for destroying one of my all-time favorite things in this world.

[LightningBuggs]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Mike Jones on 106.7 throwing out some nuggets.  I know some doubt him as a source but I always found him mostly credible with an exception or two.  But who knows?....

 

Bruce and Danny have some lingering resentment to Shanny and the whole RG3/Kirk drill.   Some in the building tell him that its tough for Bruce/Danny to get over that and giving Kirk a big contract vindicates Shanny....

 

 

Super.  So now an NFL team is being run by a couple of vindictive teenagers.

[Bang]

2 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

This was indeed the easiest offseason.  This offseason was going to be so easy, a baby could do it.  

 

You had your QB who said he wanted to be back here.  Your offense was set, you just needed to keep the pieces in tact, save one. You had a boat load of cap room, more than you have had in quite possibly a decade, to bring in the key couple of defensive players you need.  You had 10 picks that you could also use to pick up a couple more starters and fill out the depth of the team.  You had more resources than you have EVER had.  This offseason was supposed to be the easy one.  And then Redskins.

 

If they manage to mess this up, after having success HANDED TO THEM on a silver platter, sitting right in front of them like a ripe fruit to be plucked, if they would only check their ego a little, at the door, then there is no hope for there ever being a future.  I have a son, a daughter, and a wife with whom I can spend my time, and if I instead chose to spend it on what I KNOW will be a complete waste of it, then shame on me.  If this all goes down, then I will forever hate Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder with a passion reserved for very few, for destroying one of my all-time favorite things in this world.

EXACTLY.. this offseason was to establish the long term goals, and build the defense so as to begin to become a COMPLETE team.

So close.

That is what hurts. ..I say without it being over yet. Still hope for me to sign Kirk. If they do that, I can swallow a lot of my bile. As far as I'm concerned the two main pieces are Kirk and Jay. One down...

 

~Bang