The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[PortisBetts]

Until someone from Redskins park says anything, everything is conjecture and guessing games.

 

They spoke today by tagging him. Now they move on to a long term deal.

 

If you think Kirk is going to hit the open market and make 28-30 million a year, you are out of your ****ing mind. He either gets traded or gets a LTD. Those are literally the only options. Aside from the fact that no one is going to pay that ludicrous price next year because it is truly just crazy. Everyone keeps bringing up the 3rd year tag. The Redskins are NEVER going to do that, so you can just scrap that as any point of negotiation.

 

I dont feel like typing anymore. Wake me when there is more real news and not talking heads speculating off of darts being thrown at a board.

 

Edit- If you wonder why SM hasnt spoken to the media, nor Gruden, nor Bruce, is because there is no reason to give the media ANYTHING to talk about. You dont think that the Redskins are saying that to Kirk? "Kirk, no one at Redskins park is talking to the media. Our full attention is on getting a deal done with you, working on free agency, and scouting for the draft. We are fully enveloped on building this team and making it as ready as possible for multiple runs at the super bowl."

[CommanderDOOM]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

because I know the team is willing to write me a big ass check, but also needs a team around me.  And a LTD included a signing bonus which means that the base salary needs to go lower

 

 

We can hope so.

[PartyPosse]

13 minutes ago, JMUSkins said:

Just saw this little gem. If he keeps this up and gets some real W's, the $$ will be an afterthought. Pretty impressive so far.

I see a whole lotta Yard stats, but not much else. 

 

Sure you can mention the last stat (4+ TD) but that same year, he had 11 games with 1 or less TDs. 

[rick7423]

To be honest, if KC is given a LTD, with guarantees, I would bet he would take less in the first year to help build the team.

 

I mean, look at his spending patterns (and that  van he drives). He is not one to buy a Lamborghini. 

 

Create a deal that pays the man over time with guaranteed money, and he will work out something to help the team.

 

It can be worked out where the first year is essentially bonus money that does not hit the cap.

 

Only using the FT hurts the team. The LTD can be structured very team friendly first year or 2.

[PartyPosse]

16 minutes ago, rick7423 said:

I cannot disagree more. RGII's first year was magical, almost historic. And I bought in hook line and sinker!

 

BUT, after the injuries, he just played scared. Once you show fear in this league, you are done. You cannot change that perception or get rid of that fear.

 

He was ill prepared for the NFL, never taught to protect himself, and his arrogance was his downfall.

Rg3 also didn't have the talent around him that Kirk did. in 2014, Griffin had Litch, Chester and Compton on the right side. in 2013 outside of Pierre and a rookie Reed, his top weapon was 34 year old Santana Moss. 

 

Not saying RG3 was prepared in any way, but I don't know if Cousins thrives if he had the team around him when he was a rookie and he was forced to start consistently.

[rick7423]

Just now, PartyPosse said:

Rg3 also didn't have the talent around him that Kirk did. in 2014, Griffin had Litch, Chester and Compton on the right side. in 2013 outside of Pierre and a rookie Reed, his top weapon was 34 year old Santana Moss. 

 

Not saying RG3 was prepared in any way, but I don't know if Cousins thrives if he had the team around him when he was a rookie and he was forced to start consistently.

Very true, but he needed to be smarter and prepare better.

After he got hurt, he demanded to be a pocket passer, which he had ZERO experience at.

BUT, this thread is not an RGIII bashing thread, which I also do NOT want to do!

Love the guy! He brought hope to a city desperately looking for something. Unfortunately, it did not work out. God bless him, but time to move on.

Let's move on to KC and start winning LONG TERM!

 

[TheShredder]

One would only imagine that a LTD would be set with a satisfactory amount of guaranteed money and structured to allow the team the most options to push money to a later cap year if needed. They really don't need that as much right now, as they're sitting well with the cap numbers.  If writing a 6 yr deal makes the deal better for renegotiating cap numbers in years to come, then this doesn't hurt KC as long as the guaranteed money is there.  He definitely doesn't need it all in one lump sum or place his team in a situation where he is going to be less successful.  I believe he's a smart guy that is demanding to be shown that he's wanted now and in the future.  That's absolutely reasonable and he's earned that much.  I don't feel like this is going to work out poorly for KC, but feel skeptical about the final numbers...just hopeful that intuition serves up a manageable deal for the teams sake.  25M is the top of the market for QB cap, but not next year or the next.  

[COWBOY-KILLA-]

Very very happy to hear we tagged him and the responses from agent. Encouraging. Here's to getting a deal done.!?

[JMUSkins]

42 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

I see a whole lotta Yard stats, but not much else. 

 

Sure you can mention the last stat (4+ TD) but that same year, he had 11 games with 1 or less TDs. 

That's why I said he needs to get some real W's. 

[goskins10]

4 hours ago, Wildbunny said:

Edit

 

What I hate the most is that for everyone the Broncos where smart last year and nobody ever doubted that Miller would wear another jacket in 2016. But when it's the Redskins, we're just dumb.

 

This 1000 times!  It's amazing that Denver is shrewd and just being smart football people but the Redskins are dysfunctional and completely out of control - for doing the exact same thing!  It would be funny if it were not so sad. 
 

@Skinsinparadise Thanks for posting the McCartney stuff. Excellent to hear. Glad to have some facts to go off.

[Skins-in-CT]

Just listened to the interview.  Sounded optimistic to me, Meeting with the team this week as SIP said.  Also said they weren't angry or upset about the tag or offer from last year, which is contrary to all the WP reports about KC being insulted with a lowball offer.  Thought that was kind of interesting and fits with all that is being said about DC media just throwing negative crap and seeing what sticks.  I don't live in the area so those media sources are my only source of news.  

 

That and ES  

[Veryoldschool]

McCartney's positive comment along with his statement that he's meeting with the Skin's cap guy suggest the big number has be agreed to and they are working out the annual allocations in a team friendly way.  I am greatly relived.  

 

I feared if the wouldn't reach an agreement prior to March 1 it wouldn't happen.  They have finish it but clearly they have agreed to the b

critical parts including the amount, length and Guarantees. Now I infer by McCartney statement the critical heavy lifting of agreeing to an overall amount and guarantee have been achieved over and the short stokes of allocating the annual payments in a team friendly are over.  McCartney is helping to tampen down fans anger at Snyder & company with these positive ststements. He only do this from strength and confidencd.  The Skins probably asked him speak to the media to help,quell a growing fan revolt.  Very good news, very good!  

 

Imagine rooting winning teams for the 10 year!  That is going to a real possibility with Kirk in the fold!

 

[goskins10]

2 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

That argument doesn't work. Surely the football brain trust we have in our FO can discern the difference in a smoke and mirrors season like 2012 and Kirk actually playing the QB position at a high level from the pocket. Completely different. You can see that one is legit and sustainable and one is not 

 

Actually, I am certain that the decision to tag him last year was more about guys like Nick Foles and Matt Cassell - just to name a recent few. Robert only comes into in terms of they spent a lot of resources on a guy that did not turn out so they were a little gun shy. And to be fair Cousins did not really start playing well until the Tampa game. After today I am more certain than ever they get a deal done and all the complaining and gnashing of teeth will have been for nothing.

 

In the end, despite peoples personal takes the FO has handled their business in a professional way. So has Kirk Cousins team. Don't look now but there are adults running the store!

[Veryoldschool]

21 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Rg3 also didn't have the talent around him that Kirk did. in 2014, Griffin had Litch, Chester and Compton on the right side. in 2013 outside of Pierre and a rookie Reed, his top weapon was 34 year old Santana Moss. 

 

Not saying RG3 was prepared in any way, but I don't know if Cousins thrives if he had the team around him when he was a rookie and he was forced to start consistently.

 

You could give Robert Griffin his pick of the best WR's the league and he would fail in the pocket in my opinion because he doesn't think fast enough in the pocket to run a real NFL offense and he would get busted up.  He just isn't blessed with enough spatial intelligence figure it out. He just doesn't the ability.

 

 

[zCommander]

If Kirk wants to be here, like he says, and is looking for stability, like he has said, then I hope he is also pushing the FO to extend Gruden's contract as well. If not then he is not doing a LTD and will be gone along with Gruden at the end of 2017 season. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

You could Robert Griffin his pick of the best WR's the league and he is going to fail in the poket because he don't think face enough in the pocket to run a real NFL offense and he get bust up.  He just isn't bless with enough spatial intelligence figure it out. He just doesn't the ability.

 

 

 

You drunk? Not about the RG3 thing but about your grammar.  

[PartyPosse]

36 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

You could Robert Griffin his pick of the best WR's the league and he is going to fail in the poket because he don't think face enough in the pocket to run a real NFL offense and he get bust up.  He just isn't bless with enough spatial intelligence figure it out. He just doesn't the ability.

 

 

I think I understood and I agree. I'm just saying Kirk would have struggled in his first couple of years because the offense, from the OL to the receivers were really trash. 

[onedrop]

11 hours ago, sebestian said:

Your right.  I am wrong.  Sorry

I'm not certain it is truly a question of right and wrong but it reminds me of an exchange here from years ago. One of those involved, I believe his name was Oldfan, put it best....."you're a better man for it".

 

@thesubmittedone regarding our PMs earlier this month, it appears I may have somewhat incorrect myself.

[Peregrine]

Now we dont know for certain how this will play out, but I think, at the danger of sounding like a broken record, its worth recapping what has happened so far:

 

1. The Redskins say they love Kirk, that he is their QB of the future, and they want to sign him to a LTD.

2. Kirk Cousins says he loves being here, he wants to be in Washington long term, and the ball is in Washingtons court.

3. Nobody says anything to the media.

4. The media says that Kirk Cousins hates Washington, wants to leave, and the Redskins dont see Kirk as the long term QB and want to trade him.  They provide no references except for the random speculation of a Baltimore Ravens scout on a radio show in California.

5. The Redskins exclusive tag Cousins, in essence saying, like they said in the first place, that he is their QB of the future, and they dont want anyone else talking to him.

6. Kirk Cousins agent says, like they said in the first place, that he loves being here, he wants to be in Washington long term, and negotiations are progressing well.

 

I suggest that if the Redskins agree to a long term deal with Cousins, we can all just agree to ignore the Washington Post and a few other select rags from now on, as its just not worth the waste of thought.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Three hopes

 

1. We sign Kirk to a long term deal

2. The contract is as team friendly as possible.

3. Kirk continues to develop and take his game to the next level.

 

Other 232 pages of thread not needed.

 

[srtman04]

8 minutes ago, Peregrine said:

Now we dont know for certain how this will play out, but I think, at the danger of sounding like a broken record, its worth recapping what has happened so far:

 

1. The Redskins say they love Kirk, that he is their QB of the future, and they want to sign him to a LTD.

2. Kirk Cousins says he loves being here, he wants to be in Washington long term, and the ball is in Washingtons court.

3. Nobody says anything to the media.

4. The media says that Kirk Cousins hates Washington, wants to leave, and the Redskins dont see Kirk as the long term QB and want to trade him.  They provide no references except for the random speculation of a Baltimore Ravens scout on a radio show in California.

5. The Redskins exclusive tag Cousins, in essence saying, like they said in the first place, that he is their QB of the future, and they dont want anyone else talking to him.

6. Kirk Cousins agent says, like they said in the first place, that he loves being here, he wants to be in Washington long term, and negotiations are progressing well.

 

I suggest that if the Redskins agree to a long term deal with Cousins, we can all just agree to ignore the Washington Post and a few other select rags from now on, as its just not worth the waste of thought.

 

Yeah they are becoming "Fake News" too....or they are just being exposed for the Fraud that they are.  Very ****ty journalism.....

[HTTRDynasty]

Rotoworld is the worst

 

 

Quote

 

Citing multiple sources familiar with the negotiations, Yahoo's Charles Robinson reports Kirk Cousins would have signed a multi-year deal last offseason if offered $20 million per year by the Redskins.

 

The Redskins botched this situation badly. Their max offer to Cousins last year was $16 million annually, yet they're going to end up paying him $44 million guaranteed for the 2016 and 2017 seasons combined, and risk losing Cousins to free agency next offseason. No NFL player can be franchise tagged three years in a row. Per Robinson, team president Bruce Allen is primarily to blame. Allen has reduced GM Scot McCloughan to a "talent procurement guy" only, while Allen is managing the cap (poorly) and calling almost all of the shots.

 

 

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

For me, tagging him is not news.  We were always gonna tag him.  Now the two sides have the opportunity to hammer out a long term deal, or they will trade him for the best offer they can get.  

 

I don't think we know anymore today about where our FO stands on signing Kirk.  They're just buying time.  No way they play him on the tag and let him walk next year with nothing in return.  No way.

[William Barbour]

3 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Rg3 also didn't have the talent around him that Kirk did. in 2014, Griffin had Litch, Chester and Compton on the right side. in 2013 outside of Pierre and a rookie Reed, his top weapon was 34 year old Santana Moss. 

 

Not saying RG3 was prepared in any way, but I don't know if Cousins thrives if he had the team around him when he was a rookie and he was forced to start consistently.

 

2 of those players were playing in the Super Bowl. One is one of the greatest WR in Redskins history, and Litch was considered the starter till he got hurt.

 

And don't even need to bring up scheme, right?

[Est.1974]

Smart move. Exclusive tags tend to results in long term deals, think the stat is something like only 4 players have played a season under the exclusive tag. Encouraging news if some kind of resolution is nearer to a degree. Odds heavily in favour of him staying.

 

The use of the exclusive tag implies to me there was or is external interest for Kirk from multiple teams, teams who are willing to pay him and compensate us 2 first rounders. The EFT takes away that risk for our FO. Wouldnt rule out some form of strong trade rumor for a team offering more than 2 first rounders. Not saying we will take it, just my view on why we used the EFT.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

2 hours ago, srtman04 said:

Yeah they are becoming "Fake News" too....or they are just being exposed for the Fraud that they are.  Very ****ty journalism.....

I doubt they made it up. More likely that they were floated some info by a credible source but that the info was B.S. / a negotiating device more than it was actual news.