Cliffmark1 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 2 hours ago, ddub52 said: I'm not even sure Cousins should be the starter. He audibles into pass plays too much and McCoy should have a chance to compete. Cousins is worth less than $20 mil a year. Were you on twitter calling for KC to go to the Browns to take RG3's job twice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 5 hours ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said: Jay's job depends on it. He doesn't' need to be going into year 4 starting over at QB regardless of how much he likes Kirk. Hail. Not busting on you, just using it in general: As I have said for two years going on three now, while they certainly are connected, Jay's job has never---nor is now---all that tied to kirk, though he gets special credit from the FO for seeing and committing to kirk as the smart move earliest in post-shanny times. After RG3's inability to recover (really, even before) the thought that all the QBs on the roster were temporary placeholders or maybe one might be a backup at best, was a serious fear. Kirk could have failed in either prior year and Jay would not have had his head on the block over it. And really, that should be the basic "common-sense" take and not require explaining. Everything anyone should need to know to figure that out is in the open. Now the years accruing on jay's contract and moving into this season will be something that causes all things to matter more in the team's looking down the road. Jay's in pretty good shape right now. But I live by the understanding that anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbias Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 31 minutes ago, Jumbo said: Not busting on you, just using it in general: As I have said for two years going on three now, while they certainly are connected, Jay's job has never---nor is now---all that tied to kirk, though he gets special credit from the FO for seeing and committing to kirk as the smart move earliest in post-shanny times. After RG3's inability to recover (really, even before) the thought that all the QBs on the roster were temporary placeholders or maybe one might be a backup at best, was a serious fear. Kirk could have failed in either prior year and Jay would not have had his head on the block over it. And really, that should be the basic "common-sense" take and not require explaining. Everything anyone should need to know to figure that out is in the open. Now the years accruing on jay's contract and moving into this season will be something that causes all things to matter more in the team's looking down the road. Jay's in pretty good shape right now. But I live by the understanding that anything can happen. I think it's more a comment on timing. This is year 4 for Jay as the HC. In his three seasons as the coach he went from rebuild (4-12) to the playoffs (9-7) to a slight regression (no playoffs, 8-7-1). There are many moving pieces, but if the team regresses to let's say 7 wins or less then it might be time to look in a different direction. Where the two get somewhat linked is that the QB is the most important position on the field. I think Allen/Snyder are somewhat lining up Kirk's big contract to Jay's potential extension. If both Kirk and Jay do well this season, then look to extend both. If Kirk plays bad and the team regresses, then fire everyone and give the new coach the the cap space to pick his own QB. It's sad to think that the current coaching staff and players are plan A, but plan B is also being accounted for. Either way I think Jay and Kirk are in very similar spots. This year will be huge for their job security. The only problem is if Kirk does exactly what he did last 1.7 seasons then we'll keep looking to previous negotiations thinking we could have had him for less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 Regardless of whether Kirk is here or not; the team expect improvement in 2017 over 2016. If we swing a deal with San Fran; there must be someone Scot really wants in the draft. I would expect him to also sign someone else, to fill in at QB; until we can draft the franchise again. I think Gruden is in trouble if this team goes 6-10 or worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted March 1, 2017 Share Posted March 1, 2017 1 hour ago, Jumbo said: Not busting on you, just using it in general: As I have said for two years going on three now, while they certainly are connected, Jay's job has never---nor is now---all that tied to kirk, though he gets special credit from the FO for seeing and committing to kirk as the smart move earliest in post-shanny times. After RG3's inability to recover (really, even before) the thought that all the QBs on the roster were temporary placeholders or maybe one might be a backup at best, was a serious fear. Kirk could have failed in either prior year and Jay would not have had his head on the block over it. And really, that should be the basic "common-sense" take and not require explaining. Everything anyone should need to know to figure that out is in the open. Now the years accruing on jay's contract and moving into this season will be something that causes all things to matter more in the team's looking down the road. Jay's in pretty good shape right now. But I live by the understanding that anything can happen. I think you misunderstood me J. I wasn't in the slightest referring to the organisations standpoint on Kirk being tied to Jay. I don't think that's ever been open to discussion save for the fanatics that want to make a story out of nothing on either man. What I meant was he's in a crucial year for himself. Year 4 of a 5 year deal. And the best thing for him would be to roll with his QB that he's worked with right through and knows exactly what's expected. As opposed to going into this year with say a rookie. Or a FA vet. brought in who's coming in cold to Jay and how he runs the culture of this ship and whats he expects from you/ his scheme etc. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I find it interesting that there are now Hot Take articles taking the Redskins' side (well, as much as the media is possible of doing lol), when over the last few weeks the Hot Take articles were almost 100% negative against the Skins' front office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jumbo Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 @Gibbs Hog Heaven I did read it as a more direct link to Kirk and I get you're saying now it's more like my comment of it just being an important year for jay, period, and so everything will presumably matter just a bit more. I don't think I need to add anything to my original post to serve in response to unbias. It's been a deal with me for the last few years to lay some smackdown on the theme of jay & kirk having their fates here be so inexorably intertwined. I don't bother unpacking it all anymore having done it a few times in the past, but as with some other matters, everything one needs to figure out why they're not is openly available. But that's now more interest in that angle than I had ready For the second year in a row <gasp> I can't wait for next season due to optimistic excitement, amigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 19 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I find it interesting that there are now Hot Take articles taking the Redskins' side (well, as much as the media is possible of doing lol), when over the last few weeks the Hot Take articles were almost 100% negative against the Skins' front office. With track record the Skin's have had under Snyder why should they be given the benefit of the doubt? McCartney's public statements have been very reassuring and have gotten me to climb off the ledge but prior to that I had no faith whatsoever this was heading to a logical conclusion and I don't fault the media people feeling the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade7 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 22 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: Pretty easy to tell when someone isn't capable of digging beyond the surface level on a given topic, folks. Just ignore it. Bless your heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 17 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: With track record the Skin's have had under Snyder why should they be given the benefit of the doubt? Because they've had 2 winning seasons in a row, the team President is a good negotiator who doesn't over pay free agents, the GM has a proven track record of success, and the head coach produces an elite offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, elkabong82 said: Because they've had 2 winning seasons in a row, the team President is a good negotiator who doesn't over pay free agents, the GM has a proven track record of success, and the head coach produces an elite offense. It takes takes more than 2 years besides that, 8-7 is the "winning season" equivalent of kissing your sister. It's a real stretch to feel good about 8 wins as a "winning season" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 44 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said: With track record the Skin's have had under Snyder why should they be given the benefit of the doubt? McCartney's public statements have been very reassuring and have gotten me to climb off the ledge but prior to that I had no faith whatsoever this was heading to a logical conclusion and I don't fault the media people feeling the same way. To me, all the logic pointed to exactly where we are now. And it had nothing at all to do with Snyder's history or me not giving him the benefit of the doubt. My main point, though, was that sports media is 95% "hot takes"--which requires zero actual facts or sources, just a loud voice and a wet finger--but fans often treat it as if sports media is 95% insider facts and well thought-out analysis. 23 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: It takes takes more than 2 years besides that, 8-7 is the "winning season" equivalent of kissing your sister. It's a real stretch to feel good about 8 wins as a "winning season" I'm not a fan of sports media using "Because Snyder" as validation for every splotch of mud they fling against the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 3 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I'm not a fan of sports media using "Because Snyder" as vallidation for every splotch of mud they fling against the wall. Im not either, I've defended the man more times than not. The dysfunction and reputation of embarrassment that is stuck to this franchise is far more than Snyder and will take more than a 9-7, 8-7-1 combo to break, was all I meant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elkabong82 Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 1 minute ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: It takes takes more than 2 years besides that, 8-7 is the "winning season" equivalent of kissing your sister. It's a real stretch to feel good about 8 wins as a "winning season" So basically you didn't even read the post I responded to or try to gain context of what I was saying. You just saw me post we had 2 winning seasons in a row and you, being the avid Skins fan you are, felt compelled to diminish the accomplishment with a cliched metaphor and ignore the entirety of my response in the process. Not even sure it's worth responding to, but here goes: Califan: the hot takes now are in favor of Skins FO when before they were all calling dysfunction. Weird. Veryoldschool: Skins track record under Snyder means FO shouldn't get benefit of doubt Me: Skins FO is comprised of a fiscally conservative President, a GM with a proven track record, and a head coach who has put out an elite offense. Collectively they have back to back winning seasons. By pointing these things out, I am saying that the current FO should get some benefit of the doubt. You: OMG, 8-7-1 isn't that good of a winning season, nobody should ever use it as a positive. Hopefully this helps you see why my response is littered with an annoyed tone. If you have thoughts on the FO handling of the situation and whether or not the local media jackals are correct about dysfunction or not, please share since that would be relevant to the conversation. Otherwise there's really no need to reply back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, elkabong82 said: You: OMG, 8-7-1 isn't that good of a winning season, nobody should ever use it as a positive. lol funny guy here. Yeah I don't think the FO or team in general should get the benefit of the doubt despite the things you listed, after only 2 seasons of "turning it around" The most important reason to give them the benefit of the doubt would be team performance and that isn't so surefire and overwhelming regardless of your "back to back winning seasons" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 5 hours ago, ddub52 said: I'm not even sure Cousins should be the starter. He audibles into pass plays too much and McCoy should have a chance to compete. Cousins is worth less than $20 mil a year. I am sorry you were in a coma. Let me bring you up to speed here. There was a competition between the two and Kirk got the nod to start. He played so well that the FO decided to tag him last year to see if it was a fluke or not. He played like a top 10 tier QB would. He even almost had 5000 yards and stuff in year 2016. I think it was due to the fact that we really don't have a running game or a top tier running back like some teams do. Our defense sucked most of the year. 8 games come to mind or else we could have had a 16-0 season and a SB win. So, this year the FO decided to give Kirk an exclusive tag. I guess, Dan Snyder, they guy with the checkbook, thinks he is worth more. Hopefully a LTD will be done soon. If you missed anything else then you can catch up hitting the news section of ES which is still being religiously updated by Hap. By the way, welcome back! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momma There Goes That Man Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 18 minutes ago, zskins said: By the way, welcome back! Somebody should also tell him that the Earth actually revolves around the sun and that he doesn't have to walk with his knuckles dragging on the ground anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCalMike Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I think what some people have to be at peace with is that it is quite possible that neither side does anything "wrong" in this situation, and Kirk ends up somewhere else regardless. This is pro sports where business comes before the game 90% of the time, especially when a player is primed to get their first big long term contract (potentially). If a player is in demand for enough teams, they ultimately hold the cards to their future, maybe not the immediate future, but long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morneblade Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 16 hours ago, Veryoldschool said: With track record the Skin's have had under Snyder why should they be given the benefit of the doubt? McCartney's public statements have been very reassuring and have gotten me to climb off the ledge but prior to that I had no faith whatsoever this was heading to a logical conclusion and I don't fault the media people feeling the same way. Um, completely different FO, filled with guys that are not his racketball buddies and are actually sucessful NFL execs? The media has been acting like 4 year old brats that aren't getting leaks and can't stand the fact we have a FO that functions well. but then, so has 50% of ES, so I guess it's par for the course. The media have been pathetic about this. It's as if they are trying to create problems where non exist. 14 hours ago, NoCalMike said: I think what some people have to be at peace with is that it is quite possible that neither side does anything "wrong" in this situation, and Kirk ends up somewhere else regardless. This is pro sports where business comes before the game 90% of the time, especially when a player is primed to get their first big long term contract (potentially). If a player is in demand for enough teams, they ultimately hold the cards to their future, maybe not the immediate future, but long term. Very low probably of this happening. Very likely a LTD gets done before the Draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsGuy Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 6 hours ago, DM72 said: Rikki Tikki Tavi makes it onto ES. Yeah, gifs are nice, but it doesn't do the cartoon justice because you miss out of the narration of the great Orson Welles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Stupid Loser Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 59 minutes ago, Momma There Goes That Man said: Somebody should also tell him that the Earth actually revolves around the sun and that he doesn't have to walk with his knuckles dragging on the ground anymore Blasphemy!!!! You some kind of new ager or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I don't think Kirk is a top tier qb. I don't know if he will ever be one - though I certainanly don't have a reason to think he can't just yet, either. I don't know what the other option is, and the worst place to be in a negotiation is with only one option. Yet Kirk has 20-25 other options, and will every year so long as he doesn't regress (looking at next off-season, if we must.) There's rarely more than 6 or so teams with qbs they'd never bother upgrading if the option presented itself. I don't think the situation makes it easier to sign other fa's either... I honestly don't even know if he wants to be here. Given everything that's happened since he got here, and how this organization has behaved during that time, I wouldn't want to be here either. So long as he doest regress and stays healthy he gets big checks and can leave eventually. I hate the position the team is in, but we also did it to ourselves. Give up and get a new qb, or sign him to a contract you can't get out of and hope you're not being fooled. I cant even tell who's making the decisions anymore. I'm almost at a point where I have no respect for this organization and the way it does business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 7 minutes ago, tshile said: I don't think Kirk is a top tier qb. I don't know if he will ever be one - though I certainanly don't have a reason to think he can't just yet, either. I don't know what the other option is, and the worst place to be in a negotiation is with only one option. Yet Kirk has 20-25 other options, and will every year so long as he doesn't regress (looking at next off-season, if we must.) There's rarely more than 6 or so teams with qbs they'd never bother upgrading if the option presented itself. I don't think the situation makes it easier to sign other fa's either... I honestly don't even know if he wants to be here. Given everything that's happened since he got here, and how this organization has behaved during that time, I wouldn't want to be here either. So long as he doest regress and stays healthy he gets big checks and can leave eventually. I hate the position the team is in, but we also did it to ourselves. Give up and get a new qb, or sign him to a contract you can't get out of and hope you're not being fooled. I cant even tell who's making the decisions anymore. I'm almost at a point where I have no respect for this organization and the way it does business. Everything you have said has been discussed to the point it is like All you have to do is go back at least 10 pages. You will become more informed with facts like Kirk wants to be here (the crazy thing is he actually said that on live radio and then it was printed so one can even read about it), how we can still sign FA, how Kirk is in the top 10 with actual data, etc. It is okay to read more and post less. I think the mods here (they are great bunch of people you know) love that instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tshile Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Go on, tell me about this actual data. Also you missed the point on fa's but that's unsurprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 2 minutes ago, tshile said: Go on, tell me about this actual data. Also you missed the point on fa's but that's unsurprising. You are more than welcome to go back and look it up yourself. I am not going to do the homework for you. I don't think I missed the point on the FA. Maybe you don't think we can sign/get FA because we are going to pay Kirk a lot of money. What FA is out there you would really like to get? We still have a lot of money even after paying Kirk. Again this has been discussed in the last 10 pages as well. I personally don't care how the money is handled. That is why they hired Bruce Allen, you know the money guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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