The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[PigskinRedskin]

39 minutes ago, Wildbunny said:

Take away the last three and his numbers are quite good.

 

Also, take away every INT and he hasn't thrown an INT in his career!

[clskinsfan]

5 hours ago, Destino said:

His propensity to shatter passing records and finish in the top 10 of QBs statistically continues as well.  You write as if the last two season were average or bad, instead of what they actually were.  Damn good.  If this team had a defense half as good as its passing offense we'd be talking about what we need to add to make a run.  Instead we're complaining that the best QB this team has seen in decades isn't the best at everything.   

 

 

 

Fair enough. But I did say he is better in my post. He is also ranked 32nd in the league in redzone passing. And cost us the playoffs last year with stupid mistakes. I am fine with signing Kirk long term because he is clearly the best QB this team has had in decades. My issue was with the "second year" thing. That is simply not true.

[LaxBuddy21]

10 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

 

To be fair, he shattered passing records for a team that horribly mediocre passing records. He's not a bad player, I actually think he's a good player but he's ridiculously overrated by this fanbase due to how awful we've been at the position. I am at a point though where just pay the guy and let's get this done with. I'm so tired of hearing about it. And if you have no intentions of paying him, deal him away. 

To be fair, he would have broke yards record most teams this season. 

[Taylor703]

7 minutes ago, LaxBuddy21 said:

To be fair, he would have broke yards record most teams this season. 

 

Thats true. It still doesn't refute what I said though. And it's not like I even said anything negative about him. The Redskins team passing records were horribly mediocre. 

[zCommander]

9 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Fair enough. But I did say he is better in my post. He is also ranked 32nd in the league in redzone passing. And cost us the playoffs last year with stupid mistakes. I am fine with signing Kirk long term because he is clearly the best QB this team has had in decades. My issue was with the "second year" thing. That is simply not true.

 

What can boggle one's mind is that before the 20 yard line Kirk is good. Moving the chains and stuff. Then all of a sudden inside the RZ he is below avg. He was not bad in 2015 but why in 2016. Was it McVey not calling the right plays or having Kirk play ultra conservative so not to have the ball turned over either by Kirk or another player? Also the running game was missing a lot in the RZ as well. Throwing those damn fades didn't help in that matter as well. Maybe the solution to the RZ is just having a powerful RB and a Doctson.

 

What would be interesting to see/compare what Kirk does in year 2017 without McVey. Can't wait.

[onedrop]

12 minutes ago, Taylor703 said:

 

Thats true. It still doesn't refute what I said though. And it's not like I even said anything negative about him. The Redskins team passing records were horribly mediocre. 

So he's overrated for breaking unimpressive team records but when presented with  "he would have broke yards record most teams this season." you agree, yet cling to "overrated" even though you just agreed to the opposite and then deflect with the whole I'm still right about the team records sucking.....??

 

Sorry, that's called refuted.  

[Peregrine]

11 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

What can boggle one's mind is that before the 20 yard line Kirk is good. Moving the chains and stuff. Then all of a sudden inside the RZ he is below avg. He was not bad in 2015 but why in 2016. Was it McVey not calling the right plays or having Kirk play ultra conservative so not to have the ball turned over either by Kirk or another player? Also the running game was missing a lot in the RZ as well. Throwing those damn fades didn't help in that matter as well. Maybe the solution to the RZ is just having a powerful RB and a Doctson.

 

What would be interesting to see/compare what Kirk does in year 2017 without McVey. Can't wait.

I think playcalling was a big part, but I almost think the lack of running the ball down there was the biggest factor in the RZ struggles.  Teams didnt respect it, and that meant they were able to consistently drop 7 without a second thought, and just clog up the entire endzone.  I think the RZ is the #1 place you need to run the ball to be effective as a team.  Its far more important than the middle of the field because in the middle of the field the passing game has no restrictions.

[Wildbunny]

39 minutes ago, PigskinRedskin said:

 

Also, take away every INT and he hasn't thrown an INT in his career!

Absolutely true as Manning is a TO machine if you put all his TD asides.

[Taylor703]

13 minutes ago, onedrop said:

So he's overrated for breaking unimpressive team records but when presented with  "he would have broke yards record most teams this season." you agree, yet cling to "overrated" even though you just agreed to the opposite and then deflect with the whole I'm still right about the team records sucking.....??

 

Sorry, that's called refuted.  

 

How was I refuted? He threw for a bunch of yards because all we did was throw the ball. He also had the lowest TD passes produced for someone throwing for that many yards. So yes, I do believe this fanbase overrates him considerably. I also said he was a good player and yet you still got upset over it which proves my point about just how ridiculous this fanbase is over Kirk. 

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I honestly don't even understand why we are having the over-rated/under-rated discussion at this point. It doesn't matter. We're in binary choice territory.

 

1. Pay him more money than any QB has ever been paid.

2. Let him go for 50 cents on the dollar this year or for nothing next year.

[Veryoldschool]

13 hours ago, clskinsfan said:

 

Come on Elkabong. You consistently do this "first two years thing". Cousins played plenty his first three years. And was awful. He has obviously progressed from there and is better. But his red zone numbers and his propensity to make bone headed mistakes still exists after FIVE years in the league. It appears it is most likely a moot point as a long term deal is near. But Cousins is not a second year player.

 

 

Your man RGIII will be on a roster somewhere in the NFL or CFL someplace in the league so be of good cheer.

 

Obviously, your animus towards Cousins robs you of your sense of perspective.  If Griffin had been able to run a real NFL offense and been 75% as productive as Kirk you'd be signing his praises.  Unfortunately your guy has been a total bust and your shattered hope has soured into a blind disdain for Cousins.  Thankfully for the rest of us and two coaching regimes believed in his talent and developed it to the extent they where allowed to during his first three years before insisting to the ownership that Kirk is the future.  Now management agrees and they are working on the details of his franchise QB contract.  Get over it.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Cooley and Sheehan keep saying Cousins has "more power than any player in the history of the NFL"...

 

What's the power that Cousins has that no other player has ever had?

[rick7423]

Just now, Califan007 said:

Cooley and Sheehan keep saying Cousins has "more power than any player in the history of the NFL"...

 

What's the power that Cousins has that no other player has ever had?

 

Essentially, being at the right place, at the right time, and having put up good enough stats, with the impression of increased potential, in a QB starved league, nothing in the draft even close, and a few other teams would scoop him up if let go.

 

Yea, he has all the leverage.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

Cooley and Sheehan keep saying Cousins has "more power than any player in the history of the NFL"...

 

What's the power that Cousins has that no other player has ever had?

 

He does.

 

He is in position where all he needs to do is not suffering a career-ending injury this season, and he can:

 

1. Be the first All-Proi-sh level quarterback to be a free agent in his prime ever, and

2. Make - at worst - approximately $85 million in guaranteed money over 3 years, a figure that as far as I can tell no NFL player has ever approached.

3. Moreover, the Skins have absolutely no ability to trade him without his complete cooperation. All they can trade is the one-year $25+ million deal he has. If they wanted to make a trade to San Francisco for example, Kirk has to essentially negotiate a long term deal with San Francisco first. Otherwise, San Francisco is trading for nothing.

 

Unless the Skins make him the highest paid QB in NFL history, he really has no incentive at all to sign a contract right now. He's already sitting on $50 million in guaranteed money before the Skins and his agent have the first conversation.

[Tay]

1 minute ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

He does.

 

He is in position where all he needs to do is not suffering a career-ending injury this season, and he can:

 

1. Be the first All-Proi-sh level quarterback to be a free agent in his prime ever, and

2. Make - at worst - approximately $85 million in guaranteed money over 3 years, a figure that as far as I can tell no NFL player has ever approached.

3. Moreover, the Skins have absolutely no ability to trade him without his complete cooperation. All they can trade is the one-year $25+ million deal he has. If they wanted to make a trade to San Francisco for example, Kirk has to essentially negotiate a long term deal with San Francisco first. Otherwise, San Francisco is trading for nothing.

 

Unless the Skins make him the highest paid QB in NFL history, he really has no incentive at all to sign a contract right now. He's already sitting on $50 million in guaranteed money before the Skins and his agent have the first conversation.

 

This isn't really a unique situation. The Saints and Drew Brees were in the exact same situation, where he was on his 2nd Franchise Tag and they were negotiating a long term deal. He ended up with a standard franchise QB contract. Average Annual Value equal to about 14.5% of that years cap.

 

This isn't unprecedented, and I would say Brees had a little more leverage than Cousin's considering their level of play at the time of the negotiations.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 minutes ago, rick7423 said:

 

Essentially, being at the right place, at the right time, and having put up good enough stats, with the impression of increased potential, in a QB starved league, nothing in the draft even close, and a few other teams would scoop him up if let go.

 

Yea, he has all the leverage.

 

9 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

He does.

 

He is in position where all he needs to do is not suffering a career-ending injury this season, and he can:

 

1. Be the first All-Proi-sh level quarterback to be a free agent in his prime ever, and

2. Make - at worst - approximately $85 million in guaranteed money over 3 years, a figure that as far as I can tell no NFL player has ever approached.

3. Moreover, the Skins have absolutely no ability to trade him without his complete cooperation. All they can trade is the one-year $25+ million deal he has. If they wanted to make a trade to San Francisco for example, Kirk has to essentially negotiate a long term deal with San Francisco first. Otherwise, San Francisco is trading for nothing.

 

Unless the Skins make him the highest paid QB in NFL history, he really has no incentive at all to sign a contract right now. He's already sitting on $50 million in guaranteed money before the Skins and his agent have the first conversation.

 

 

You guys aren't describing "power"...you're describing "circumstances".

 

Name one thing that Cousins can do that no other player in the history of the NFL was able to do.

[rick7423]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

 

You guys aren't describing "power"...you're describing "circumstances".

 

Name one thing that Cousins can do that no other player in the history of the NFL was able to do.

 

I see what you are saying, but I think it can be categorized as "power" as well.

 

power is defined as " The capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events", which KC is definitely doing.

 

Also, so many others futures lie in what happens with him: Gruden, SM, Pierre, DeSean, the ability to sign quality WR's, et al

 

So much hinges on having a stable entity at the QB position and this situation is unique in the NFL on so many levels.

[Taylor703]

20 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

 

Your man RGIII will be on a roster somewhere in the NFL or CFL someplace in the league so be of good cheer.

 

Obviously, your animus towards Cousins robs you of your sense of perspective.  If Griffin had been able to run a real NFL offense and been 75% as productive as Kirk you'd be signing his praises.  Unfortunately your guy has been a total bust and your shattered hope has soured into a blind disdain for Cousins.  Thankfully for the rest of us and two coaching regimes believed in his talent and developed it to the extent they where allowed to during his first three years before insisting to the ownership that Kirk is the future.  Now management agrees and they are working on the details of his franchise QB contract.  Get over it.

 

Yeah, you're barking up the wrong tree. CL wasn't an Griffin guy at all. He and I had many a argument about that so I can certainly attest to it. 

 

It's odd honestly, you've basically been allowed to run around being a smartass to everyone who has a different view point but whatever. 

[Reaper Skins]

6 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Name one thing that Cousins can do that no other player in the history of the NFL was able to do.

Write a hit song about Captain Jack Sparrow?

 

[MassSkinsFan]

1 hour ago, Peregrine said:

I think playcalling was a big part, but I almost think the lack of running the ball down there was the biggest factor in the RZ struggles.  Teams didnt respect it, and that meant they were able to consistently drop 7 without a second thought, and just clog up the entire endzone.  I think the RZ is the #1 place you need to run the ball to be effective as a team.  Its far more important than the middle of the field because in the middle of the field the passing game has no restrictions.

 

This is the gospel!!! 

 

If we make one or two changes on the OL to upgrade our run blocking, suddenly the RZ problems will go away. The RZ problem is not just a Kirk Cousins problem - it's an Offense problem.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, rick7423 said:

 

I see what you are saying, but I think it can be categorized as "power" as well.

 

power is defined as " The capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events", which KC is definitely doing.

 

Also, so many others futures lie in what happens with him: Gruden, SM, Pierre, DeSean, the ability to sign quality WR's, et al

 

So much hinges on having a stable entity at the QB position and this situation is unique in the NFL on so many levels.

 

The thing about it, though, is that it still doesn't actually fit that definition of "power". Or at least not on a level no other player in the history of the NFL has ever had.

 

For example, I would guess that Peyton Manning had a ****load more influence over the Colts throughout most of his career than Cousins has right now. He didn't even need to be in a contract year to have that influence, that's how much power he had.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

9 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

 

You guys aren't describing "power"...you're describing "circumstances".

 

Name one thing that Cousins can do that no other player in the history of the NFL was able to do.

 

In this moment, he is the most powerful player in NFL history.

 

He didn't do that through any master plan. It happened through complete incompetence on the side of the Skins. (And the position he plays. A running back or guard is never going to be able to do this).

 

Basically, the Skins have repeatedly bet against their starting quarterback. And that has led to a circumstance where Cousins is in a position to make Andrew Luck look like a pauper.

 

If I'm Cousins, I bet on myself once and made $50 million. That's in the bank. All I have to do is bet on myself one more time, and I can name my team and my price for the rest of my career.

 

[markmills67]

9 minutes ago, rick7423 said:

 

I see what you are saying, but I think it can be categorized as "power" as well.

 

power is defined as " The capacity or ability to direct or influence the behavior of others or the course of events", which KC is definitely doing.

 

Also, so many others futures lie in what happens with him: Gruden, SM, Pierre, DeSean, the ability to sign quality WR's, et al

 

So much hinges on having a stable entity at the QB position and this situation is unique in the NFL on so many levels.

Great post, that's why I am hoping we can get Cousins to sign a LTD in the next couple of days then we know where we stand going into FA. 

 

 

HTTR 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

9 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

In this moment, he is the most powerful player in NFL history.

 

 

What's the power, though?

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

3 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

The thing about it, though, is that it still doesn't actually fit that definition of "power". Or at least not on a level no other player in the history of the NFL has ever had.

 

For example, I would guess that Peyton Manning had a ****load more influence over the Colts throughout most of his career than Cousins has right now. He didn't even need to be in a contract year to have that influence, that's how much power he had.

 

I honestly don't think Manning ever had this much power in a contract negotiation, because the franchise tag in his case would have actually been LESS than his true value. That's one of the key factors here.

 

Manning in his prime at the average of the top five salaries at his position would have actually been a bargain for the team in some respects while leaving Manning with no security. The Skins screwed the pooch last year because the franchise tag was probably around TWICE what Cousins would have been worth on the open market at that point. This year, it's closer to reality, but is still probably above market value. They've basically given Cousins 4 years worth of money in two years, leaving him in a position to hold them over a barrel for a record-setting deal.