The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Thinking Skins]

Who else is gone from last year's DL? I know Baker, RJF, Goldston and Jenkins. That means we could expect at least 2 more additions (on the 53?) between now and the end of the offseason. I'm almost certain we get at least one in the draft, but i wonder if it would be another pure NT vs a hybrid player who can play nose or end.

 

The middle and late rounds will have some large bodies who ran the 40 in less than 5 secs (McDowell, Adams, Walker, Ogunjobi, Vanderdoes, Kpassagnon, Jones). That and some of the strength numbers I'm seeing are the kinds of things that are interesting for a mid to low round pick cause if they can put it together they can be dominant.  

 

But thinking about out FOs statements on Cravens and other players and flexability, it wouldn't surprise me to try to "create" a NT again.  

[Koolblue13]

We are definitely drafting a NT. Manusky always had some block eating monster in the middle.

[HTTRDynasty]

Wasn't sure where else to put this.  I've said before that Cravens gets unfairly criticized IMO for his run defense and apparently PFF agrees.  Also a great coverage LB, which bodes well for his chances of making a smooth transition to SS.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Im excited to see what a difference it'll be for Cravens. He's fun to watch. Hope he stays healthy. Him, ZB and Swearinger are going to look a heck of a lot better in the middle.

[TSO]

@HTTRDynasty I am also surprised at how seemingly under-appreciated Su'a is around here as well. I think the final month of the season along with his injuries really put a damper on what was a pretty damn good rookie season, so his actual play on the field gets overlooked. 

 

But if we were to just go off of that, my favorite thing about him was just how instinctive he was. He doesn't hesitate when he "knows what he's seeing" and he keeps himself under control enough to finish the play. That was what was said about him coming out of college, but it was great to see it actually translate. Our Dline was so inconsistent and mostly terrible that it really highlights and accentuates the fact that he was pretty much the only guy who would make plays behind the LOS from time to time. 

 

An impressive feat when blockers were constantly getting out to the second level or effectively pushing our line back. 

 

And that's as a rookie learning to play in the NFL. 

 

Hopefully the move to Safety allows him to still be able to play instinctively while decreasing the risk of him getting injured. Will be interesting to see how he reacts when he's operating in more space but I think his instincts will help him avoid the false steps that are the main problem there.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

50 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

@HTTRDynasty I am also surprised at how seemingly under-appreciated Su'a is around here as well. I think the final month of the season along with his injuries really put a damper on what was a pretty damn good rookie season, so his actual play on the field gets overlooked. 

 

Hopefully the move to Safety allows him to still be able to play instinctively while decreasing the risk of him getting injured.ill be interesting to see how he reacts when he's operating in more space but I think his instincts will help him avoid the false steps that are the main problem there.

I agree.  Cravens is a playmaker.  Put him out there in spots where he can read and react and make plays.  I think he's the type of player that we need more of, and I am hoping Manusky can get the most out of him.  

 

If the Swearinger/CRavens combo works out, we could roll with that for a while.  It has a boom/bust feel to me, but we're do for a boom.

 

Jay alluded to there being a lot of in game communication problems on defense last year between players/coaches/position groups.  Manusky might not have been my first choice for DC, but there's no doubt in my mind he will get that cleaned up pronto.  I'm expecting a bump just from all of our players being on the same page.  Fingers crossed. 

[Koolblue13]

I don't think our defense will be the jv amateur hour clown show it was last year. I don't know if it'll be good or even passable,  but its almost certainly improved. 

[Skinsfan1311]

46 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I don't think our defense will be the jv amateur hour clown show it was last year. I don't know if it'll be good or even passable,  but its almost certainly improved. 

 

I think it will improve, noticeably, with Joe Barry gone.  His schemes had our players running around like the Keystone cops.  It was so aggravating, watching the confusion. No wonder opposing offenses were licking their chops.  

[KDawg]

Man if we had another starting caliber ILB I'd feel pretty good about the LBs/S/CB... depth wise I'm not sold on us in the secondary... but I'm more than okay with Foster and Compton as reserves. They'll be VERY valuable in that role. 

 

DL is a question mark. I feel like we signed talent... but talent doesn't equate to success automatically. Schematic fit, work ethic and tenacity are far more important.

 

and even with some talent, depth on the defensive front scares the snot out of me.

[Peregrine]

I do think guys like Doctson and Cravens, if healthy, are going to surprise those people who wrote them off after their rookie seasons.  Injuries stink, but as long as they dont keep happening they cant keep talent down.  Those 2 seem to have it in spades.

[98ORAKPO98]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Man if we had another starting caliber ILB I'd feel pretty good about the LBs/S/CB... depth wise I'm not sold on us in the secondary... but I'm more than okay with Foster and Compton as reserves. They'll be VERY valuable in that role. 

 

DL is a question mark. I feel like we signed talent... but talent doesn't equate to success automatically. Schematic fit, work ethic and tenacity are far more important.

 

and even with some talent, depth on the defensive front scares the snot out of me.

Hopefully Martrell Spaight will prove to be starting caliber during training camp.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

Man if we had another starting caliber ILB I'd feel pretty good about the LBs/S/CB... depth wise I'm not sold on us in the secondary... but I'm more than okay with Foster and Compton as reserves. They'll be VERY valuable in that role. 

 

DL is a question mark. I feel like we signed talent... but talent doesn't equate to success automatically. Schematic fit, work ethic and tenacity are far more important.

 

and even with some talent, depth on the defensive front scares the snot out of me.

I'm hoping we grab a corner fairly early for several reasons.  S depth is an issue as well, though at least we have our previous starter (Blackmon) as a backup.  Wonder what the heck we're gonna do with Hall.  

 

I don't 'like' our dline depth, but I'm ok with them.  Ioannidas and Lanier are up and coming guys with some potential, Hood is a solid vet (not at NT though), McGee seems intriguing as a rotational guy, and one among Taylor/Mbu/Francis can hopefully back up the NT.  My issue with the dline is that McClain is the only guy I see as a reasonable starter... and that could be a major problem.  

 

We better hope the draft and/or the ILB blitzes pay dividends for us...

[Burgold]

I feel okay about corner. Last year was such an outlier for Breeland. I think he is much better than what we saw. From all reports, there was a ton of defensive confusion. I imagine that being confused as a corner is really bad. If you are a second late your guy is open. Cleaning up the calls will get him back on track. Norman is good and Fuller is high potential. 

 

If we can get the Dline straight and can apply consistent front seven pressure on the run and pass (big if) our corners might return to being our strength.

[Koolblue13]

I have zero faith in Breeland.

[carex]

56 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I have zero faith in Breeland.

 

based on one bad year?  we need to give Fuller a chance if Breeland fails instead of going for other guys.  Hell, with the people we've gotten at S we should be able to move Blackmon back to CB and Dunbar.

[Koolblue13]

10 minutes ago, carex said:

 

based on one bad year?  we need to give Fuller a chance if Breeland fails instead of going for other guys.  Hell, with the people we've gotten at S we should be able to move Blackmon back to CB and Dunbar.

Well thats a depressing post.

[carex]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Well thats a depressing post.

 

I found yours depressing, I believe we need to look to get players where the cupboard was practically bare recently, not look for reasons to ignore need

[Koolblue13]

2 minutes ago, carex said:

 

I found yours depressing, I believe we need to look to get players where the cupboard was practically bare recently, not look for reasons to ignore need

Lol you just listed all the players in said cupboard as answers.

[carex]

Just now, Koolblue13 said:

Lol you just listed all the players in said cupboard as answers.

 

Yes?  That was my point. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

On 4/24/2017 at 6:25 PM, KDawg said:

Man if we had another starting caliber ILB I'd feel pretty good about the LBs/S/CB... depth wise I'm not sold on us in the secondary... but I'm more than okay with Foster and Compton as reserves. They'll be VERY valuable in that role. 

 

DL is a question mark. I feel like we signed talent... but talent doesn't equate to success automatically. Schematic fit, work ethic and tenacity are far more important.

 

and even with some talent, depth on the defensive front scares the snot out of me.

 

Good post right here. I'm pretty much on board with it, and hope we get someone in the draft. Almost every great defense in the NFL has had great linebackers in the middle. The Panthers last year, the Seahawks of the last 5-6 years, the 49ers in the early 10's. 

 

Of course, they have all had great D-Lines as well. It's a tough call, but I like Tomsula's effect on the D-Line and getting a lot out of little. This is why I slightly lean towards ILB improvement as well. 

 

[Koolblue13]

6 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Good post right here. I'm pretty much on board with it, and hope we get someone in the draft. Almost every great defense in the NFL has had great linebackers in the middle. The Panthers last year, the Seahawks of the last 5-6 years, the 49ers in the early 10's. 

 

Of course, they have all had great D-Lines as well. It's a tough call, but I like Tomsula's effect on the D-Line and getting a lot out of little. This is why I slightly lean towards ILB improvement as well. 

 

Not even just great. Bad defenses are passable with great MLB play. Look at the Cowboys and Lee.

[justice98]

On 4/24/2017 at 8:24 PM, Koolblue13 said:

I don't think our defense will be the jv amateur hour clown show it was last year. I don't know if it'll be good or even passable,  but its almost certainly improved. 

 

With an elite offense (assuming they just maintain their level of play), any defensive improvement is probably worth a couple games.

 

The domino effects of just having a passable defense should be fun to watch.  

[Koolblue13]

17 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

With an elite offense (assuming they just maintain their level of play), any defensive improvement is probably worth a couple games.

 

The domino effects of just having a passable defense should be fun to watch.  

That was our mantra the last few years. We'll put up so many points, it'll make the other team one dimensional and we can just pin our ears back. Well, we put up a lot of points, thats for sure. We were still on our heals most of the year, because theres almost no talent.

 

The domino effect worked to get the Falcons into the super bowl. That sucked for them not having a solid defense.

[skinny21]

45 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

That was our mantra the last few years. We'll put up so many points, it'll make the other team one dimensional and we can just pin our ears back. Well, we put up a lot of points, thats for sure. We were still on our heals most of the year, because theres almost no talent.

 

The domino effect worked to get the Falcons into the super bowl. That sucked for them not having a solid defense.

That may have been our mantra... but I sure didn't see any defensive improvement last year, lol.  

 

@justice98 - agreed, improve a bit on D and we could maybe see a swing of a couple/few games. 

 

Given our our current additions (Brown/Swearinger/McClain and moving Cravens) if we can find a solid contributor at dline (ideally both a de and nt), I think we're going to see a very different D.  I still think we have a good chance at landing an edge rusher, corner, ILB and 1 or 2 dlinemen that can come in and compete for a starting role.  

 

Of course, I'm a little concerned the offense regresses (slightly), in which case it may negate defensive improvements.  Not my 1st choice, but that's one of the reasons I wouldn't be upset with one of the top few backs.  

 

 

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, justice98 said:

 

With an elite offense (assuming they just maintain their level of play), any defensive improvement is probably worth a couple games.

 

The domino effects of just having a passable defense should be fun to watch.  

Somebody (I really have no idea who that would be) started an "offense vs. defense" thread that delved into this very topic.  Using point differntial as the main statistical point.  The key takeaway was that the 'Skins had a +.9 point differential.  That equates to ~8-8.  New Orleans had the second best Points for, but misserable defense, they were 9-7.  Best 2 teams in the league in point differential? NE and Atlanta.  They played the last game.

 

Keep the offense clicking, get better on defense, win more games.  Don't try to go from "Very good" to "Generationally Awesome" on offense. That's harder than going from crap to below average on defense.  

 

 

15 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I have zero faith in Breeland.

I think that he's going to have a bounce-back year.  I don't know why.  I just kinda think that the coaching last year, especially DB coaching, was so horrific that he was negatively effected more than most.  

 

16 hours ago, Burgold said:

I feel okay about corner. Last year was such an outlier for Breeland. I think he is much better than what we saw. From all reports, there was a ton of defensive confusion. I imagine that being confused as a corner is really bad. If you are a second late your guy is open. Cleaning up the calls will get him back on track. Norman is good and Fuller is high potential. 

 

If we can get the Dline straight and can apply consistent front seven pressure on the run and pass (big if) our corners might return to being our strength.

We have an elite corner in Norman.  And a good safety in Swearinger.  Cravens will be an upgrade, but he is learning a new position.  Breeland is a ?, but as I said, I think he's got the talent to be fine.  I'm not sure who's penciled into be the nickle CB.  

 

I'm really worried about pressure.  Our DL is (at best) average, and our OLBs are not explosive.  IF (and this is a big if) Preston Smith figures it out, and Gallette stays healthy and returns to form, that would help.  Kerrigan is what he is, and Murphy is a good rotational guy when he's not suspended.  

 

 

On 4/24/2017 at 11:22 PM, skinny21 said:

I'm hoping we grab a corner fairly early for several reasons.  S depth is an issue as well, though at least we have our previous starter (Blackmon) as a backup.  Wonder what the heck we're gonna do with Hall.  

 

I don't 'like' our dline depth, but I'm ok with them.  Ioannidas and Lanier are up and coming guys with some potential, Hood is a solid vet (not at NT though), McGee seems intriguing as a rotational guy, and one among Taylor/Mbu/Francis can hopefully back up the NT.  My issue with the dline is that McClain is the only guy I see as a reasonable starter... and that could be a major problem.  

 

We better hope the draft and/or the ILB blitzes pay dividends for us...

 

On 4/24/2017 at 9:25 PM, KDawg said:

Man if we had another starting caliber ILB I'd feel pretty good about the LBs/S/CB... depth wise I'm not sold on us in the secondary... but I'm more than okay with Foster and Compton as reserves. They'll be VERY valuable in that role. 

 

DL is a question mark. I feel like we signed talent... but talent doesn't equate to success automatically. Schematic fit, work ethic and tenacity are far more important.

 

and even with some talent, depth on the defensive front scares the snot out of me.

IF we had another ILB, I would feel pretty good about ILB/S/BD starters.  We do have like 18 people we've tried to use at safety, so there is some depth there, the question is if it's even remotely talented.  

 

I have lots of questions about OLB, where Kerrigan is the only dependable starter (Murphy kinda, but he is suspended for 4 games, so that counts against him in the dependable department).  

 

DL, well, I hope Tomsula can make water from Wine.

 

I also hope we pick up 3 DL in the first 4 rounds, because they are Best Player Available.  Fix the problem.  

 

On 4/24/2017 at 9:13 PM, Skinsfan1311 said:

 

I think it will improve, noticeably, with Joe Barry gone.  His schemes had our players running around like the Keystone cops.  It was so aggravating, watching the confusion. No wonder opposing offenses were licking their chops.  

The Village Idiot can now try and sink the Rams.  Boy Wonder made a huge mistake taking Barry over there.  

 

On 4/24/2017 at 3:25 PM, Koolblue13 said:

We are definitely drafting a NT. Manusky always had some block eating monster in the middle.

I would agree, question is where.  I'm guessing 3rd or 4th round, without a whole lot of data to back that up.  

 

On 4/24/2017 at 3:21 PM, Thinking Skins said:

Who else is gone from last year's DL? I know Baker, RJF, Goldston and Jenkins. That means we could expect at least 2 more additions (on the 53?) between now and the end of the offseason. I'm almost certain we get at least one in the draft, but i wonder if it would be another pure NT vs a hybrid player who can play nose or end.

Everybody on the DL should be gone.  Is Goldston actually gone?  

 

On 4/24/2017 at 3:21 PM, Thinking Skins said:

The middle and late rounds will have some large bodies who ran the 40 in less than 5 secs (McDowell, Adams, Walker, Ogunjobi, Vanderdoes, Kpassagnon, Jones). That and some of the strength numbers I'm seeing are the kinds of things that are interesting for a mid to low round pick cause if they can put it together they can be dominant.  

 

But thinking about out FOs statements on Cravens and other players and flexability, it wouldn't surprise me to try to "create" a NT again.  

If they try to "create" a NT, then they are stupid.  You don't create a NT.  You draft a big fat guy with some athletic skills, and tell him to not move. 

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Separate thought, and only somewhat relevant to this thread, but I'm not happy the Saints signed Peterson. If Peyton figures out how to utilize him as a power-runner to complement the passing game, and he's similar to what we've seen from him in the past, they could be the highest scoring offense in the history of the league.  Imagine what Brees will be able to do with a serious run game and PA threat.  We better be ready when we play them.  We might need 50 to be competitive.