The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[XtremeFan55]

August 14, 2016.   Kirk Cousins states in an interview that he wants to emulate the San Antonio Spurs..."a team that wins without any drama".  

 

And here we are folks smack dab in the middle of unnecessary drama at the worst possible time....

 

I hate the drama myself.  The end of 2013 was pure hell as a fan.  We got two years of peace and quiet and it's back in full force again...

 

I just know when this is over many fans are just going to walk away for good.

 

I was thinking that getting rid of Bruce Allen would be a nice clean start...but knowing Snyder, he would just find another minion.   

 

20- something years of the same tiresome dysfunctional drama can really wear on you....

 

[Commander -JB-]

7 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Is there a silent "K" at the end of Kirks name that I'm just not hearing in that interview with Bruce Allen? Dude doesn't even get his name right, how could anyone want this guy running the show and evaluating talent. 

Wtf!  My god! Kurt Cousins SMH just fold the franchise at this point.

[Skinsinparadise]

22 minutes ago, beachboy757 said:

Appearanly it doesn't matter if anyone from the actual Redskins organization says they want Kirk. I guess it has to be confirmed by Mike Jones, Chris Russell or Ian Rappaport to be true?

 

I've probably been the most optimistic guy on this thread about a deal getting done and for quite some time.  As the clock keeps ticking and it hasn't happened yet, its hard for me to ignore just about every local-national reporter saying it won't happen.  Even with that, I still think they get a deal done.  My point is if the beat-national reporters are correct and that is Kirk wants 24 million or slightly over a year and would sign that but the Redskins haven't offered that yet -- than someone in the FO hasn't at least so far been willing to do so.  Scot apparently is irrelevant at this point.  So Bruce is now on the spot.  And I don't think it would hurt to put Bruce's feet to the fire some on the contract.  

 

IMO if this is Bruce's show now -- from a team PR stand point-reassure the fans that the franchise is headed towards good times -- the dude right now is a hot mess.   He can turn it around quickly.  And signing Kirk would be one heck of a way to do it.   

[worldpost]

I'm so tired of the media in this town....   The harpies are at the door, is it really all falling apart, because they say so?.  There is little talk of facts, This being DC that should surprise no one, however I find it deplorable how they crawl over each other to get to their "dead body", to see who can tweet faster, or so they can retweet each other ad nausea.  

 

The fact is Kirk is still here for now.. Garcon is not..  We have signed Davis and given three RFA tenders if memory serves.

McC may or may not be here..  This means little in the overall scheme of things as the parts are what is important, not the sniping of grown men trying to play gotcha on social media.

[XtremeFan55]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/redskins/washington-redskins-how-daniel-snyder-found-his-man-in-mike-shanahan/2011/09/07/gIQA1D0oIK_story.html?utm_term=.d42bd3d1ae99

 

Something worth reading again.....extreme exasperation, booze, a few close sycophants, and fly by the seat of your pants decision making....

[RemoveSnyder]

1 hour ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Don't forget to tip your waitress after this comedy show 

 

Whoever trademarked Clownshoes is about to get a windfall. 

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've probably been the most optimistic guy on this thread about a deal getting done and for quite some time.  As the clock keeps ticking and it hasn't happened yet, its hard for me to ignore just about every local-national reporter saying it won't happen.  Even with that, I still think they get a deal done.  My point is if the beat-national reporters are correct and that is Kirk wants 24 million or slightly over a year and would sign that but the Redskins haven't offered that yet -- that someone in the FO hasn't at least so far been willing to do so.  Scot apparently is irrelevant at this point.  So Bruce is now on the spot.  And I don't think it would hurt to put Bruce's feet to the fire some on the contract.  

 

IMO if this is Bruce's show now -- from a team PR stand point-reassure the fans the dude right now is a hot mess.   He can turnaround it around quickly.  And signing Kirk would be one heck of a way to do it.   

 

I agree with you.

 

Honestly, I really don't care how much of the article is accurate or not. It could all be true that they argued about players but that had nothing to do with the separation. As someone pointed out Beathard and Gibbs had some knock down drag outs over players. So they could have disagreed about players but ultimately had other issues.

 

But if they are true Bruce and Scot are both babies. Who is worse? Have no idea. They were building something good here. For them to not be able to find a way to work it out is just stupid.

 

Having said that, the ball is in Bruce's court. He can shut this all down by signing Kirk. If he doesn't we will know it's all true and will need to brace for more ****ty seasons.

[Birdlives]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've probably been the most optimistic guy on this thread about a deal getting done and for quite some time.  As the clock keeps ticking and it hasn't happened yet, its hard for me to ignore just about every local-national reporter saying it won't happen.  Even with that, I still think they get a deal done.  My point is if the beat-national reporters are correct and that is Kirk wants 24 million or slightly over a year and would sign that but the Redskins haven't offered that yet -- than someone in the FO hasn't at least so far been willing to do so.  Scot apparently is irrelevant at this point.  So Bruce is now on the spot.  And I don't think it would hurt to put Bruce's feet to the fire some on the contract.  

 

IMO if this is Bruce's show now -- from a team PR stand point-reassure the fans that the franchise is headed towards good times -- the dude right now is a hot mess.   He can turn it around quickly.  And signing Kirk would be one heck of a way to do it.   

 

Pretty much where I am. The one saving grace that would quell all this other noise is to lock up the QB. 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

The vision is they just cleaned house, brought in fresh blood at GM and coach for 6 years and dumped a lot of the high-priced drama from the past. From SMith to Bethea to Martin to Colin, the team obviously has a plan in mind. Will it work? Who knows but it looks clear to me they have an idea as to what they want to do moving forward. I expect Ahmad Brooks to be gone which means Staley and Hoyer are the only two players over 30 on contract (And Staley is on a very reasonable deal).

 

 

This is what walterfootball.com says about the 49ers coaching and FO moves so far:

 

49ers hire DC Robert Saleh: C Grade
The 49ers have a head coach who is new to the job entirely, so one would think that he'd obtain coordinators with experience. That is not the case, as Kyle Shanahan has brought in Robert Saleh to be his defensive coordinator.

Saleh has no coordinating experience, and he's actually just been a positional coach since 2014. Before that, he was a quality control coach for the Texans and Seahawks. It's fair to question whether the 38-year-old Saleh is ready for the job. Perhaps he is, but he doesn't have the resume to say that he is. Saleh has his work cut out for him, as San Francisco's defense is horrific. Someone with more experience would have issues turning things around, so it's hard to imagine Saleh doing it.

I'm going to grade this as a "C." It's not a promising hire, but I won't say it'll be a sure-fire failure.

 

 

49ers hire HC Kyle Shanahan: A- Grade
I could have graded this weeks ago, but I wanted to wait until it was official. The worst kept secret in the NFL was that Kyle Shanahan would be San Francisco's new head coach, and they were finally able to hire him today.

I don't see any issues with this move. Shanahan goofed in the Super Bowl by not running the ball with a fourth-quarter lead to set up an imperative field goal, but he's done a great job overall as an offensive coordinator over the years. He's learned from great coaches, including Jon Gruden, and of course, his father. He's been a coordinator since 2008, so he's ready to take the reins of a franchise.

It's unclear if Shanahan will be a good head coach, but he's definitely a promising hire. It'll be imperative for owner Jed York to be patient for a change. York has fired coaches very eagerly, but that's not a recipe for success. Shanahan projects to be light years better than Jim Tomsula and Chip Kelly, but he'll need at least four years to turn things around because the 49ers are an absolute mess.

 

 

(this part was interesting...notice the sections in bold lol)

 

49ers to fire GM Trent Baalke: A++ Grade
I don't think I've ever given an A++ grade for a coach hiring or firing, but this certainly warrants one. Trent Baalke has finally been axed as the 49ers' general manager, per a Jay Glazer report.

I can't believe it's finally happened. Baalke, along with Jed York, destroyed the 49ers' once-great franchise. Baalke got rid of Jim Harbaugh because he couldn't get along with a top-five NFL head coach. He followed that up by hiring "yes man" Jim Tomsula as a replacement, and he predictably proved to be a disaster. Baalke then brought in Chip Kelly, who was a proven failure as an NFL head coach. Kelly had already shown that he didn't understand simple NFL concepts, so hiring him was an insanely stupid decision.

Baalke's personnel moves were also very questionable. He managed to nail some draft picks, but he whiffed on plenty of selections, including A.J. Jenkins (first round, 2012), LaMichael James (second round, 2012), Tank Carradine (second round, 2013), and so on. He overpaid for some players - why are Vance McDonald and Garrett Celek getting a combined $50 million? - and made horrible moves in free agency, signing Zane Beadles, Reggie Bush (4 years, $16 million!) and Torrey Smith (5 years, $40 million!!!!).

I could list more examples, but the 1 p.m. NFL games are about to start. The point is that the remaining 49er fans should be absolutely thrilled that Baalke is finally gone. Hopefully their next general manager doesn't fire a top NFL head coach because of ego concerns.

 

 

(So they're 2 months removed from what fans are saying the Redskins are going through right now lol...no problem, though--walterfootball is optimistic the next GM has to be better. Only to follow up with this lol)

 

49ers hire GM John Lynch: JED YORK IS THE WORST OWNER OF ALL TIME Grade
The 49ers have hired John Lynch to be their general manager. John Lynch. The color analyst for FOX. The guy who used to play safety for the Broncos and Buccaneers and then went right into the broadcasting booth. The guy with absolutely no scouting or personnel decision-making experience. That John Lynch.

I actually had to check the date to see if it was April Fools' Day. I can't believe this hire. The last time an NFL team brought in a TV analyst to be a general manager, the Lions hired Matt Millen, and we saw how that worked out.

The 49ers interviewed plenty of people who could've done a great job as the general manager. And yet, they failed to bring in any of them, opting for someone completely unqualified for the job instead. Lynch is a smart guy who is obviously very knowledgeable about football, but he's not capable of being an NFL general manager; not without any sort of experience.

This is completely embarrassing. With this hire, Jed York has established himself as the worst owner of all time in any sport. It's quite the accomplishment. York should throw himself a parade and hire more people to tell him how cool he is and what a great job he's doing. That seems to be the only thing he's good at.

 

 

 

Again, I think making the claim that the 49ers have an obvious vision for the direction of the team needs more time to pass before that claim can hold any validity. Let's see how well they hold to their "vision" when the team goes 2-14, there are stories about disgruntled players galore (and if Garcon signs with them, there will be lol), leaks abound, and Cousins signing a LTD with the Skins means their game of "We'll just wait for him to become a free agent next year" is seen as blowing up in their faces. I wonder if the "Worst Owner Of All Time" will be patient and say "No worries, we have a vision"...

 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree with you.

 

Honestly, I really don't care how much of the article is accurate or not. It could all be true that they argued about players but that had nothing to do with the separation. As someone pointed out Beathard and Gibbs had some knock down drag outs over players. So they could have disagreed about players but ultimately had other issues.

 

But if they are true Bruce and Scot are both babies. Who is worse? Have no idea. They were building something good here. For them to not be able to find a way to work it out is just stupid.

 

Having said that, the ball is in Bruce's court. He can shut this all down by signing Kirk. If he doesn't we will know it's all true and will need to brace for more ****ty seasons.

 

For me I want a personnel guy not a money guy to have final say on personnel.  Bruce said in his press conference at the time of the hire that Scot has final say on personnel.  If Mike Jones' article is correct, Bruce lied.  So I don't see them as being both babies.  Bruce to me is stepping out of his lane and taking control that I'd rather he not have. 

 

But yeah if all of that crap is coupled with Kirk leaving then I think congratulations Bruce for IMO running the most dysfunctional off season in Redskins history easily eclipsing any Vinny off season.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Again, I think making the claim that the 49ers have an obvious vision for the direction of the team needs more time to pass before that claim can hold any validity. Let's see how well they hold to their "vision" when the team goes 2-14, there are stories about disgruntled players galore (and if Garcon signs with them, there will be lol), leaks abound, and Cousins signing a LTD with the Skins means their game of "We'll just wait for him to become a free agent next year" is seen as blowing up in their faces. I wonder if the "Worst Owner Of All Time" will be patient and say "No worries, we have a vision"...

 

 

I can't speak for everyone but I think most meant what I did on this point.  And the point isn't projecting about SF's future or for that matter studying their past.  It's the present.  It's that when you hire a new regime in that moment there is an air of optimism and usually a new coach and GM bring with them a new direction.  There is hope.  We should know that better than most -- it usually all feels good in year #1.  So SF is in the throes of chapter 1 with their new regime and we see them aggressively adding pieces to make them competitive.  

 

The Redskins on the other hand are in the throes of Nightmare on Elm Street and we are wondering if they are going to end up at the end dodging Freddy Krueger.    Then you couple that with SF adding weapons (including his favorite one from the Redskins) while the Redskins are subtracting them.  And you got a head coach who thinks he walks on water.  I don't think the Redskins are the team at the moment sitting on the high perch.   That can change but at this present moment no one is saying SF is dysfunctional -- those arrows are pointed at the Redskins.  I doubt Kirk cares at the moment where the arrows were pointing in 2016.

[HTTRDynasty]

Looks like both WR options are now out.  Kirk must be ecstatic.

 

 

[goskins10]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

For me I want a personnel guy not a money guy to have final say on personnel.  Bruce said in his press conference that Scot has final say on personnel.  If Mike Jones' article is correct, Bruce lied.  So I don't see them as being both babies.  Bruce to me is stepping out of his lane and taking control that I'd rather he not have. 

 

But yeah if all of that crap is coupled with Kirk leaving then I think congratulations Bruce for IMO running the most dysfunctional off season in Redskins history easily eclipsing any Vinny off season.

 

I too believe it's a problem overall if Bruce is making all the personnel decisions.

 

I probably let my anger seep through so maybe babies was a bit harsh. Also, I can probably assign more blame to Bruce. Having said that, I seriously doubt Scot is blameless here. It takes two.

 

Holding my assignment of the level of dysfunction to see what actually transpires. There is a chance this can be salvaged. Sign Kirk, get a few key FAs for the D, have a decent draft. Mind you, I don't really expect him/them to pull it off but one can hope.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I can't speak for everyone but I think most meant what I did on this point.  And the point isn't projecting about SF's future or for that matter studying their past.  It's the present.  It's that when you hire a new regime in that moment there is an air of optimism and usually a new coach and GM bring with them a new direction.  There is hope.  We should know that better than most -- it usually all feels good in year #1.  So SF is in the throes of chapter 1 with their new regime and we see them aggressively adding pieces to make them competitive.  

 

The Redskins on the other hand are in the throes of Nightmare on Elm Street and we are wondering if they are going to end up at the end dodging Freddy Krueger.    Then you couple that with SF adding weapons (including his favorite one from the Redskins) while the Redskins are subtracting them.  And you got a head coach who thinks he walks on water.  I don't think the Redskins are the team at the moment sitting on the high perch.   That can change but at this present moment no one is saying SF is dysfunctional -- those arrows are pointed at the Redskins.  I doubt Kirk cares at the moment where the arrows were pointing in 2016.

 

The original comment was that the 49ers have a vision. My original comment was that a new FO regime needs more than 2 months to proclaim they have a vision...especially when those two months come after 3 years of cluster**** lol. Other teams that have had years of cluster**** then get a new regime rarely start winning--in fact, the Skins were the exception. You can check out the Browns and all their new FO/new vision transitions over the last 5 years, all the way up to their owner.

[SlkyCaramel]

 

[zCommander]

6 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

No. Scot picked up RG3's dicey option got Kirk to start.  Either way, there has always been someone in the Redskins FO who went up to bat for Kirk despite him up until mid 2015 giving no reason to. I don't know who's got the loudest voice in Kirk's ear but either he just wants to play in SF in which case he should have said he wasn't going to sign another tag and thus wants to test free agency and therefor being a little more respectful to the team that drafted and allowed him to become the player he is or he doesn't want to be here in which case he should have done the same. Again, this is the kind of poor judgement I would expect from a WR or a CB or any other position, but to get it from your QB, your "leader" is completely unacceptable. 

 

I was going to say Scot/Gruden but I would imagine it had to be Gruden decision at the end to start him. Gruden betting on his job for Kirk so to speak. Either way Kirk has said he likes to stay here. I hope he does. 

[bobandweave]

52 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Looks like both WR options are now out.  Kirk must be ecstatic.

 

 

 

Never going to sign him long term now

 

If we keep him under the tag for one season with bad receivers what is the most likely outcome between these options

 

his play is better then last year, the same as last year, or worse then last year? Think about this your team who has low balled you at every turn now says when your nearing financial life freedom says to you now show us you can do as well with much less

 

These decisions on if he would want to stay or go are directly influenced by who else stayed or went. If he was salty before you know he knows if he plays poorly on this tag it will affect his future earnings here or else where. If people treat you like this that's not who you stay with it's an abusive relationship

 

I don't think I will ever understand why they treated him this badly. It hurts every other QB we will ever have here. The most simplist thing in the world would have been done already if these guys knew what they were doing

 

Make your best offer and if he won't sign it then trade him before anyone ever expected it. We could have gotten a windfall of picks handled correctly. Instead we destroyed his trade value and his best suitor just went with someone else. This couldn't have gone worse then it actually did we the fans deserved better

[SkinsRx]

26 minutes ago, SlkyCaramel said:

 

 

That's kinda bad news for us isn't it?  With Kirk's biggest supporter gone (GMSM), a LTD doesn't seem likely, which means Kirk leaves for San Fran next year and we get nothing in return.  Maybe we should trade him for Garcon...

[PigskinRedskin]

Just now, SkinsRx said:

 

That's kinda bad news for us isn't it?  With Kirk's biggest supporter gone (GMSM), a LTD doesn't seem likely, which means Kirk leaves for San Fran next year and we get nothing in return.  Maybe we should trade him for Garcon...

 

We will trade him for Hoyer.

[SpacePenguin]

They didn't resign either of two 30 year old WRs and you have people acting like it's the end of the world.

 

To each their own, but I'll wait and see the plan (or lack thereof) before flipping out.

[SlkyCaramel]

39 minutes ago, SkinsRx said:

 

That's kinda bad news for us isn't it?  With Kirk's biggest supporter gone (GMSM), a LTD doesn't seem likely, which means Kirk leaves for San Fran next year and we get nothing in return.  Maybe we should trade him for Garcon...

 

I again, don't get this logic. 

 

Kirk is taking a risk if he does that. If he says "Oh well, if San Fran is out then I'm not even going to try to negotiate a LTD with the Skins this year. I'll just go to the 49ers next year, hope and pray that I don't regress, hope and pray that the 49ers don't draft a QB this year AND next year who could potentially be competition for me as the starter."  

 

Huh? 

 

Everyone is taking the attitude of "the 49ers will love 30 year old Kirk soooooo much" that no matter what happens this year they'll give him a big contract and won't draft any other QB this year or next year to possibly compete." I find it bizarre. 

 

If I'm a NEW coach who is rebuilding a team and trying to get fans EXCITED about the team again, I don't think putting all of my eggs into a 30 year old QB in 2018 makes a lot of sense. 

 

I think A LOT of people are overestimating the love for Kirk by the 49ers to be honest. 

[carex]

does everyone remember that Kirk started only four games for the Shanahans?  I just wonder about that

[zoony]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

does everyone remember that Kirk started only four games for the Shanahans?  I just wonder about that

 

I am puzzled by Kirks supposed allegiamce to KS

 

Didnt Kyle start RG3 for two seasons ahead of Kirk?  Wasnt it Jay who finally stuck his neck out for Kirk?  Also, and to this i can personally attest, Nobody Ive ever been around in my life drops as many GD bombs as Kyle does on the sidelines.  And Kirk is a devout Christian

 

It just doesnt add up

[SpacePenguin]

2 minutes ago, zoony said:

 

I am puzzled by Kirks supposed allegiamce to KS

 

Didnt Kyle start RG3 for two seasons ahead of Kirk?  Wasnt it Jay who finally stuck his neck out for Kirk?  Also, and to this i can personally attest, Nobody Ive ever been around in my life drops as many GD bombs as Kyle does on the sidelines.  And Kirk is a devout Christian

 

It just doesnt add up

 

That's because it's mostly media conjecture drummed to troll for clicks.

[ILikeBilly]

If Kirk doesn't sign an LTD with us and SF bombs this season, would SF rather have Kirk or Mason Rudolph from Oklahoma State?  If I have the #1 pick, I take the rookie QB and the cheap contract.  Kirk might end up with the browns.  I am starting to wonder if we really want him enough to make the $23+ million offer. 

 

The one thing I do like is the silence from Kirk, his agent and the team.  That seems like a good sign to me that they are still talking to each other.  I thought the LTD would have before 4pm tomorrow or there would be no news until just before the draft.