The (only!) official ES all things Kirk Cousins should we shouldn't we off-season thread.

[DM72]

Now I wonder how the media will spin that.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

You're rehashing like, level 1 conversation on this from 16 months ago. What is this bringing to the discussion? Reads like a Bleacher Report comment from a random observer in November 2015. We're way past this.

You know what, that's what's on my mind, and I don't care when it was talked about. 

[MartinC]

22 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

They haven't negotiated, unless it was recent, since around this time last year, between February and July or so. Nobody has a clue what our "new" offers are or will be looking like. 

 

 

[Jumbo]

critical piece--post tag

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/this-is-how-badly-the-washington-redskins-have-financially-botched-things-with-kirk-cousins-010853506.html

 

 

Quote

 

INDIANAPOLIS – If the journey to the next Kirk Cousins contract were a car ride, the Washington Redskins would have sideswiped every parked vehicle on the street by now.

And there’s little doubt about how they got here. The Redskins have internal problems. Again. They have Bruce Allen problems. They have Daniel Snyder problems. They even have Scot McCloughan problems, which is a pity, because he has already infused that team with solid young talent since arriving as the team’s general manager.

Before diving into the civil strife, let’s absorb the logistics of finance that are in play now for Cousins. On Tuesday, he received a franchise tag that will amount to a one-year deal for $23.94 million in 2017. This means Cousins will be on the books in Washington for a two-season total of $43.89 million in guaranteed money.

After following this situation for the last year and speaking with multiple sources familiar with the negotiations, this much is unequivocal: If Washington had offered Cousins a multiyear deal last offseason that included $44 million guaranteed and base salaries of $20 million, he would have taken it. Anyone who says otherwise (on either side of this negotiation) is either lying or trying to rewrite history with alternative facts.

Without a shred of doubt, Cousins would be under a multiyear deal now, with the bulk of his guaranteed money set to expire after the 2017 season, given that the Redskins could have done the deal in a manner to take the same financial gut-punch that they’re already sustaining.That must look enticing to the Redskins’ brass now, given what its reticence (and ultimately, its blunder) has resulted in. Unless the Redskins secretly believe Cousins is a total phony as a quarterback – or even a mid-level phony – he is wielding an absolute axe right now. The Redskins have nothing in negotiations. They are naked. And someone is responsible for that.Here’s the bind they’re in:

• Tag Cousins and trade him – a move that will draw far less of a draft pick or player compensation now than ever because NFL teams can see the flames lapping against the windows of the negotiation room.

• Cousins plays out the season at a similar pace of the last two seasons. The option here is the Redskins let him go after 2017, blowing through $43.89 million and having no long-term answer to show for it. Or Washington can franchise tag him for a third season at a clip of $34.47 million for 2018. After that? They’d have sunk $78.36 million into Cousins for three seasons – significantly more guaranteed money than any player has ever made over a three-season span. And they’d be forced to let him go to free agency, having nothing to show for one of the biggest financial negotiation blunders in NFL history.

• The Redskins can transition tag him ($28.78 million) in 2018, paying out $72.67 million over three years – still more than any player has ever earned in three years. But under the transition tag in 2018, Cousins would have the right to negotiate with other clubs. And if the Redskins matched, they’d be on the hook for a brand-spanking new deal likely to come with at least $50 million in guaranteed money. And with the salary cap climbing, that $50 million guaranteed figure in 2018 is very conservative.

This means Washington pays out $43.89 million for 2016 and 2017 and then, if its hand is forced, matches a transition offer sheet that delivers potentially another $50 million in guaranteed money, most of which will likely be paid in the first two years of the deal. That would put Cousins at likely more than $93.89 million in guaranteed money for four years of work.To put that digit in perspective, the New Orleans Saints will have paid Drew Brees and his massive, mismanaged, back-end contract just over $71 million the last four years of his deal.

The Indianapolis Colts’ Andrew Luck just signed a deal that if it goes as planned, will pay out about $88 million in cash over the next four years. To recap: Brees, $71 million over four. Luck, $88 million over four. Cousins, $93 million (or more) over four.All for a guy Washington could have had under a six-year deal right now, if only it had seen this coming last offseason and made him a six-year offer with $44 million guaranteed.

Instead, the Redskins made a final offer that included $24 million in guaranteed money, which was laughable given that Cousins was about to earn $19.95 million of that just by showing up in 2016.

So who is responsible for this mess?

 

 

<the answer to that, and much more, is at the link!> 

 

[Renegade7]

1 minute ago, onedrop said:

the simple fact that you KEEP bringing it up proves that your anger over the incident clouds your current judgement. let it go...youll feel better if you do. 

Keep bringing it up?  This thread is over 200 pages, how often you see me in here pissed at anyone?  

[purbeast]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

You know what, that's what's on my mind, and I don't care when it was talked about. 

So if "he" lost the Giants game but Hopkins makes the FG against Cincy and the defense holds Detroit from scoring and we make the playoffs, you still would not want Kirk signed to a long term deal?

[Gizmo 3squire]

4 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Mike McCartney, Kirk's agent on Sirrius.  Highlights:

 

Kirk likes playing for the Redskins and said something to the effect of ideally he wants to stay there

Redskins sending a message by giving him the exclusive tag -- shows they think he's a franchise guy

The 24 million tag sets his value

He has had exchanges with the Redskins, negotiations have been going on back and forth and its been positive

He is going to meet with Eric Schaffer this week to talk some more

He was asked if they are thinking about trade -- he said not at all, and ditto when he and Kirk talk, being traded not part of conversation

 

Edit:  I see Tandler's post above about talking to Schaffer next week, thought he said this week but maybe misheard it

 

 

Let's get this done so we can all relax and have a beer.lolol Glad they hit that Exclusive Tag, which means negotiations are in the positive.

[onedrop]

2 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Keep bringing it up?  This thread is over 200 pages, how often you see me in here pissed at anyone?  

at Cousins....pretty much whenever hes discussed. 

[purbeast]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Mike McCartney, Kirk's agent on Sirrius.  Highlights:

 

Kirk likes playing for the Redskins and said something to the effect of ideally he wants to stay there

Redskins sending a message by giving him the exclusive tag -- shows they think he's a franchise guy

The 24 million tag sets his value

He has had exchanges with the Redskins, negotiations have been going on back and forth and its been positive

He is going to meet with Eric Schaffer this week to talk some more

He was asked if they are thinking about trade -- he said not at all, and ditto when he and Kirk talk, being traded not part of conversation

 

Edit:  I see Tandler's post above about talking to Schaffer next week, thought he said this week but maybe misheard it

 

This is great news.  I bet a lot of people will not like this news because it's positive and comes from a real source, and that's just not what people in the DC area want to hear.

[Renegade7]

8 minutes ago, skinfan2k said:

 

 

Sorry.  It's supply and demand.  He is getting paid for what he will do.  Not for what he has done.  People dont get it. 

 

I don't think he care about being a redskins based on interviews and actions, and believe he's jus doing what he's can to get as much coin a possible.  This stopped being about market value after his interview around the pro bowl for me.  I don't feel any loyalty the man anymore, He!s showed his true colors to me, and not going to apologize for that opinion.

2 minutes ago, onedrop said:

at Cousins....pretty much whenever hes discussed. 

That is not true.  I've been nervous, now I'm upset

[Gizmo 3squire]

My hypothesis is that they work out a deal before the July deadline.

 

ES and Redskins haters overreact that he's overpaid

 

We move on

 

We win the division next year and at least make it to the divisionals w/ one playoff win.

 

Gruden gets an extension

 

LTD seems like a bargain next season

 

 

[bobandweave]

18 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

He's not the best qb, don't like paying him like one after the gaints game and what flacco did to baltimore

 

No doubt but we have to accept our thinking from previous years does not apply this season in terms of contracts.

 

Heard today on the NFL channel that a marginal WR3 Kenny Stills is looking at 12 million a season. Is he worth that? Not at all but when half of the league has at least 30 million in space contracts are going to be insane compared to other seasons. Alshon Jeffrey the highest paid receiver in the game today? Could happen that's the NFL today. Used to be that if a team had 30 million in space they controlled free agency not anymore. 

 

Cant believe we got here again with him but glad we got something done

 

 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

3 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

I don't think he care about being a redskins based on interviews and actions, and believe he's jus doing what he's can to get as much coin a possible.

You know who else falls into this category? Every player on the team.

[onedrop]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

That is not true.  I've been nervous, now I'm upset

if it isnt true my apologies. new point then. relax anyway. the giants game was A LONG time ago, read a few posts up. basically says Cousins is and was always down with us. so now we can come up with conspiracies or ROLL with it and move on.

[Renegade7]

35 minutes ago, purbeast said:

So if "he" lost the Giants game but Hopkins makes the FG against Cincy and the defense holds Detroit from scoring and we make the playoffs, you still would not want Kirk signed to a long term deal?

Goddamit, I never said I didn't want to give him a long term deal.  I jus don't think he cares about being a redskin.  I'm not doing the if game with you.  Throwing that pick to end the giants game is why isnot signed right now

26 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

You know who else falls into this category? Every player on the team.

Bs.

[Conn]

Professional athlete wants to play for the team who will pay him the most--news at 11! 

[carex]

you know the Skins have just decided to pay Cousins 44 mil.  And they knew they had to.  So maybe Cousin's asking price isn't as reasonable as some are guessing

[Taylor 36]

9 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Goddamit, I never said I didn't want to give him a long term deal.  I jus don't think he cares about being a redskin.  I'm not doing the if game with you.  Throwing that pick 6 in the giants game is why isnot signed right now

Bs.

 

What pick 6 in the Giants game?  You seem to have a lot of facts mixed up or are simply making things up, because other than media blowhards speculating with absolutely zero facts or information, there has been nothing put out there by Kirk, his agent, or the Redskins that could leave anyone without an agenda left to think that Kirk doesn't care about being a Redskin or that he wants to leave.

 

14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

I don't think he care about being a redskins based on interviews and actions, and believe he's jus doing what he's can to get as much coin a possible.  This stopped being about market value after his interview around the pro bowl for me.  I don't feel any loyalty the man anymore, He!s showed his true colors to me, and not going to apologize for that opinion.

That is not true.  I've been nervous, now I'm upset

Here we go again.  What interviews and actions???  The Pro Bowl interviews???  He couldn't have come off sounding like he was excited to be a Redskin and help us get back to a perennial winner any more than what he did, unless he put on a cheerleaders outfit and cheered the message on camera. You seem to just have a hatred for Kirk.  Like, if he won the SB for us, you'd still act like he personally **** in your corn flakes.

[ncr2h]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Mike McCartney, Kirk's agent on Sirrius.  Highlights:

 

Kirk likes playing for the Redskins and McCartney said something to the effect of ideally he wants to stay in Washington

Redskins sending a message by giving him the exclusive tag -- shows they think he's a franchise guy

The 24 million tag sets his value

He has had exchanges with the Redskins, negotiations have been going on back and forth and its been positive

He is going to meet with Eric Schaffer this week to talk some more

He was asked if they are thinking about trade -- he said not at all, and ditto when he and Kirk talk, being traded not part of conversation

 

Edit:  I see Tandler's post above about talking to Schaffer next week, thought he said this week but maybe misheard it.  We've had conversations here about guessing the mood of Kirk and his agent.  Listening to McCartney talk -- the vibe he gives off is they will get this done, he seemed upbeat about it.   Throwing some love at the Redskins -- implying the process has been smooth, he likes dealing with Schaffer, Kirk likes being a Redskins, etc.  I still think though they need to hit at least that 24 million mark.  McCartney more or less said that the 24 million sets his value, they asked him about Luck's contract and McCartney said its relevant to today's QB market along with the cap rising.     

 

If I had to pull one definitive point about that interview is the idea that Kirk can't wait to get out of town is utter nonsense.

 

This was my hope all along.  I think Kirk and his agent could have easily gone down the path of hitting open free agency next offseason, where they would be looking at a gigantic payday (~$28-30M per year).  There's some element of risk to that path, though, where Kirk could get injured, Kirk could play poorly, etc.  So it looks like they're happy to go down the path where the Redskins give him a deal that's competitive with Andrew Luck's.  Kirk might not get every single million that he would have gotten on the open market, but he gets to feel like an actual franchise QB while not necessarily crippling our cap.  The agent already hit a home run by signing Kirk in the first place, and can lock that value in now instead of rolling the dice a little bit this season.

[Renegade7]

5 minutes ago, Taylor 36 said:

What pick 6 in the Giants game?  You seem to have a lot of facts mixed up or are simply making things up, because other than media blowhards speculating with absolutely zero facts or information, there has been nothing put out there by Kirk, his agent, or the Redskins that could leave anyone without an agenda left to think that Kirk doesn't care about being a Redskin or that he wants to leave.

 

Here we go again.  What interviews and actions???  The Pro Bowl interviews???  He couldn't have come off sounding like he was excited to be a Redskin and help us get back to a perennial winner any more than what he did, unless he put on a cheerleaders outfit and cheered the message on camera. You seem to just have a hatred for Kirk.  Like, if he won the SB for us, you'd still act like he personally **** in your corn flakes.

That was jus a type, meant say pick that ended the game.  I don't hate him, but if you don't agree with jus deal with it.

[Mr. Sinister]

39 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Just listened to Mike McCartney, Kirk's agent on Sirrius.  Highlights:

 

Kirk likes playing for the Redskins and McCartney said something to the effect of ideally he wants to stay in Washington

Redskins sending a message by giving him the exclusive tag -- shows they think he's a franchise guy

The 24 million tag sets his value

He has had exchanges with the Redskins, negotiations have been going on back and forth and its been positive

He is going to meet with Eric Schaffer this week to talk some more

He was asked if they are thinking about trade -- he said not at all, and ditto when he and Kirk talk, being traded not part of conversation

 

Edit:  I see Tandler's post above about talking to Schaffer next week, thought he said this week but maybe misheard it.  We've had conversations here about guessing the mood of Kirk and his agent.  Listening to McCartney talk -- the vibe he gives off is they will get this done, he seemed upbeat about it.   Throwing some love at the Redskins -- implying the process has been smooth, he likes dealing with Schaffer, Kirk likes being a Redskins, etc.  I still think though they need to hit at least that 24 million mark.  McCartney more or less said that the 24 million sets his value, they asked him about Luck's contract and McCartney said its relevant to today's QB market along with the cap rising.     

 

If I had to pull one definitive point about that interview is the idea that Kirk can't wait to get out of town is utter nonsense.

 

Too bad all these assholes are too cowardly to take that divisive bull**** back that they said last week. 

[Skinsinparadise]

37 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

<the answer to that, and much more, is at the link!> 

 

 

As to Mike Jones for what its worth on that point of signing him or not back in 2015.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/02/28/whos-accountable-for-the-kirk-cousins-situation-plus-more-qb-questions-for-redskins/?utm_term=.7cf96bd00c1a

 

It’s kind of a collective thing. There were differing opinions on Cousins’s ability and differing opinions on how to handle his contract situation.

People familiar with the internal deliberations at the time say Jay Gruden and offensive coordinator Sean McVay were both sold on Cousins with the 2015 season still in progress, that Scot McCloughan liked him at the right price, and that Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder were still deciding. Some among the Redskins’ decision-making ranks would have preferred to sign him to a contract extension during the 2015 season rather than wait until the offseason. Others preferred to wait.

[Taylor 36]

1 minute ago, Renegade7 said:

That was jus a type, meant say pick that ended the game.  I don't hate him, but if you don't agree with jus deal with it.

When your posts are filled with hyperbole and factually baseless remarks, it does appear that you hate the guy and have an agenda against him.  And, to your last sentence, I don't have to deal with anything.  I couldn't care less how you feel about the guy, but I will point out when you are posting things that just aren't true or have no evidence to back them up, which is common on a MB.  You are the one that is hypersensitive about the situation with Kirk; it appears you have a lot deal with.  Like @onedrop said earlier, let it go.  You'll feel much better.

[Warhead36]

I was okay with not resigning him last off season. I wanted to, because personally I was sold, but I could understand the reservation: he really only had a little more than half a season of really high level play. Lets see if he can do it again over 16 games against tougher competition. Well, he did. Warts and all, he's been a top 10 QB two years in a row. Pay him. No more 5-11 seasons.

[Gizmo 3squire]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

As to Mike Jones for what its worth on that point of signing him or not back in 2015.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2017/02/28/whos-accountable-for-the-kirk-cousins-situation-plus-more-qb-questions-for-redskins/?utm_term=.7cf96bd00c1a

 

It’s kind of a collective thing. There were differing opinions on Cousins’s ability and differing opinions on how to handle his contract situation.

People familiar with the internal deliberations at the time say Jay Gruden and offensive coordinator Sean McVay were both sold on Cousins with the 2015 season still in progress, that Scot McCloughan liked him at the right price, and that Bruce Allen and Dan Snyder were still deciding. Some among the Redskins’ decision-making ranks would have preferred to sign him to a contract extension during the 2015 season rather than wait until the offseason. Others preferred to wait.

 

Says to me that it smells like Danny and his sidekick were behind it all along, like Vince McMahon.lol