The 2017 FA Thread - OP Updated with Signings (Sundberg, Galette, VD, Hood re-signed) *** Terrell McClain, Stacy McGee, DJ Swearinger, Terrelle Pryor, Chris Carter, Brian Quick, ZACH BROWN(!!)***

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, Stefanskins said:

Ioannidis might be our guy at nose

 

He's going to have to have improved a lot for that to happen. Or we're in big trouble. At this point, I think he's a better DE than NT. I had hopes for him last year, but I was really not impressed in his limited action. He was a non factor, and seemed to get moved off the ball way too easy. He did manage to put on 10 pounds, but I'm not holding out for him this year.

 

1 hour ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

Any NT's that look like they could be targets if cut by other teams? Haloti Ngata maybe? Seems like hes a bad fit schematically for the Lions

 

Dan Williams I would bring in for sure. He's 30, so really only a stop gap for a couple seasons, but was very productive and one of the better run stoppers in the league. Was cut due to salary cap issues the Raiders have. Sen'Derrick Marks is another I would look at. Tore a ACL a couple of years ago, but seems to have recovered from that. Before then, he was very good. Not sure if Ngata is available (I think he has 1 year left on his contract) but he would be a mammoth in the middle of our DL. I would be happy with any of those 3.

 

52 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Got to think Taylor get's 1st crack at it.  Keep an eye on the UDFA w signed out of Texas Tech. 

 

AT this point, Taylor is the only guy on the roster that has shown anything in the NFL, so I agree with you there. And, if he has recovered from from all the injuries that kept him out of football since 2014, he was a very good player. Healthy, and not having to play 50 snaps a week, he could very well be a major overhaul. It's very much wishful thinking, but it would be a great story. Phils rookie year was really impressive. Comeback player of the year kind of thing

 

Oh, and thanks for reminding me about Ondre Pipkins. 5 star Michigan recruit that kinda got a raw deal and transferred to Texas Tech. I could not find much film on him, but I liked what I saw. From a physical standpoint, really the kind of guy I want in the middle of our D. Locates the ball well, and showed good hussle for a big man. Owned the LoS in what little I saw of him, very stout. No idea if he can rush the passer, but if he can collapse the pocket enough to make it easier for our edge rushers and Jonathan Allen, that is enough for me. I wish I could find more tap on him. but, I will definitely keep an eye on him.Probably an upgrade on everyone outside of Taylor on our roster. He had completely slipped my mind. You will make a lot of people around here very happy, because I can't say that we did absolutely nothing in the draft or FA to address the position. Literally millions if your fellow ES members will thank you for this!

[DC Lumber Co.]

Further bolstering the argument for making a nose out of what we have in-house, I found a similar article on AJ Francis by a Dolphins blogger. Noted he was impressed his rookie training camp and was among the last players cut by the Dolphins that year, didnt clear waivers because the Patriots signed him (always a good sign), and then poached-back by the Dolphins when they signed him to their 53 later that season. Guy is 6'5" - 330lbs

 

http://www.thephinsider.com/2015/2/6/7992185/the-curious-case-of-a-j-francis

 

Quote

Francis continued to impress in the 2014 training camp and preseason, working his way into an apparent second-string position behind Starks and Jared Odrick, as well as getting work with the starters. He landed on injured reserve, however, as preseason came to a close, following a knee injury sustained in the team's preseason game against the Atlanta Falcons.

 

Looks like he was getting into the starting rotation before his development was stunted due to injury. 

 

I know we love to instantly call BS on anything the FO/coaches say, and call anyone who isnt a marquee name "just-a-guy". But for the NT position moreso than any other, all of them are "JAGS", until they aren't. Don't forget that we developed the JAG out of Hampton into Chris Baker who could've been a good/great nose if he didn't refuse to play the position.

 

Unless they are the rare Vince Wilfork type 1st round prospects, all of the other NTs in the league seem to be late round/undrafted guys who require some development before they make an impact. We seemingly have two of the latter in AJ and Mbu to compete with Phil Taylor (a first rounder type but with injury concerns)

 

May the best one win the job, stash who we can on the PS. Keep the cycle going with someone like Pipkins.

[DC Lumber Co.]

And yet another article with quotes from Gruden today about liking what the Skins have in-house at NT (post-draft) that is sure to chap @Morneblade 's ass.

 

Quote

I feel good," Redskins coach Jay Gruden said of nose tackle after the draft. "I think a lot of people don’t know the guys we’ve had here or the guys there were on our practice squad."

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/jay-gruden-explains-why-redskins-didnt-target-nose-tackle-2017-draft

 

Also said Phil Taylor is looking great.

 

I'm a lot more confident after digging up and reading the articles in my last two posts on Mbu and AJ that we might actually have more than what people think at Nose. I also trust Tomsula will be able to quickly realize if none of them are starting-caliber if I'm wrong. If thats the case, we can bring in someone like Dan Williams or a similar roster-cut from around the league.

 

I don't think Tomsula will fail to speak up when it comes to roster eval time one way or the other. He knows what a NFL nose looks like. We might just be ok.

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

FWIW, I found a really great article on Joey Mbu. Was viewed as a potential draft steal and projected to be a 6th round pick back in 2015. Also had the longest arms out of any DL at the combine that year. Local kid to boot. Just became my favorite at NT behind Phil Taylor bouncing back from his injuries.

 

http://www.patspulpit.com/2015/3/19/8184503/bbs-next-hidden-gem-1-joey-mbu-nt-dt-houston

 

 

Maybe there is some truth to the coaching staff liking the chances of someone emerging out of the crop that we have at NT, especially with Tomsula coaching them up.

 

A projected 6th rounder back in 2015 with two years of NFL coaching and weight training might just be better than any of the late round prospects that we were so upset over not drafting this year.

 

Not much on him, but there was tape of game against Pitt. It was the whole game, which I like, gives you the good and the bad. The other game was against Cincy and their spread offense, so I went with the more run oriented, pro style offense.

 

Pitt's a pretty decent program, but I was not really impressed with Mbu here. He was left one on one with the Center a lot, and he did not win all that often. He did show decent range, and would pursue down the LoS and he was hussle player, which I really like from guys that big. And he did split a couple double teams. But most of the time he was one on one with the Center, and he was not winning. For the most part he was controlled by one guy, He was either redirected of just flat out stopped at the LOS and was moved back more times that I would have liked to have seen. he also had issues locating the ball.

 

 

[DC Lumber Co.]

I saw a much different player. Gotta factor in how much different the college game is too.

 

I think while he may not have always pushed the pocket, he rarely if ever got moved back himself. Single or double teamed. He clearly has the lower body to anchor. Like you mentioned, he also flashed a little swim move and ability to split double teams. 

 

Now add two years of an NFL weight room to those positives.

[Morneblade]

5 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

And yet another article with quotes from Gruden today about liking what the Skins have in-house at NT (post-draft) that is sure to chap @Morneblade 's ass.

 

 

http://www.csnmidatlantic.com/washington-redskins/jay-gruden-explains-why-redskins-didnt-target-nose-tackle-2017-draft

 

Also said Phil Taylor is looking great.

 

I'm a lot more confident after digging up and reading the articles in my last two posts on Mbu and AJ that we might actually have more than what people think at Nose. I also trust Tomsula will be able to quickly realize if none of them are starting-caliber if I'm wrong. If thats the case, we can bring in someone like Dan Williams or a similar roster-cut from around the league.

 

I don't think Tomsula will fail to speak up when it comes to roster eval time one way or the other. He knows what a NFL nose looks like. We might just be ok.

 

Won't chap my ass a bit. I usually don't wear them, but when I do, I go commando.

 

From what little I was able to look at, Mbu was unimpressive to me. He was not disruptive and was kept in check by Pitt's center most of the time, with no double teams. I could find Next to Nothing on A.J. Francis, but if Belicheat liked him that's a good thing. I would really like to see soem game film though.

 

On the other had, what I was able to see on Ondre Pipkins was good looking. From what I saw Ondre was more impressive from Mbu, but I would really like to have much more tape on both. But Ondre was disruptive and caused a lot of trouble for offenses. Single players could not handle him, and he was able to split double teams and anchor when he needed to. I really liked what I saw. Once again, thanks for reminding me of him,

 

Now, going to Phil Taylor. I really hope he is healthy. I really, really do. If he is, we're probably set there. 60 tackles and 4 sacks (rookie year) from a 335 NT is fantastic. I'll take 75% of that and be very happy. The guy was fantastic before injuries robbed him of 3 years. If we could get him at that level, and have Pipkins in reserve/rotation playing like I saw on the little bit of tape I was able to find.......my post count would drop dramatically and I would have to talk about something else for a change. And that would not be a bad thing. Not just for everyone else on ES, but even I get sick and tired of listening to myself go on and on about it. 

[Morneblade]

@DC Lumber Co. I'm heading off to bed, but thanks for the in depth discussion on our NT situation tonight. It was really fun, quite informative, and I learned quite a bit about about a couple guys we already have, and our most recent UDFA pickup. For me, it was a really good exchange of information and unlike I have seen it in some other conversations, extremely civil and respectful. I look forward to doing it again sometime.

 

Thanks again for the chat!

[Hail2theSkins24]

^^ Agreed! That was informative and knowledgeable just reading your interaction. I'm nowhere near satisfied with what we have, but it has me feeling a little better that there is potential on our 90 man roster. Nose tackle may arguably be the most anticipated position to watch in Training Camp ??

[ILikeBilly]

6 minutes ago, Hail2theSkins24 said:

^^ Agreed! That was informative and knowledgeable just reading your interaction. I'm nowhere near satisfied with what we have, but it has me feeling a little better that there is potential on our 90 man roster. Nose tackle may arguably be the most anticipated position to watch in Training Camp ??

I am looking forward to the CB and safety battles.  Especially if our 3rd round pickcan practice,  I think he will be on PUP though.

[DC Lumber Co.]

@Morneblade likewise. It's what keeps me coming back/contributing to ES.

 

Last nugget that could be worth noting on the situation is that Mbu was signed over both Phil Taylor and Terrance Knighton when all three were initially brought in for workouts with the team around the same time. Now that could mean they liked him better or that Phil Taylor either wasn't fully recovered from injury or wasn't in good shape at that particular time due to said injuries. 

 

Either way, I agree with @Hail2theSkins24. Not only will I closely be watching the training camp battle at NT, it will be one of the most important competitions on the roster.

[Morneblade]

50 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

I am looking forward to the CB and safety battles.  Especially if our 3rd round pickcan practice,  I think he will be on PUP though.

 

I know I said I was going to bed, but I started looking at (gasp) the late round CB's and Safeties we picked up. Jesus, I was really impressed with just about everyone. There are really going to be some serious battles there. I'm looking at some of the tape and thinking "we got this guy in the 7th?!" I know it was a really deep class for CB and S, but man, I'm looking at slot corner starters and guys that might be fighting for starting jobs elsewhere too. I feel like we stole bigtime in this draft. A couple of our current DB's better start bring their "A game" to practice every day, or they are not going to make final cuts. Joshua Holsey is no joke. He is going to see action early and often. Josh Harvey-Clemons, I don't know what they plan to do with him, and I don't know what his 40 time is, but he was always around the ball and he was always making plays. High football IQ too, jumped routes for INT's, looked good in zone and man to man, not a big hitter but he did not miss tackles. At. All. Took good angles in run support and didn't loose track of the ball (except for one time I saw). Heard because he's 6'4 they might want to make a dimebacker out of him, but he looked natural in space. If we can keep him off the Ganja really good looking player. To be perfectly honest, the only guy I question is Montae Nicholson. Great measurables, but he didn't seem to be much of a player. I can't say that about anyone else we drafted. We killed this draft.

 

Killed it.

 

Obviously we'll need a couple years to really now, but right now? Killed it.

 

[skinny21]

5 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

I know I said I was going to bed, but I started looking at (gasp) the late round CB's and Safeties we picked up. Jesus, I was really impressed with just about everyone. There are really going to be some serious battles there. I'm looking at some of the tape and thinking "we got this guy in the 7th?!" I know it was a really deep class for CB and S, but man, I'm looking at slot corner starters and guys that might be fighting for starting jobs elsewhere too. I feel like we stole bigtime in this draft. A couple of our current DB's better start bring their "A game" to practice every day, or they are not going to make final cuts. Joshua Holsey is no joke. He is going to see action early and often. Josh Harvey-Clemons, I don't know what they plan to do with him, and I don't know what his 40 time is, but he was always around the ball and he was always making plays. High football IQ too, jumped routes for INT's, looked good in zone and man to man, not a big hitter but he did not miss tackles. At. All. Took good angles in run support and didn't loose track of the ball (except for one time I saw). Heard because he's 6'4 they might want to make a dimebacker out of him, but he looked natural in space. If we can keep him off the Ganja really good looking player. To be perfectly honest, the only guy I question is Montae Nicholson. Great measurables, but he didn't seem to be much of a player. I can't say that about anyone else we drafted. We killed this draft.

 

Killed it.

 

Obviously we'll need a couple years to really now, but right now? Killed it.

 

Knowing (a bit) of your background, I'm happy to hear this.  I had similar thoughts on our late rounders.  Hope we don't wind up with another Tevin Mitchell situation if they don't make the 53.  From my perspective, if they'd picked up another Dlineman (well... NT) instead of Nicolson, this draft would have been an easy A.  And given what I've seen of those late rounders, I'm doubting the Nicholson pick a bit less.  

 

Cycling back to NT... great convo guys and thanks for sharing the info on these guys.  Who knows how the rest of the offseason goes (it's a grind after all), but presumably Taylor is healthy right now (and motivated), and that could be a big win for the staff.  

[Koolblue13]

Yeah, after Tomlinson went off the board to the Giants, I really thought a NT run was about to happen, but we took Nicholson instead of Qualls, who went to Philly. Bummer.

[DC Lumber Co.]

@Morneblade

 

Yeah it was reported that Harvey-Clemons will be listed as a LB on the roster so it looks like he will be primarily a dimebacker

[carex]

5 minutes ago, DC Lumber Co. said:

@Morneblade

 

Yeah it was reported that Harvey-Clemons will be listed as a LB on the roster so it looks like he will be primarily a dimebacker

 

that is so weird to me.  you're getting some plays theoretically but by giving a roster spot to someone who can only play in certain situations. If injury ever forces him into a regular role you're basically ****ed because he's totally wrong for the regular role people in that spot are expected to play

[skinny21]

@carex Don't really disagree, but I will say it's the same thing we did with Cravens, and he certainly wasn't going to start at ILB or S for us (last year anyway).  

[carex]

25 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@carex Don't really disagree, but I will say it's the same thing we did with Cravens, and he certainly wasn't going to start at ILB or S for us (last year anyway).  

 

well Cravens was always going to end up at safety.

[skinny21]

1 hour ago, carex said:

 

well Cravens was always going to end up at safety.

Yes... but that might be their plan for Clemons too.  

 

 

[Est.1974]

Said this previously but our discussion with the Jets about Richardson were prior or during day 2 of the draft. That indicates we are willing to take on board another DL, strange that we didn't take a go at one on day 3 of the draft.

 

Indicates to me either the Richardson deal is still burning away or we will bring another vet in like Williams.  

[carex]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Said this previously but our discussion with the Jets about Richardson were prior or during day 2 of the draft. That indicates we are willing to take on board another DL, strange that we didn't take a go at one on day 3 of the draft.

 

Indicates to me either the Richardson deal is still burning away or we will bring another vet in like Williams.  

 

I really don't think so.  The guys at his talent level are gone and he costs to much.  Trying to get a certain guy if you can isn't the same at looking anyone

[JaxJoe]

15 hours ago, Morneblade said:

I wish I could find more tap on him

Player Bio: http://www.texastech.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3283

 

Joe Mixon tape against Texas Tech.  Ondre Pipkins is #9.

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/joe-mixon-vs-texas-tech-2016/

[Thinking Skins]

I was just looking at nfl.com player grades for last year's draft and found that Matt Ioannidos and Billings had very similar numbers.

 

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/andrew-billings?id=2555267

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2016/profiles/matthew-ioannidis?id=2555240

 

Matthew Ioannidis (DT)

HT: 6'3" WT: 299LBS.

POSITION: DT

SCHOOL: Temple

ARM LENGTH: 32 3/8"

HANDS: 10 1/8"

• 40 YARD DASH: 5.03 SEC
• BENCH PRESS: 32 REPS
• VERTICAL JUMP: 28.0 INCH
• BROAD JUMP: 108.0 INCH
• 3 CONE DRILL: 7.78 SEC
• 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.71 SEC

 

 

Andrew Billings (NT)

HT: 6'1" WT: 311LBS.

POSITION: NT

SCHOOL: Baylor

ARM LENGTH: 33"

HANDS: 10"

• 40 YARD DASH: 5.05 SEC
• BENCH PRESS: 31 REPS
• VERTICAL JUMP: 27.5 INCH
• BROAD JUMP: 113.0 INCH
• 3 CONE DRILL: 8.05 SEC
• 20 YARD SHUTTLE: 4.82 SEC

 

The analysis is a bit different, with Billings getting a higher grade but Ioannidis's grade is higher than most of the guys from this year's draft class.  Plus it had him projected as a DT/DE. We're playing him at NT. But i was most impressed with his bench press numbers, with a high for the combine, at least at his position. He's still just a guy,  but i wouldn't count him out.  

 

[carex]

okay, I know the Skins are pretty low on the compensation draft picks list having signed seven guys after losing five, but I was wondering, if you cut FAs does that end up making a difference.  If for example we cut Carter and Quick does that change things?

[zoony]

Whats the latest on sheldon richardson?

[clskinsfan]

1 hour ago, carex said:

okay, I know the Skins are pretty low on the compensation draft picks list having signed seven guys after losing five, but I was wondering, if you cut FAs does that end up making a difference.  If for example we cut Carter and Quick does that change things?

 

https://overthecap.com/the-basics-and-methodology-of-projecting-the-nfls-compensatory-draft-picks/

 

s the NFL explains, compensatory picks are awarded to teams that lose more or better compensatory free agents than they acquire. The number of picks a team can receive equals the net loss of compensatory free agents, up to a maximum of four. Compensatory free agents are determined by a secret formula based on salary, playing time and postseason honors. Not every free agent lost or signed is covered by the formula.

Although the formula has never been revealed, by studying the compensatory picks that have been awarded since they began in 1994, I’ve determined that the primary factor in the value of the picks awarded is the average annual value of the contract the player signed with his new team, with an adjustment for playing time and a smaller adjustment for postseason honors.

 

In order to qualify for the comp equation, a player must have been a true Unrestricted Free Agent whose contract had expired or was voided after the previous season (i.e., he cannot have been released by his old team); he must sign during the UFA signing period (which ended July 27 last year); if he signs after June 1[*], he must have been tendered a June 1 qualifying offer by his old team; his compensatory value or contract value must be above a specific minimum amount; and he cannot have been permanently released by his new team before a certain point in the season (which seems to be after Week 10) or, possibly, before getting a certain amount of playing time, unless he was claimed off waivers by another team.