The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[Bang]

McCartney's comments are nice to hear, hope it's all true.

Now, Pierre, or Jackson gets an offer?

 

~Bang

[Wyvern]

Question:  if you were a QB entering your prime years, would you want a long-term deal in Cleveland?

 

Would you rather have 6 games on the west Coast vs the Rams, Sea-Hawks, and Cardinals, or 6 games vs Steelers, Bengals, and Rat-birds?  Don't forget, lots of these games will be in December!

[Jumbo]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As to Mike Jones for what its worth on that point of signing him or not back in 2015.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/02/28/whos-accountable-for-the-kirk-cousins-situation-plus-more-qb-questions-for-redskins/?utm_term=.7cf96bd00c1a

 

It’s kind of a collective thing. There were differing opinions on Cousins’s ability and differing opinions on how to handle his contract situation.

People familiar with the internal deliberations at the time say Jay Gruden and offensive coordinator Sean McVay were both sold on Cousins with the 2015 season still in progress, that Scot McCloughan liked him at the right price, and that Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder were still deciding. Some among the Redskins’ decision-making ranks would have preferred to sign him to a contract extension during the 2015 season rather than wait until the offseason. Others preferred to wait.

 

That was my take from way back (as I posted) and it remained pretty much unchanging, other than Scot moving more toward "all-in" as time went on...not saying Scot has achieved "I guarantee Kirk is Drew Brees Deux" escape velocity, but I suggest he's as there on Kirk as he should be---which is wanting a LTD----given the entire context of the situation.

[PigskinRedskin]

6 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

That was my take from way back (as I posted) and it remained pretty much unchanging, other than Scot moving more toward "all-in" as time went on...not saying Scot has achieved "I guarantee Kirk is Drew Brees Deux" escape velocity, but I suggest he's as there on Kirk as he should be---which is wanting a LTD----given the entire context of the situation.

 

Yeah, I think an LTD is in the future. Kirk's agent probably made it known that they wanted the tag before a deal cause worse case scenario for them, he plays for $24 million and then hits FA, or gets a CRAZY tag next season. This way, they both can sit comfortably and talk it out to finalize the numbers.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

That was my take from way back (as I posted) and it remained pretty much unchanging, other than Scot moving more toward "all-in" as time went on...not saying Scot has achieved "I guarantee Kirk is Drew Brees Deux" escape velocity, but I suggest he's as there on Kirk as he should be---which is wanting a LTD----given the entire context of the situation.

 

Makes sense based on things they've said or been said about them.  Jay being the strongest voice in the room pushing for Kirk to be signed has been consistently suggested by beat reporters.    Bruce has the reputation of being frugal and he's the money guy along with Schaffer.  So why wouldn't the money guy be front and center in the negotiations.    Plus, McCartney mentioned talks happening with Schaffer not McCloughan

 

As for Scot, seems like many people want to make him the guy who is roadblocking the deal -- but he's not the contract guy and generally he likes to support Jay where he can.   So tough for me to see him both stepping out of his lane by involving himself on the money side and also go against Jay on this.  Yeah I can see it go the way you described where Scot moved in this direction and not being as hardcore about Kirk as Jay was -- considering Scot has spoken about not overpaying for a contract that ultimately will hurt their ability to secure multiple players to build a team.   

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2629584-scot-mccloughan-qa-the-philosophy-and-tools-of-a-successful-nfl-gm

But we've seen Scot say things that clearly indicate that you need a QB to win in this league

 

B/R: Absolutely, but in the postseason, it becomes about defense.

SM: Right, but you have to get there first. It's set up for us. It's like in baseball, everybody wants to see the home run. In football, everybody wants to see the touchdown. ... Yeah, it's a good problem to have if you have a great defense and you have to pay people. But you'll take a quarterback over three defensive players. That's just the way it is. No doubt about it.

B/R: It's like when I hear people say, "Oh, you should just build through defense." That’s a good theory, but that means you eventually have to pay five or six guys a lot of money and then you have to be lucky with injuries. If you have a great quarterback, it gives you a chance to be great for 10 or 12 years.

SM: The thing about nowadays—and you're completely right—but the thing about nowadays is the way the season is set up and the way the game is set up, it's about scoring points.

[carex]

for people wondering why Cousins one good season wasn't enough, just look at RG3 and I'd like to remind people that back in the 90s Gus Frerotte made a Pro Bowl himself

[Momma There Goes That Man]

1 minute ago, carex said:

for people wondering why Cousins one good season wasn't enough, just look at RG3 and I'd like to remind people that back in the 90s Gus Frerotte made a Pro Bowl himself

 

That argument doesn't work. Surely the football brain trust we have in our FO can discern the difference in a smoke and mirrors season like 2012 and Kirk actually playing the QB position at a high level from the pocket. Completely different. You can see that one is legit and sustainable and one is not 

[SkinsGuy]

1 minute ago, carex said:

for people wondering why Cousins one good season wasn't enough, just look at RG3 and I'd like to remind people that back in the 90s Gus Frerotte made a Pro Bowl himself

 

Unfortunately, there is a lot of revisionist history going on in Redskin Nation tonight.

 

[carex]

Just now, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

That argument doesn't work. Surely the football brain trust we have in our FO can discern the difference in a smoke and mirrors season like 2012 and Kirk actually playing the QB position at a high level from the pocket. Completely different. You can see that one is legit and sustainable and one is not 

 

the entire league's football braintrust named him RoTY.  And I still feel RG3 has been victimized  by injury more than lack of ability

[Stadium-Armory]

I'm fine making a bet on Cousins. Go all in and build around him. What else option is there?

 

Four years from now we won't even think twice about having given him the highest contract in NFL history because by that time he will be the 15th highest paid player in the league or lower. Don't fret about the optics of making him the highest paid guy. 

[Momma There Goes That Man]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

the entire league's football braintrust named him RoTY.  And I still feel RG3 has been victimized  by injury more than lack of ability

 

Because he had an amazing season and deserved it. But that's not the same as having actual and sustainable QB ability, i.e. Reading a defense, progressing thru WRs, working in the pocket etc. 

 

I'm sure people far smarter than me were able to see these things in 2012 and how different it was in 2015

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, Bang said:

McCartney's comments are nice to hear, hope it's all true.

Now, Pierre, or Jackson gets an offer?

 

~Bang

 

If you go by tone it was rainbows and sunshine coming out of McCartney about Kirk wanting to stay.  It was funny for me to hear because there is so much discussion about Kirk and his agent being these ruthless mercenaries who can't wait to sail their ship out of town.    Obviously McCartney-Kirk want their money and he made that clear but either the dude is a great actor (possible) or it came off almost heavy handed about wanting to work out a deal with the Redskins.  McCartney went to the well of Kirk wants to be a Redskins twice in that interview.    

 

For me that interview was the most positive vibe I have gotten yet about them getting a deal done.  Though my position is the same as its been for awhile -- they offer him a $24 million a year deal or thereabouts and they will lock him in and if they don't offer that to him, no deal.   Listening to Kirk's agent point of view it reaffirms also my take that its all on the FO (not Kirk or his agent) if a deal isn't done.    McCartney doesn't come off like he's being outrageous or looking for any excuse to ensure a LTD doesn't happen so they can ship out.  I basically took it as him saying -- you give us a fair market deal and we will take it and Kirk would be more than happy to stay. 

 

As Bruce said its not as complicated as some say it.  Hopefully he meant it.  

[Renegade7]

52 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

When your posts are filled with hyperbole and factually baseless remarks, it does appear that you hate the guy and have an agenda against him.  And, to your last sentence, I don't have to deal with anything.  I couldn't care less how you feel about the guy, but I will point out when you are posting things that just aren't true or have no evidence to back them up, which is common on a MB.  You are the one that is hypersensitive about the situation with Kirk; it appears you have a lot deal with.  Like @onedrop said earlier, let it go.  You'll feel much better.

Kirk threw a pick in the gaints game that ended and still hasn't won a playoff game.  I'll let it go eventually

[carex]

5 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

 

Because he had an amazing season and deserved it. But that's not the same as having actual and sustainable QB ability, i.e. Reading a defense, progressing thru WRs, working in the pocket etc. 

 

I'm sure people far smarter than me were able to see these things in 2012 and how different it was in 2015

 

he only had like 5 INTs that year, that takes some skill in reading a D

[TheShredder]

There's nothing wrong with cautious optimism.  Franchised him the first year on a prove it deal, very well knowing that as he'd perform well, then the price would go up.  That's not news to the Skins or anybody else.  Let's not forget that now, he's done it 2 years in a row...and he'll gladly do it again.  I think your in management to manage the big picture and they did the math on the prospect of being in this scenario.  The media isn't doing anything but report nothing!  They're making stories about 'What ifs' and scenarios.  The Skins knew the scenario and were decided to let him play for it.  He's going to get paid and he deserves it.  They'll be an issue solving the QB/WR issues as long as they've not struck a deal.  You're not going to lure a top WR unless they know KC is here for awhile.  Paramount for the Skins to get a LTD completed ASAP. 

[JMUSkins]

54 minutes ago, Bang said:

McCartney's comments are nice to hear, hope it's all true.

Now, Pierre, or Jackson gets an offer?

 

~Bang

I love Garcons heart, but we need someone who can take the lid off the secondary. Jackson has absolutely elite speed. Would hate to see him go... Especially back to Philthy.

[Conn]

Pretty easy to tell when someone isn't capable of digging beyond the surface level on a given topic, folks. Just ignore it.

[Momma There Goes That Man]

8 minutes ago, carex said:

 

he only had like 5 INTs that year, that takes some skill in reading a D

He severely struggles reading a defense. That's not disputable. The quality of his season is not a comparison to Kirks in QB ability so the situations would not have been the same toward the FO. 

 

Thats all I'm saying 

[PigskinRedskin]

13 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

For me that interview was the most positive vibe I have gotten yet about them getting a deal done.  Though my position is the same as its been for awhile -- they offer him a $24 million a year deal or thereabouts and they will lock him in and if they don't offer that to him, no deal.   Listening to Kirk's agent point of view it reaffirms also my take that its all on the FO (not Kirk or his agent) if a deal isn't done.    McCartney doesn't come off like he's being outrageous or looking for any excuse to ensure a LTD doesn't happen so they can ship out.  I basically took it as him saying -- you give us a fair market deal and we will take it and Kirk would be more than happy to stay. 

 

Hey, do you have a link to the interview? Sorry, didn't come across it.

[Conn]

11 minutes ago, carex said:

 

he only had like 5 INTs that year, that takes some skill in reading a D

 

Not really, what it takes is a great offensive design built from the read-option run game out to give him a ton of half field read-or-run situations, and tons of play action passes (which he was incredible at hitting on the move early on). 

 

I can't ****ing believe we're talking about RG3's ability to process what he's seeing from a defense in 2017. Where is the glacier they dug you out of and how did it feel to be thawed out? 

[Commander Adama]

I love this board!!! Some news outlet makes a hypothesis and for a large number of folks here, it has to be true. The pundits talking about the Redskins painted themselves into a corner, and now the Front Office is incompetent. What I have seen is a calm measured approach in handling Cousins. They talked about money last year but the Front Office wasn't ready to hand over the money that Cousins wanted, so they let him play on the Franchise tag. This year, they know they want him, so they put an Exclusive Franchise tag on him so they can negotiate a contract. Everything else seems to be hyperbole.

 

With Cousins back possibly Jackson and Garcon may be willing to come back. I like the Front Office's measured approach during the off-season and us as fans are not used to that. It doesn't help with pundits wildly speculating but that should be taken with a grain of salt. Well this is ExtremeSkins, make that a pound of salt.

[CommanderDOOM]

If I were KC now, why would I not ask for at least 25 per?......

 

after I say Redskins played the #1 hardest schedule of Ds last year, #2 hardest pass Ds, #1 hardest red zone Ds & #4 hardest pass rush Ds. Kirk Cousins and the Redskins faced SEVEN top-10 pass defenses last year. They went 5-2 in these games, including 3-1 on the road.

 

 

[rick7423]

46 minutes ago, carex said:

 

the entire league's football braintrust named him RoTY.  And I still feel RG3 has been victimized  by injury more than lack of ability

I cannot disagree more. RGII's first year was magical, almost historic. And I bought in hook line and sinker!

 

BUT, after the injuries, he just played scared. Once you show fear in this league, you are done. You cannot change that perception or get rid of that fear.

 

He was ill prepared for the NFL, never taught to protect himself, and his arrogance was his downfall.

 

KC was taught more of an NFL system and knows how to protect himself, he will last where RGIII cannot. A damn shame, I am still a HUGE RGIII fan, but his days int he NFL are over.

 

just glad this drama might soon be over and we get the LTD. As fans, we need to stability at this position once and for all.

[JMUSkins]

Just saw this little gem. If he keeps this up and gets some real W's, the $$ will be an afterthought. Pretty impressive so far.

 

[carex]

12 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

If I were KC now, why would I not ask for at least 25 per?

 

because I know the team is willing to write me a big ass check, but also needs a team around me.  And a LTD included a signing bonus which means that the base salary needs to go lower