The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[98ORAKPO98]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

http://m.redskins.com/media-gallery/videos/NFL-Profile---Temple-DT-Matthew-Ioannidis/0b5719a2-8d0b-4241-9b6e-72333323c73e

I was excited about King Ioannidis last year, he supposedly tore up the senior bowl, hopefully he'll break out this year or next. Maybe beef up to 320 and dominate at NT for us.

 

 

[carex]

35 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

That's being unrealistically optimistic IMO. They couldn't even make the roster on a team that started Ziggy Hood as NT. Which, to say, they did just as well as I could have, with 2 neck surgeries in the last 13 months, lower lumbar surgery 18 years ago, being 48 years old and playing WR when I did play.

 

And you don't even TRY to improve.

 

I'm not saying you throw ever draft pick you have at the position. But how many WR's did we go after in FA. How many WR's did we draft? And we still had guys like Crowder and Harris on the roster.

 

What's good enough? Allowing 5 yards a carry on first down?

 

We need a "solid" guy there, instead of a human turnstyle. Your approach does nothing to actually improve the situation.

 

and your way is just making noise.  Neither Francis not Mbu were on the roster in training camp, they were signed to the PS in season.I don't think the Skins were looking for new blood like that mid season.  I mean if they  were they could have cut Matt Jones as soon as it was clear he wasn't going to be playing anymore and brought Mack Brown up sooner.  You can't blame these guy's talents when the Skins aren't looking to change gears in mid stream.  Hell Baker came in as a NT and still has the frame, they could have put him there more

[Thinking Skins]

I'm really interested in seeing what Ioannidis can do on the line as well as some of the other linemen that we brought in in January. Not expecting too much from Taylor - more than Galette? I don't know. I honestly don't expect either one to make the roster. But just like I've said all offseason when we didn't go the route that was asked for by fans, I'm sure that we have a plan. Had Allen not fallen to us, I could see us drafting Foster instead and then a DT in the second. But we didn't because we didn't have to. Ioannidis was supposed to be a future NT last year and maybe that's part of the plan, but if not we still have a bunch of other options like the other moves that'll be made post-draft, the June 1st cuts, other possible trades, the other roster cuts. etc. 

 

The season doesn't start tomorrow and neigher does training camp. For all we know we may cut 5 players this week and add some other UDFAs or invite 10 guys to come in and compete for the NT spot and see what they've got to offer. 

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I'm really interested in seeing what Ioannidis can do on the line as well as some of the other linemen that we brought in in January. Not expecting too much from Taylor - more than Galette? I don't know. I honestly don't expect either one to make the roster. But just like I've said all offseason when we didn't go the route that was asked for by fans, I'm sure that we have a plan. Had Allen not fallen to us, I could see us drafting Foster instead and then a DT in the second. But we didn't because we didn't have to. Ioannidis was supposed to be a future NT last year and maybe that's part of the plan, but if not we still have a bunch of other options like the other moves that'll be made post-draft, the June 1st cuts, other possible trades, the other roster cuts. etc. 

 

The season doesn't start tomorrow and neigher does training camp. For all we know we may cut 5 players this week and add some other UDFAs or invite 10 guys to come in and compete for the NT spot and see what they've got to offer. 

 

I don't expect anything from Ioannidis this year. Maybe a marginal improvement from his invisibility of last year, but I don't really expect anything. From what we have on the roster right now. Phil Taylor is probably the staring NT. And when you consider historically how little the Redskins have done in regards to getting a NT in the last 7 years, I expect we have done everything we plan to do for this year. Give Tomsula nothing to work with, fail miserably, and then blame him for not creating something out of nothing.

[Koolblue13]

45 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I don't expect anything from Ioannidis this year. Maybe a marginal improvement from his invisibility of last year, but I don't really expect anything. From what we have on the roster right now. Phil Taylor is probably the staring NT. And when you consider historically how little the Redskins have done in regards to getting a NT in the last 7 years, I expect we have done everything we plan to do for this year. Give Tomsula nothing to work with, fail miserably, and then blame him for not creating something out of nothing.

We've had Golston for the last decade. Why are you complaining?  Lol

 

Seriously though, did he just retire?

[carex]

you know what, please stop talking about nose tackles.  We have several people who can line up there and no real proof the alternatives we could have afforded would have done better

 

I feel like the Skins are pretty much set except for maybe backup center.  There's a few guys out there who might be good for one year rentals.  Do we look at them?  There's also going to  be some guys cut maybe we just wait for that?  Hell, we could get Austin Reiter back, the Browns currently have five centers on the roster

[Thinking Skins]

16 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

I don't expect anything from Ioannidis this year. Maybe a marginal improvement from his invisibility of last year, but I don't really expect anything. From what we have on the roster right now. Phil Taylor is probably the staring NT. And when you consider historically how little the Redskins have done in regards to getting a NT in the last 7 years, I expect we have done everything we plan to do for this year. Give Tomsula nothing to work with, fail miserably, and then blame him for not creating something out of nothing.

 

Thats one way of looking at it. I think they're going to continue going young and either use one of the young guys (Ioannidis, McCain, McGee, Francis, Mbu) until somebody either wins the job or someone emerges. Then there are a number of veterans available who may or may not be able to play the position: Arthur Jones, Dan Williams, Jaye Howard, Vince Wilfork, Sen'Derrick Marks, Roy Miller, Paul Soliai, Jonathan Babineaux, Sean Lissemore, Corbin Bryant, Kedric GOlston, Tony McDaniel, Leger Douzable, etc. 

 

You keep saying that we're giving Tomsula nothing but between Allen, Hood, McGee and McCain, he has some talent at DE. The question is just if he can find somebody to play the NT position while they rotate. The mere addition of Allen will immediately take pressure off the NT so its not like anything we've had here in the past 7 (or even 25) years. The whole reports behind all the guys on our DL (outside of Allen) is their ability to stop the run and suspect pass rush. I really do have faith that we have a lot more talent on the DL and the defense as a whole this year. 

 

And like I said in the draft thread, it got to the point where I doubt the players being considered were better than UDFAs or some of the guys we have on our roster. Sure I'd like to bring in some guys for competition but if we go forward with the guys on the roster before the draft it doesn't doom us to repeat the Giants game for 16 straight weeks. 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

42 minutes ago, carex said:

you know what, please stop talking about nose tackles.  We have several people who can line up there and no real proof the alternatives we could have afforded would have done better

 

I feel like the Skins are pretty much set except for maybe backup center.  There's a few guys out there who might be good for one year rentals.  Do we look at them?  There's also going to  be some guys cut maybe we just wait for that?  Hell, we could get Austin Reiter back, the Browns currently have five centers on the roster

 

I'm pretty sure we just drafted our backup center in the 6th round...

[RWJ]

54 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I'm pretty sure we just drafted our backup center in the 6th round...

and OG if need be.

[98ORAKPO98]

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/von-miller-the-5-toughest-guys-in-the-nfl/amp/

 

Von Miller, on the toughest offensive lineman he's faced.

 

Toughest Offensive Tackle: Trent Williams

The four-time Pro Bowler. The classic Beast. Trent has all the physical tools. But what separates him is that he’s also the most mentally tough guy I’ve ever seen. He has that swag about him that makes him almost more like a defensive player. He loves talking to you. Usually it’s just the defensive guys talking — “I’m on your ass all day, bruh!” But Trent has that defensive mentality on the other side of the ball. Some tackles, they just want to not get beat, but Trent is always in attack mode.

The battle at the line of scrimmage is like a 12-round boxing fight. He’s going to get some punches in, and I’m going to get some punches in. What makes a great offensive lineman is the ability to take a shot on the chin and get right back up and not be rattled. If Trent gets beat, he knows it’s part of the game. He doesn’t get passive — he’s right back on your ass the next play. His mind-set is like, “You beat me? Alright, you got lucky on that play. Let’s go.” That’s the confidence you need to be great over four quarters. He’s the toughest guy on the field every single play.

 

 

[JPG]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I'm pretty sure we just drafted our backup center in the 6th round...

 Don't know if will even make the roster yet. I think we need dt and center for sure. Hopefully the rook and Lanier fill that void but we won't know till august.

[Skinsinparadise]

9 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

And like I said in the draft thread, it got to the point where I doubt the players being considered were better than UDFAs or some of the guys we have on our roster. Sure I'd like to bring in some guys for competition but if we go forward with the guys on the roster before the draft it doesn't doom us to repeat the Giants game for 16 straight weeks. 

 

 

I'll stick with the Giants game you refer to and make a point based on that.  It's possible we are set but using the Giants as a template as one of the better run stuffing defenses in the league and they sadly happen to be in our division.  Damon Harrison by most accounts is the best run stuffer in the league.  Olivier Vernon is arguably the best run stuffing DE in the league.  They just drafted arguably the best run stuffing DT in the draft.  And Pierre Paul is one of the better run stuffing DE's.  You add Landon Collins who is insane against the run and the team is loaded everywhere against the run.  Good luck running against them.

 

 Bruce Allen said they lost to the Giants because they couldn't run or stop their running game.   Dallas' offense seemed hopeless against them because they are loaded everywhere against the run and put all the pressure on Dak.  IMO the Giants just overpowered the Redskins in that last game.  Their defensive line overpowered our O line and hence both Kelley and Kirk had bad games.  

 

We got Jonathan Allen who I think will be great.  Otherwise we got some potential against the run.  But on paper, using the Giants as an example, I don't think this team is super caliber against the run, yet.   

 

Using PFF metrics, Compton (when he is in the game and sadly I think he will be in the games enough to be a factor), Hood and McClain and Ioannidis are terrible against the run.  All scoring in the 40s.  Ditto Preston Smith.   The Giants on the other hand are stacked everywhere against the run with the exception of Keenan Robinson but Robinson hardly plays the run anyway -- he's usually in passing packages.

 

This isn't me complaining, I like what they have done in the off season.  But as for acquiring run stuffing talent I think the Giants have gone a peg or two higher in recent years.  2 seasons ago the Giants run defense was atrocious like ours -- and they have gone completely to town and now they are elite against the run.  IMO talent wise we are set up to elevate from atrocious against the run to mediocre -- but its doubtful we are making the leap the Giants did in the previous offseason. 

 

IMO to hit lightening in a bottle, we'd need Phil Taylor to resemble who he once was.  In his heyday, he was a stud nose tackle.  Hard for me to imagine Ioannidis who struggled last year becomes a force this season and blossom as a nose tackle or guys that have had a hard time even sticking on to rosters around the league like Francis solving the issue but you never know. 

 

 

[Koolblue13]

Given the cowboys recent success, stopping the run is all that matters. 

 

Passing

Redskins

Giants

Cowboys

 

Pass defense

Redskins

Giants

Cowboys

 

Run

Cowboys

Redskins

Giants

 

Run D

Giants

Redskins

Cowboys 

 

I think its a 3 way race for the division. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. 

[CTskin]

For Blade's sanity, I hope every single NT in this draft fails. Either way, I'll be following the careers of the late-rounders for the "we could have had [insert NT name] over Montae" ES talk a few years down the line. 

[HTTRDynasty]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Using PFF metrics, Compton (when he is in the game and sadly I think he will be in the games enough to be a factor), Hood and McClain and Ioannidis are terrible against the run.  All scoring in the 40s.  Ditto Preston Smith.   The Giants on the other hand are stacked everywhere against the run with the exception of Keenan Robinson but Robinson hardly plays the run anyway -- he's usually in passing packages.

 

I'm wondering what could have happened to McClain to make him so terrible against the run the 2nd half of the season.  He would have to have been the worst DT by far over that time period to bring him down so much in PFF's eyes.  This is a Week 9 blurb they had on him:

 

Dallas Cowboys at Cleveland Browns

9. Cowboys DT Terrell McClain owns a run-stop percentage of 17.0, highest among NFL defensive tackles.

McClain is in his sixth NFL season, and is having his best year yet as a rotational defensive tackle. In 88 run snaps, he has 15 run stops. One of the best parts of the Browns’ offense this season is Isaiah Crowell’s running, where he averages 4.9 yards per carry. The Cowboys will expect McClain, among others, to stop Crowell and bring Dallas another victory.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-30-pff-stats-to-know-for-nfl-week-9/

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I'm wondering what could have happened to McClain to make him so terrible against the run the 2nd half of the season.  He would have to have been the worst DT by far over that time period to bring him down so much in PFF's eyes.  This is a Week 9 blurb they had on him:

 

Dallas Cowboys at Cleveland Browns

9. Cowboys DT Terrell McClain owns a run-stop percentage of 17.0, highest among NFL defensive tackles.

McClain is in his sixth NFL season, and is having his best year yet as a rotational defensive tackle. In 88 run snaps, he has 15 run stops. One of the best parts of the Browns’ offense this season is Isaiah Crowell’s running, where he averages 4.9 yards per carry. The Cowboys will expect McClain, among others, to stop Crowell and bring Dallas another victory.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-30-pff-stats-to-know-for-nfl-week-9/

 

Don't know but McClain's run defense score ended at 49.3

 

They liked McGeee, he's a 76.1

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise Yeah, the Giants are (unfortunately) the blueprint for run defense. We've probably inched that direction with our additions, but we're a long way off from that type on dline.

 

McGee - not so much as a run stuffer, but has the ability to not get blown off the line

Allen - I doubt he dominates anytime soon, but he's likely an upgrade over anyone not named Baker.  

Hood - perhaps nothing special, but I'm betting a significant part of his poor grading had to do with 1) playing out of position and 2) moving to a 1 gap scheme.  I'd also maintain that 1 gapping linemen can be made to look bad when they win their gap but the back runs right by them through the next back over. 

McClain has a chance at being the player we thought we were getting in Paea.  Should help having better talent around him than Paea did. 

 

Hopefully Cravens can be our (watered down?) version of Collins, while Anderson should be able to make an impact and Brown should be a significant upgrade (if he plays over Compton, which is a question yet to be answered).  

 

I see us continuing to struggle to stop the run run out of our base D (with some improvement though), but I think we ought to see a big upgrade in our nickel defense.  

 

One thing that could help is scheme.  If Manusky runs his double A gap blitzes, or shows that but only rushes one of the backers (as he likes to do), that could have a healthy impact.  

We'll see what happens, but it certainly looks like our talent level is moving in the right direction.  

[HTTRDynasty]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Don't know but McClain's run defense score ended at 49.3

 

They liked McGeee, he's a 76.1

 

Yea, it's weird.  Maybe he was playing through injury over most of the 2nd half of the season?  I know he suffered an ankle injury early in week 16 and missed most of that game and week 17, but maybe he just re-aggravated an existing injury.  Hard for me to believe he went from the best run-stopping DT to the worst, from the 1st half of the season to the 2nd, without an injury.

[Skinsinparadise]

My highest hopes for the run defense is this:

 

MLB: the fascination with Will Compton and his cool personality (no sarcasm implied, I met him, he is really cool) stops and Foster and Brown start

 

Safety:  Swearinger and Cravens while neither score in the range of Landon Collins as a run stopper -- they are stil both above average and help.

 

Ryan Anderson:  helps upgrade the edge against the run.  Kerrigan IMO is overrated against the run, Cooley explains this at times -- but he's decent against the run.  He's no Olivier Vernon though. 

 

Jonathan Allen:  upgrade over Chris Baker

 

Phil Taylor:  the more I think about it, the more critical he is.  He was really good a few seasons back.  does he have anything left?  If he does it would be huge.

[Skinsinparadise]

Listening to Cooley's film breakdowns of the draft, he's putting a wet blanket on the draft to Sheehan who worships his film study.

 

In short, Cooley thinks Allen is a stud.  But thinks Anderson, Moreau, Perine are somewhere in the range from OK to good.   

 

Ironic just saw Keim write an article on nose:

http://www.espn.com/blog/washington-redskins/post/_/id/31201/redskins-hope-a-healthy-phil-taylor-can-provide-answer-at-nose-tackle

They have four other primary candidates. That’s not to say one of them will win the job or even be on the roster, but they’re certainly four players the Redskins hope can end up playing nose. Here’s a look at each:

Phil Taylor: This would be the dream scenario for Washington because the former first-round pick has the size and talent to play the position. But they need to hope a guy who has dealt with injuries throughout his career suddenly can stay healthy. In four years with Cleveland, Taylor played 44 games (missing 20 because of injuries). He last played in 2014, but appeared in only five games because of various knee issues (he eventually needed surgery). And that’s the last time he’s played. At this point, you can’t assume he’s the same guy from several years ago; it’s been too long. If he comes through, it should be viewed as a bonus.

Matt Ioannidis: The Redskins drafted him in the fifth round last year, hoping he would develop as a nose but also be able to play tackle in their nickel package. But it was a big adjustment for him considering he did not play this spot at Temple. Before the draft, because he weighed 299 pounds, most teams had talked to him about playing tackle in a 4-3 or end in a 3-4 -- not nose. However, Ioannidis does play with strength and, in the end, could be the best option here. He’s been focused on adding weight.

Joey Mbu: Atlanta signed him as an undrafted free agent in 2015 -- pre-draft projections placed him as a seventh-rounder at best. He was on the Falcons’ practice squad most of 2015, but did spend two games on the active roster. He was released in the Falcons’ final cuts in 2016 and signed to the Redskins’ practice squad in October. He’s considered an effort guy, but will he be strong enough to handle nose tackle?

A.J. Francis: He also has the size, at 6-foot-5, 335 pounds and also entered as an undrafted free agent with Miami in 2013. Since then, he’s spent time with six organizations -- mostly on practice squads -- and has appeared in three games with two tackles.

The Redskins also hope Tomsula can coax production from nose as he did in San Francisco with lower-round talent.

“I feel good,” Gruden said. “A lot of people don’t know the guys we’ve had here or the guys there were on our practice squad like Joey Mbu, A.J. Francis. We feel good about the development of Matt Ioannidis, those three guys. And we added Phil Taylor. He looks healthy ... we’ve got some multi-dimensional guys.

 

[SkinsPassion4Life]

Morgan Moses extension was for 5 years, 40 mil...20 guaranteed...starts in 2018...sounds good to me.

[TheGreek1973]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll stick with the Giants game you refer to and make a point based on that.  It's possible we are set but using the Giants as a template as one of the better run stuffing defenses in the league and they sadly happen to be in our division.  Damon Harrison by most accounts is the best run stuffer in the league.  Olivier Vernon is arguably the best run stuffing DE in the league.  They just drafted arguably the best run stuffing DT in the draft.  And Pierre Paul is one of the better run stuffing DE's.  You add Landon Collins who is insane against the run and the team is loaded everywhere against the run.  Good luck running against them.

 

 Bruce Allen said they lost to the Giants because they couldn't run or stop their running game.   Dallas' offense seemed hopeless against them because they are loaded everywhere against the run and put all the pressure on Dak.  IMO the Giants just overpowered the Redskins in that last game.  Their defensive line overpowered our O line and hence both Kelley and Kirk had bad games.  

 

We got Jonathan Allen who I think will be great.  Otherwise we got some potential against the run.  But on paper, using the Giants as an example, I don't think this team is super caliber against the run, yet.   

 

Using PFF metrics, Compton (when he is in the game and sadly I think he will be in the games enough to be a factor), Hood and McClain and Ioannidis are terrible against the run.  All scoring in the 40s.  Ditto Preston Smith.   The Giants on the other hand are stacked everywhere against the run with the exception of Keenan Robinson but Robinson hardly plays the run anyway -- he's usually in passing packages.

 

This isn't me complaining, I like what they have done in the off season.  But as for acquiring run stuffing talent I think the Giants have gone a peg or two higher in recent years.  2 seasons ago the Giants run defense was atrocious like ours -- and they have gone completely to town and now they are elite against the run.  IMO talent wise we are set up to elevate from atrocious against the run to mediocre -- but its doubtful we are making the leap the Giants did in the previous offseason. 

 

IMO to hit lightening in a bottle, we'd need Phil Taylor to resemble who he once was.  In his heyday, he was a stud nose tackle.  Hard for me to imagine Ioannidis who struggled last year becomes a force this season and blossom as a nose tackle or guys that have had a hard time even sticking on to rosters around the league like Francis solving the issue but you never know. 

 

 

I agree with a lot you said about the Giants D but don't forget they blew all their load (spend crazy money on D FA) and even their draft capital and now are stuck with a great run D, decent pass D, great WRs and below average OL which makes both their run game and pass game suspect.  In other words their team doesn't have balance at all.  yea they beat us in that final game but they also barely beat teams and sneaked into the playoffs because we failed to put teams like the Lions and Bengals away.  The funny thing is I am not afraid of the Giants at all, nor the Cowboys, its the Eagles that I am afraid.  Yet I honestly think with the additional talent PLUS the change of coaching in the D-side we will be a nasty surprise for teams in the nfc east.

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Morgan Moses extension was for 5 years, 40 mil...20 guaranteed...starts in 2018...sounds good to me.

 

Great deal all around, only adds a couple of million onto this years cap hit too. Cracking business.

[Skinsinparadise]

45 minutes ago, TheGreek1973 said:

I agree with a lot you said about the Giants D but don't forget they blew all their load (spend crazy money on D FA) and even their draft capital and now are stuck with a great run D, decent pass D, great WRs and below average OL which makes both their run game and pass game suspect.  In other words their team doesn't have balance at all.  yea they beat us in that final game but they also barely beat teams and sneaked into the playoffs because we failed to put teams like the Lions and Bengals away.  The funny thing is I am not afraid of the Giants at all, nor the Cowboys, its the Eagles that I am afraid.  Yet I honestly think with the additional talent PLUS the change of coaching in the D-side we will be a nasty surprise for teams in the nfc east.

 

Just saw one odds prediction from a Vegas outfit putting the Giants at 22:1 to make the Superbowl, Redskins at 60-1.  I saw another one similar so hopefully those guys are wrong.  Not that it matters but for kicks Bayless just ran a segment about the NFC east and it was all about who's better the Cowboys or Giants.  I am getting the vibe that we will be hearing more about those two teams as the season approaches as the favorites.   Is it justified?  You got me.  Hopefully its a good motivational tool leading into the season.

http://www.vegasinsider.com/nfl/odds/futures/

 

I personally dislike the Giants as much as Dallas so I hate to say it but they do scare me.  They have one of the best safeties in the league.  They have two shut down corners.  Their receivers are good.   They probably have the best run stuffing defense in the league.  And their pass rush is decent.  They had the 2nd ranked defense in the league as to football outsiders stats.  They did spend crazy money as you say -- but they killed it.  They added the top run stuffer in the league, the top run stuffing edge player in the league (arguably) and added a shut down corner who judging by PFF metrics or Pro-bowl votes was better than Josh Norman last season. 

 

They didn't do much about the O line in the draft but they did sign Fluker in free agency.   According to PFF metrics and hopefully they are wrong their O line is above average at every position except one.  Their run game is so so.  But on paper their runners IMO are similar pedigree to the Redskins.  And they just added Marshall who is one of the better receivers at blocking on the edge.  

 

Hopefully PFF is wrong!  but according to their metrics the Giants are loaded just about everywhere with above average players.  IMO the key that makes us competitive with them is Kirk IMO is distinctly better than Eli at this stage of their career.  

 

But yeah I think the Giants are still well suited to beat the Cowboys because of their run stuffing abilities.  Even their corners are well above average at stuffing the run.   And I thought their D line manhandled our O line for too much of that game -- Kirk was under siege, and that's rare because our O line is generally good.  

 

Could they beat the Giants next year?  Sure, why not.  But I think that team is pretty well suited to beating NFC East teams with the makeup of their roster.  It helped that they were Johnny one note with Beckham and you could double team his last year.  I think that's a tougher road this year with Engram and Marshall in the fold.  

[PartyPosse]

4 hours ago, SkinsPassion4Life said:

Morgan Moses extension was for 5 years, 40 mil...20 guaranteed...starts in 2018...sounds good to me.

 

Wow. What a great deal! It's crazy the money spent on LT vs RT. In 2017 there will be 17 LT making 8 mil or more whereas only 3 RT.