Burgold

Standing during the Pledge or National Anthem

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3 minutes ago, spjunkies said:

You can thank the idiot in 1600 for people thinking they have the right to do garbage like this.

He has done an excellent job of taking an act that was intended to fuel a conversation about social injustice and ****izing it in order to create division and hate.

9 hours ago, Burgold said:

Are you really saying, "If you disagree with me let's fight?"

 

As a social worker, you know about how to accelerate and decelerate conflict. You need to bring some of those skills to bear. I haven't followed the entire chain of communication and don't know if you have been wronged or how badly, but...

 

Use your words people or if you can't use your words... take a deep breath and count to ten. That probably goes for both sides.

Where I come from, we'd settle this with an IQ test.

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11 hours ago, DM72 said:

If you ever needed a reason to boycott the NFL.

 

If they pass this potential rule that it would now become a requirement for players to stand during the National Anthem, that would do it.

I'll ask Directv to remove Sunday Ticket, even though it's free. Eff the NFL and even the Skins.

 

11 hours ago, Momma There Goes That Man said:

Well, he won. 

Only if the players punk out.

 

10 hours ago, abdcskins said:

...However, I also strongly believe that if you don't like the country you are living in then you should strongly consider moving somewhere else.  That is another right afforded to Americans and human beings everywhere, the freedom of movement.

So for the record, you're saying that if the colonists didn't want to speak Navaho, Cherokee, live in tepees, and more importantly, pay King George's taxes, they should have just gotten the hell out of the country? Love it or leave it! Lousy un-American founding fathers.? I'll eagerly await your response.

 

7 hours ago, skinsfan999 said:

I wonder how all of this will be seen 100 years from now. I thought freedom of speech was in the first amendment, but apparently it doesn't matter anymore. We are headed down a dark path, every day I am more and more reminded of 1984 by George Orwell. 

Star Wars also. Another take on the theme of a benevolent political entity turning into a fascist dictatorship.

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8 hours ago, The Sisko said:

Star Wars also. Another take on the theme of a benevolent political entity turning into a fascist dictatorship.

 

I wouldn't go that far, but this certainly meets at least two of the checkmarks of fascism, nation over individual and suppression of the opposition. People should be able to do what they want during the anthem, not be pressured to fall in line or face discipline. 

 

What's next? Fans get thrown out of the stadium if they don't stand and take off their hats? 

Edited by skinsfan999
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10 minutes ago, skinsfan999 said:

 

I wouldn't go that far, but this certainly meets at least two of the checkmarks of fascism, nation over individual and suppression of the opposition. People should be able to do what they want during the anthem, not be pressured to fall in line or face discipline. 

 

What's next? Fans get thrown out of the stadium if they don't stand and take off their hats? 

 

 

Oh its coming. 

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16 minutes ago, skinsfan999 said:

 

I wouldn't go that far, but this certainly meets at least two of the checkmarks of fascism, nation over individual and suppression of the opposition. People should be able to do what they want during the anthem, not be pressured to fall in line or face discipline. 

 

What's next? Fans get thrown out of the stadium if they don't stand and take off their hats? 

Fans aren't employed by the team.

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6 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

Fans aren't employed by the team.

 

Had a dude tell me to leave Nats Park cause I wasn't doing what he found patriotic during the National Anthem last year. Of course I didn't listen and of course he didn't want to escalate it any farther....just told me i dont belong here.....but its only gotten worse since then. 

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13 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Had a dude tell me to leave Nats Park cause I wasn't doing what he found patriotic during the National Anthem last year. Of course I didn't listen and of course he didn't want to escalate it any farther....just told me i dont belong here.....but its only gotten worse since then. 

 

Act hard when you're behind a keyboard, or calling into a radio station, but when it's that time, sternly ask them, and let them know you mean business :ols:

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17 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Had a dude tell me to leave Nats Park cause I wasn't doing what he found patriotic during the National Anthem last year. Of course I didn't listen and of course he didn't want to escalate it any farther....just told me i dont belong here.....but its only gotten worse since then. 

Ive seen people call others out at events for talking or doing things when they were playing the anthem (that's been going on for years, long before Kap).  In high school, at least where I went, you'd have administrators paying attention to the students in the crowd and they'd scold them if they weren't being respectful or acting up.

 

You have 2 parts to this, 1 is perfectly fine and not against the first amendment and the other is against the first amendment.  Government interfering with businesses providing rights to free speech (as we saw here) but the other side is that the NFL has the ability to set these rules without infringing on free speech.  The big issue is the government getting involved in a corporation regarding free speech.

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Man, I've stayed out of this mess, but avoidance/silence has been made harder by the day.  So... some thoughts...

 

Keith Olberman made an interesting point about protests being part of the bedrock of our country and that protesting shows a desire to fix a problem with the country, which should be seen as patriotic.  

 

Of course, I understand that most people's issue here isn't with the protesting, but with how it relates to the flag/anthem.  It's still an interesting response to the "if you don't like it, then leave" narrative.  

 

 

I still think that the main main driver of the conversation stems from what lens you're looking through.  If you believe there is significant racial injustice (particularly as it pertains to treatment by law enforcement), you're far more likely to sympathize with the kneeling players and not see any disrespect.  And the reverse.  

 

And then there are the people that essentially accept being told what to believe by whichever media outlet they consume, or friends they are surrounded by.  

 

 

Although I think it's horse hockey to feel these players are disrespecting the military, I also think people that believe that have every right to do so.  Now, if they are also part of the population that rails against the PC norms... they should take that into consideration when they declare kneeling offensive.  

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23 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

Ive seen people call others out at events for talking or doing things when they were playing the anthem (that's been going on for years, long before Kap).  In high school, at least where I went, you'd have administrators paying attention to the students in the crowd and they'd scold them if they weren't being respectful or acting up.

 

You have 2 parts to this, 1 is perfectly fine and not against the first amendment and the other is against the first amendment.  Government interfering with businesses providing rights to free speech (as we saw here) but the other side is that the NFL has the ability to set these rules without infringing on free speech.  The big issue is the government getting involved in a corporation regarding free speech.

 

Oh yea. They took it pretty serious when I was in school too I remember. Not high school, but before that they were pretty strict. 

 

The NFL totally has the right. I disagree with it....not a fan of this at all and wondering if its even worth my time anymore (for multiple reasons, not just this), but they have the right. Its not even worth arguing over anymore. That fight has been won. 

 

Randos cant say **** to me though. I know my rights and unless you are the law you really cant tell me what to do. 

 

 

EDIT: Government using their influence to tell corporations what to do is how freedom dies. I hate to say it but things are changing in a baaad way bro

Edited by Llevron
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Watch this and see how it applies socially to our country and this conversation in particular. 

 

Then apply to the dotards still following trumps orders. This is literally what I think of every time someone tells me something stupid like we stand for the Anthem because it represents this country

 

 

 

 

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I so badly wish that was me in that video. 

I'd really like to know how I'd react if I was in that situation. 

I'm 99 percent certain that there's no way I'd just stand up at the tone without someone telling me why we were doing it but that nagging one percent makes me want to know for sure. 

 

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4 minutes ago, redskinss said:

I so badly wish that was me in that video. 

I'd really like to know how I'd react if I was in that situation. 

I'm 99 percent certain that there's no way I'd just stand up at the tone without someone telling me why we were doing it but that nagging one percent makes me want to know for sure. 

 

 

Right? 

 

Im way too lazy to just stand up for stuff. That's half of the reason I take a knee now. 

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2 hours ago, Llevron said:

Watch this and see how it applies socially to our country and this conversation in particular. 

 

Then apply to the dotards still following trumps orders. This is literally what I think of every time someone tells me something stupid like we stand for the Anthem because it represents this country

 

 

 

 

i agree about the video (though i'd add that all kinds of people discussing all kinds of issues are guilty of this kind of thing).

 

as far as the 'why; we stand for the anthem, that strikes me as more of an individual thing though. to many people (perhaps most), it does represent the country. (unless i misinterpreted it)

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Just now, grego said:

 

i agree about the video (though i'd add that all kinds of people discussing all kinds of issues are guilty of this kind of thing).

 

as far as the 'why; we stand for the anthem, that strikes me as more of an individual thing though. to many people (perhaps most), it does represent the country. (unless i misinterpreted it)

 

Oh yea..... that logic (or group think) can be applied to lots and lots of things. I feel like our politics in general is group think these days. Whens the last time you been on Facebook? Its so thick there you can visually see it. See the same thing at football games. 'You are supposed to jump up and down when this song comes on' 'Why?' 'Casue everyone else is' - Basically every VTech game I go to. 

 

We disagree on the individuality of standing for the Anthem though. I feel like if it was an individual thing, you wouldn't have so many people mad about your individual choice of how to handle it. And yes, to many people it does represent the country. I just argue that many dont have any idea why, which is the point of the video. Shes doing things, she feels good about doing these things, she thinks she and other should be doing these things......she has no clue why. I think its super applicable. 

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11 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Oh yea..... that logic (or group think) can be applied to lots and lots of things. I feel like our politics in general is group think these days. Whens the last time you been on Facebook? Its so thick there you can visually see it. See the same thing at football games. 'You are supposed to jump up and down when this song comes on' 'Why?' 'Casue everyone else is' - Basically every VTech game I go to. 

 

We disagree on the individuality of standing for the Anthem though. I feel like if it was an individual thing, you wouldn't have so many people mad about your individual choice of how to handle it. And yes, to many people it does represent the country. I just argue that many dont have any idea why, which is the point of the video. Shes doing things, she feels good about doing these things, she thinks she and other should be doing these things......she has no clue why. I think its super applicable. 

 

 

ahhh yeah. totally get that. when i see people doing things for no other reason than....just because....it kinda drives me nuts. had an old girlfriend take me to her catholic church (i wasnt catholic). pretty soon, everybodys randomly kneeling, then sitting, then saying stuff in unison, then saying stuff in unison in latin, then crossing themselves. hey, why are we doing this? i dunno. just shut up and do it. grrrrr. and this was after i got yelled at by a priest in boot camp for having gloves on when he tried to put a wafer in my hand (which i chose as an alternative to having some strange man stick some food in my mouth- kind of a no brainer). 

 

guess i was always the kid who said 'why' to every answer.

 

now, i get that, ultimately, there is a 'reason' for pretty much any ritual. its just usually a dumb one, imo.

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2 hours ago, Llevron said:

NFL totally has the right. I disagree with it....not a fan of this at all and wondering if its even worth my time anymore (for multiple reasons, not just this), but they have the right. Its not even worth arguing over anymore. That fight has been won. 

 

You have a right not to watch.  Players have the right not to play.  The nfl has the right to continue to step on its own penis with anything and everything they possibly can.  Other sociopathic billionairez have the right to start up a protest league.  We all have the right to watch the entir cluster**** unfold before our eyes

 

Personally, I will continue to think of Kaepernick as an immature, naieve little boy who lacks any kind of wisdom or life experience, and simultaneously watch the games on Sunday and not pay attention to any of this.  I had a similar strategy when my kids used to throw temper tantrums in their 2s and 3s.

 

You and anyone else, of course, have a right to call me insensitive.  World keeps rotating, democracy holds, freedom assured.

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1 minute ago, zoony said:

You and anyone else, of course, have a right to call me insensitive.  World keeps rotating, democracy holds, freedom assured.

 

I dont really care to be honest with you bro. Watch your football. I cant convince my homies I know I cant convince you and im not even trying to. And its your right to be insensitive lol 

 

Half of the reason I may stop watching is because when the Redskins lose it literally ruins my weekend. **** aint healthy and....well we lose often. 

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abdcskins, I think you misunderstood me. I want the players to think about how anyone dictating how they react to the pledge or the anthem is WRONG.

 

That's how dictatorships start, with extreme nationalism supported by mandatory pledges (whether to flags, parties, or persons), or standing for same, and if not being branded unpatriotic.

 

That's what I meant.  Pretty much diametrically opposed to what you've posted here.

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7 minutes ago, zoony said:

Personally, I will continue to think of Kaepernick as an immature, naieve little boy who lacks any kind of wisdom or life experience, and simultaneously watch the games on Sunday and not pay attention to any of this.  

 

I personally will continue to think you could use a good, brotherly hug and an "It'll be alright, we'll get through this together"

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33 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

abdcskins, I think you misunderstood me. I want the players to think about how anyone dictating how they react to the pledge or the anthem is WRONG.

 

That's how dictatorships start, with extreme nationalism supported by mandatory pledges (whether to flags, parties, or persons), or standing for same, and if not being branded unpatriotic.

 

That's what I meant.  Pretty much diametrically opposed to what you've posted here.

 

No I agree with you. Players should be allowed to protest.

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