tshile Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 No it had nothing to do with money. Like I said - you missed the point. Instead of asking you got all revved up. Don't think I want you doing my homework. Have higher standards. Also Eric Schaffer is, and has been for 14 years, the contract guy for the team. I suppose you knew that though and it was just a slip, right? Right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, tshile said: No it had nothing to do with money. Like I said - you missed the point. Instead of asking you got all revved up. Don't think I want you doing my homework. Have higher standards. Also Eric Schaffer is, and has been for 14 years, the contract guy for the team. I suppose you knew that though and it was just a slip, right? Right. Maybe if you had elaborated on: "I don't think the situation makes it easier to sign other fa's either... " You realize there are many ways of looking that? I took it one way and you are saying something else. Did Bruce say Kirk will be back or did Eric say that on XM radio? I said money guy not the guy who actually writes legal stuff on a contract. I am pretty sure there is a difference. I could be wrong. By the way, I don't get revved up. To me it just read as beating a dead horse. Carry on beating a dead horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 9 minutes ago, zskins said: I said money guy not the guy who actually writes legal stuff on a contract. I Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 12 hours ago, Jumbo said: Not busting on you, just using it in general: As I have said for two years going on three now, while they certainly are connected, Jay's job has never---nor is now---all that tied to kirk, though he gets special credit from the FO for seeing and committing to kirk as the smart move earliest in post-shanny times. After RG3's inability to recover (really, even before) the thought that all the QBs on the roster were temporary placeholders or maybe one might be a backup at best, was a serious fear. ...except for the Shannahanies... he was drafted to be higher bait in years to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 11 hours ago, Unbias said: I think it's more a comment on timing. This is year 4 for Jay as the HC. In his three seasons as the coach he went from rebuild (4-12) to the playoffs (9-7) to a slight regression (no playoffs, 8-7-1). There are many moving pieces, but if the team regresses to let's say 7 wins or less then it might be time to look in a different direction. Where the two get somewhat linked is that the QB is the most important position on the field. I think Allen/Snyder are somewhat lining up Kirk's big contract to Jay's potential extension. If both Kirk and Jay do well this season, then look to extend both. If Kirk plays bad and the team regresses, then fire everyone and give the new coach the the cap space to pick his own QB. It's sad to think that the current coaching staff and players are plan A, but plan B is also being accounted for. Either way I think Jay and Kirk are in very similar spots. This year will be huge for their job security. The only problem is if Kirk does exactly what he did last 1.7 seasons then we'll keep looking to previous negotiations thinking we could have had him for less. oh..it's unquestionalably(<---word(?)) a house of cards..undeniablaly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Is there any chance we could sign Cousins to a LTD before FA starts? If we could get it done and get his 2017 cap figure down to about $15m and the extra $10m could go towards resigning Garcon who is Cousins go to guy. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefanskins Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 so 04/28/17 is D-day....we have to know our QB situation and any team Kourtin' Kirk needs to know by then...so ANY trade will be pre-04/28...no trade = no team deemed Kirk worthy enough...that can only help our negotiations 25 minutes ago, markmills67 said: Is there any chance we could sign Cousins to a LTD before FA starts? If we could get it done and get his 2017 cap figure down to about $15m and the extra $10m could go towards resigning Garcon who is Cousins go to guy. HTTR yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MassSkinsFan Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 13 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: With track record the Skin's have had under Snyder why should they be given the benefit of the doubt? McCartney's public statements have been very reassuring and have gotten me to climb off the ledge but prior to that I had no faith whatsoever this was heading to a logical conclusion and I don't fault the media people feeling the same way. Thanks for posting this @Veryoldschool It got me thinking: what is the trend for our team since Danny took over, and is that changing under the new FO and head coach? So, I plotted our records since 1999 and looked at the data. One thing I did was include linear regressions for five time periods: 99-present, 99-13 (pre-Jay and SMGM), 14-16, 99-09 (Vinny) and 10-16 (post-Vinny). NOTE: the 14-16 regression should be taken with a grain of salt since we're only looking at three points, hardly enough n to be sure. What I saw: 99-present the trend is from just under 8 wins to 6 wins per season 99-13 the trend is from just over 8 wins to just below 6 wins per season 14-16 the trend is from 5 wins to 9 wins per season The Vinny years showed a steady decline from just over 8 wins per season to 6 losses per season Post-Vinny we've gone from just under 6 wins per season to just over 7 - slow progress, but trending up This tells me you're right to be skeptical, but that there is a possibility of hope for an actual positive trend to emerge. I guess this is what's making this such a difficult period of time (well, that and it being the offseason) - we have to wait and see how it goes. PS - rankings of HC winning percentage: #1 Norval Turner (.563) #2 Marty Schottenheimer (.500) #3 Joe Gibbs II (.469) #4 Jay Gruden (.450) Three Way Tie for Last (great album btw): Spurrier, Zorn and Red Lobster (.375) Average win percentage for 99-16: .434 That's depressing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hail2theSkins24 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Like others have stated, it wouldn't surprise me if Skins brass are feverishly trying to get a LTD done with Kirk to distract all the nonsense going on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 5 hours ago, Stefanskins said: ...except for the Shannahanies... he was drafted to be higher bait in years to come from my post Quote though he gets special credit from the FO for seeing and committing to kirk as the smart move earliest in post-shanny times. but I like people keeping me on my toes, amigo---it helps with my pirouettes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 12 hours ago, tshile said: Don't think I want you doing my homework. Have higher standards. Also Eric Schaffer is, and has been for 14 years, the contract guy for the team. I suppose you knew that though and it was just a slip, right? Right. 13 hours ago, tshile said: Go on, tell me about this actual data. Also you missed the point on fa's but that's unsurprising. First you want him to give you the numbers, then you don't. Which is it. And yes, this has been beaten to death, and the numbers show Cousins to be a top 5-7 QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 16 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: the dysfunction and reputation of embarrassment that is stuck to this franchise is far more than Snyder Yes, it's also the people Snyder chooses to surround himself with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tsailand Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 hours ago, MassSkinsFan said: Average win percentage for 99-16: .434 You need to count the tie as half a win and half a loss, which brings him up to .436. However, that doesn't give the full picture of how bad Snyder has been, because he doesn't deserve credit for the 10-6 season in 1999, which was only a few months after he bought the team and didn't have time to mess things up. We should also discount the 8-8 season under Marty and the most recent two seasons where the credit goes to our real GM who has taken back some control (not to mention lucking into Kirk, who Snyder hated). That would drop him to .402 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Morneblade said: And yes, this has been beaten to death, and the numbers show Cousins to be a top 5-7 QB. Has anyone sent this to SM, Allen, and Snyder? I feel like it's something they should know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peregrine Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 So it looks like they are at least above $20, that puts them in the right direction, and maybe not as far off as people think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Good summation of my position below. I just can't see them letting Kirk go even if there are some in the building equivocating on it. The PR consequence would be catastrophic. http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/need-know-will-redskins-risk-downside-letting-cousins-go There are fewer quarterbacks than there are teams that need quarterbacks. Unless you’re in a position like the 2006 Chargers where you have a ready replacement, you pay the man whatever it takes to keep them. Quality quarterbacks just don’t hit the free agent market. No quarterback who passed for more than 4,000 years in back-to-back seasons, as Cousins has, has played for another team the next season. It just doesn’t happen. Right now, the word is that the Redskins are unwilling to pay Cousins what he is asking for, presumably a deal with an average annual value at least equal to his $24 million franchise tag salary. But they have time to change their minds. Will the Redskins just say no to this NFL conventional wisdom that has been around ever since the onset of the free agency era in 1993? Can they let Cousins walk without a viable option to replace him? When it comes down to it I find it hard to believe that the Redskins will ignore 24 years of data when it comes to free agency the quarterback position. Teams have let players, great players, at every other position walk out the door. But if a quarterback has a good season or two, he stays. The downside of letting a quarterback like Cousins walk can be huge. If he goes on to be a solid player for someone else and the Redskins go back to struggling to find an answer like they did for over 20 years between Mark Rypien and Cousins, they would be subject to endless ridicule, and rightfully so. On top of that they will struggle to stay in consistent contention for the playoffs. When it comes down to it, will the organization set itself up to be in that situation? They have a well-earned reputation for making some moves that go spectacularly wrong (see RG3 trade and Albert Haynesworth contract for examples). you have to wonder if in the final analysis, they will see that the downside of paying Cousins more than they may think he’s worth is preferable to the downside of the nightmare scenario of seeing him succeed elsewhere while they continue to search for a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Kirk ain't taking 20mil p/y. That's so 2016. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XtremeFan55 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 hours ago, markmills67 said: Is there any chance we could sign Cousins to a LTD before FA starts? If we could get it done and get his 2017 cap figure down to about $15m and the extra $10m could go towards resigning Garcon who is Cousins go to guy. HTTR There is no reason why we can't or shouldn't. We know what he wants and want it will take. Well, we should know but that would require actually negotiating and speaking to his agent which I am not sure has been done in any type of actual detail yet. It should be really easy to get this deal done. Dragging it out another 4 months trying to pinch pennies doesn't help anyone in the situation. 12 minutes ago, XtremeFan55 said: Just a thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Morneblade said: And yes, this has been beaten to death, and the numbers show Cousins to be a top 5-7 QB. It just seems like the only place you really hear about Kirk being a top 5 / Tier 1 sort of guy is on ES. Outside of here the general consensus according to people in the league as well as sports writers/analysts, seems to be that Kirk is a Tier 3/borderline Tier 2 guy. Now that can obviously be taken with a grain of salt because the league sources who are being asked this are doing it anonymously (or just referred to as an "NFC GM" or something generic), and sports analysts can be dumbasses. However, it just feel like we're overestimating how good everyone outside of ES thinks he is. I really haven't seen any analyses were he's above top 15 to top 10. And while sports writers can be dumbasses and NFL GMs, etc can certainly be wrong....the same can be said for fans on a message board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 59 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: Kirk ain't taking 20mil p/y. That's so 2016. I would agree. I just don't see any incentive for Kirk to sign a deal right now. He's got $50 million banked already. If he simply has a non-catastrophic year, he can go on the open market and demand nothing less than Osweiler's deal. That's $37 million in guaranteed money. That would be $87 million in guaranteed dollars give or take. For the Skins to get there would require $60 million in guaranteed money. I don't know if they can do that, but that would be my floor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I know we had to start somewhere so we have offered Cousins $20m per year. What exactly do you fellow Skins think Cousins agent is looking for? Would Cousins not take say $22m a year but with more money guaranteed, let's say $80/85m ?. HTTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 6 minutes ago, mistertim said: It just seems like the only place you really hear about Kirk being a top 5 / Tier 1 sort of guy is on ES. Outside of here the general consensus according to people in the league as well as sports writers/analysts, seems to be that Kirk is a Tier 3/borderline Tier 2 guy. Now that can obviously be taken with a grain of salt because the league sources who are being asked this are doing it anonymously (or just referred to as an "NFC GM" or something generic), and sports analysts can be dumbasses. However, it just feel like we're overestimating how good everyone outside of ES thinks he is. I really haven't seen any analyses were he's above top 15 to top 10. And while sports writers can be dumbasses and NFL GMs, etc can certainly be wrong....the same can be said for fans on a message board. Don't really care what outside people say but the point you make isn't true. Eric Weddle was on First Take just the other day, saying Kirk is a top 10 QB. David Carr said on NFL Network he's one of the best QB's in the league and top 10 guy, link below. Shannon Sharpe was singing his praises recently. Adam Schefter has said he's top 10. Jimmy Johnson has said he's a franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 13 minutes ago, mistertim said: It just seems like the only place you really hear about Kirk being a top 5 / Tier 1 sort of guy is on ES. Outside of here the general consensus according to people in the league as well as sports writers/analysts, seems to be that Kirk is a Tier 3/borderline Tier 2 guy. Now that can obviously be taken with a grain of salt because the league sources who are being asked this are doing it anonymously (or just referred to as an "NFC GM" or something generic), and sports analysts can be dumbasses. However, it just feel like we're overestimating how good everyone outside of ES thinks he is. I really haven't seen any analyses were he's above top 15 to top 10. And while sports writers can be dumbasses and NFL GMs, etc can certainly be wrong....the same can be said for fans on a message board. Putting Kirk on a scale like that is basically pointless. Is he a viable starter? Yes. Is he one of the 20 best QBs in the league? Yes. Is he young? Yes. Does he have any kind of injury history? No. It's purely supply/demand. There are a bunch of teams with no quarterback. On the open market, he could more or less name his price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsPassion4Life Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I would make Kirk 3 offers.... 1) 5 yrs, 120 mil - 70 guaranteed 2) 5 yrs, 115 mil - 75 guaranteed 3) 5 yrs, 110 mil - 80 guaranteed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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