A fundamental problem: We don't understand what kind of bad owner Snyder is

[TheLongshot]

Honestly, just like Maximus planned to do in Gladiator, what Gibbs should have done once he was given full control was:

 

- Immediately fired himself as head coach

- Insisted on a 10-year contract extension as Team President

- Fired Cerrato and hired a true GM

- Worked with that GM to hire a young, dynamic coaching staff

- Given Snyder all of his game film from the 1980s to keep him occupied for a couple years while we built the organization the right way

 

What Gibbs can do (other than coach, which he does very well too) is run an organization and identify the right people. He would have been the perfect figurehead to oversee a functional and productive franchise over the past decade. 

 

Problem with everything you said is that Gibbs actually liked working with Vinny, and recommended him for his promotion.

 

Personally, I think you are a bad owner until you are not.  (and it works the other way around too, for example, Peter Angelos)  If you get the right people in place and the wins come, a lot will be forgiven.  It hasn't happened yet, but it hasn't because the man hasn't tried.  While the learning curve has been slow at times, the man has learned.  That being said, being successful isn't about bringing in coaches and players who have been successful elsewhere, but building that chemistry that feeds itself. 

 

I was disappointed that he reverted a bit with the hiring of Shanahan, basically making the same mistake he did hiring Gibbs, with worse results.  Really, what we got this year is what I wanted 5 years ago, with Allen coming in and choosing his guy and his staff.  Instead, Allen's image is tarnished, being viewed as a figurehead (even tho I don't think he is.)

 

So, moving forward, tough decisions need to be made by Allen and Gruden.  Allen needs to decide if Scott Campbell needs to be removed after a decade of mediocre results from his department.  Gruden needs to decide what players deserve to be on this team, and which coaches deserve to stay on.

 

And Snyder should sit there and let his football people make their decisions.

[GoldSkinner]

I still don't understand how this is all his fault. Yeah the defense and ST underperformed, and the Oline been crappy for a decade now, but that doesn't mean he is to blame for that.

 

I'll never understand this defense. "Snyder isn't the one missing the tackles"; "Snyder isn't responsible for the horrid D"

 

SNYDER brought in the BUMS who make the calls for the ST, defense, and Oline! It all starts with him! He's the d*** source and the root of our problems! When BUMS like Riley miss easy tackles that result in TDs, it goes back to the coaching and the front office responsible for training/signing this BUM, both of whom are SNYDER'S responsibility! If a store manager hires a supervisor who then hires a snot-nosed, pimple-faced nerd who out of the blue one day decides to take a dump on the floor of aisle 11, sure the manager gets a pass. Happens a second time, the supervisor get canned. Happens a third time, then you can safely assume the store manager doesn't have a CLUE outside of hiring supervisors who hire turd-dropping employees!

[TheLongshot]

I would agree.

 

Dan Snyder knows nothing about football, and he doesnt know how to hire someone who does.  The problem with the Redskins is, has been, and continues to be people are hired based on a buddy buddy name system.  Bruce Allen was hired because his dad was famous with the Redskins.  Then, Gruden was hired because he had ties to Allen at the Bucs.  Haslett was kept on because he had ties to Gruden in the AFL.  Well gosh, everybody just knows everybody, so I guess parties are great.  Meanwhile, this franchise sucks.  

 

Until the day that Dan Snyder gets really lucky with the right hire, when he tries to mess it up but somehow gets a guy who knows football, and has NO RELATION to the Redskins franchise, this franchise will be terrible.  Bruce Allen is a terrible GM, and he is the guy who has made these bad football moves.  Any guy off the street has seen for years our problems are at the offensive line, and defensive secondary, and yet we get a high priced receiver and put young QB's in a position to fail behind a heavy pass rush.  RG3 is a better QB than Russel Wilson, but no one will ever know because Seattle knows how to develop a young QB and take the pressure off of him.

 

For some reason, fans seem to want someone who isn't close to the owner and doesn't associate with him to run the organization, when really that guy should be reflective of the owner's will.  Hell, the former description could describe Shanahan, and we have seen how that worked out.  Hell, your complaints about Bruce are really complaints about Shanahan: he arrived here with OL and the secondary being the team's biggest issues, and he left with them both still being issues.  Bruce at least tried to address the OL with a couple of draft picks and a FA signing, but I wouldn't expect it to be resolved overnight.

[Destino]

http://drivenforward.com/blog/dan-snyders-redskin-toxic-culture

 

I really hope that isn't true.  If I was another parent in that community there is no way I'd be able to stop myself from breaking those rules the first time I saw him. 

[abdcskins]

http://drivenforward.com/blog/dan-snyders-redskin-toxic-culture

 

Wow.  That sort of makes me hate him.

 

My stepfather told me a story of someone who worked at Redskins camp and they weren't allowed to look Snyder in the eyes when talkign to him?  I really couldn't believe that and hope that isn't true.

 

I'm starting to think Daniel Snyder is indeed a bad owner with a vile attitude and ego.

 

*edit* I just googled, "Daniel Snyder vanilla ice cream," out of interest.  Holy **** what an asshole.  That guy really thinks he knows it all.  What childish behavior.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

From that blog post:

 

I have two personal Dan Snyder encounter. My kids went to a fabulous school in Maryland. We had been part of that community for years when a horrible thing happened. Dan Snyder enrolled his daughter and became a fellow parent at that school. He demanded 2 rules when he enrolled his child: 1. The other parents weren’t allowed to approach the "Big Man" and, 2. when we were in a conversation with him we were to address him as Mr Snyder (Mr Snyder my ass. Money doesn’t buy you respect. Respect is earned).

 

Now I’ll tell you that Danny boy wasn’t the most famous parent in the school nor was he the wealthiest. We had Presidential nephews and nieces, Ambassadors kids, and more than 1 Forbes 500 parents. Bill Marriott, CEO of Marriott had multiple grandchildren in the school. During parent visiting days, Bill was one of us. Sitting on the floor with the kids and the parents. Insecure and supercilious Dan would be in the back of the room, in his blue suit, white shirt, red tie, big shot crossed arms stance, and chauffeur with the car running in the fire lane of the school. Danny didn’t fit in, he was not compatible with our culture and fortunately he opted out after 1 year. Thanks Danny!

 

I would dismiss this if I haven't heard this same kind of thing from several different directions over the years.

 

Since Karl Swanson is reading this thread, I would love to know to what extent the "Call him Mr. Snyder" and "Don't make eye contact" stories I've heard are true.

[Corcaigh]

 

Since Karl Swanson is reading this thread, I would love to know to what extent the "Call him Mr. Snyder" and "Don't make eye contact" stories I've heard are true.

 

You have to remember that Karl Swanson was responsible for Dan's image for many years. How would you like that on your resume? 

[Thinking Skins]

Has anyone looked at the front office structure of other clubs.  I'll limit this just to the division because I don't have time right now to go through all teams but this is what it looks like JUST from a scouting perspective (not including directors of player or pro personnel, ONLY scouts plus assistants)

 

Giants:  3 executive scouts; 6 area scouts; 1 Blesto scout; 2 pro scouts; 1 assist. dir. pro personnel; 1 assistant, pro personnel

 

Eagles: 1 sr. football advisor; 1 AD player personnel; 1 AD college scouting; 1 pro scout; 5 area scouts; 2 assistant area scouts; 1 college scouting coordinator; 1 pro personnel assistant

 

Cowboys: I didn't see the scouting department listed on their website.  But my guess is that it's slightly more robust than ours.

 

Redskins: 1 pro scout; 4 area scouts; 1 scout (non classified); 1 blesto scout

 

So yeah, we're slightly outmatched just in the division.  

 

What's your reference on this? I've been looking into this and I see that Bruce Allen hired promoted two guys to pro scouts in July of 2014. Shanny/Allen fired our two pro scouts in 2010, so I'm counting at least 2 pro scouts for us right now.

[AdmiralWaugh]

From that blog post:

 

 

 

I would dismiss this if I haven't heard this same kind of thing from several different directions over the years.

 

Since Karl Swanson is reading this thread, I would love to know to what extent the "Call him Mr. Snyder" and "Don't make eye contact" stories I've heard are true.

 

I'll take the bait.

 

I first met Dan in 1997. I looked him in the eye, and he greeted me with his usual "I'm Dan."

 

I never heard anyone instruct anyone that they must call him Mr. Snyder. I never heard anyone tell anyone they shouldn't make eye contact.

 

Frankly, were it otherwise I would have been one of the people supposedly instructed in how to tell people to address or approach the man. Never happened.

 

Urban legend.

[Boss_Hogg]

I'll take the bait.

 

I first met Dan in 1997. I looked him in the eye, and he greeted me with his usual "I'm Dan."

 

I never heard anyone instruct anyone that they must call him Mr. Snyder. I never heard anyone tell anyone they shouldn't make eye contact.

 

Frankly, were it otherwise I would have been one of the people supposedly instructed in how to address or approach the man. Never happened.

 

Urban legend.

 

Interesting, then why do the players refer to him as "Mr. Snyder" in interviews?

[21 always]

Cant wait for the impending take over of our stadium the last 2 home games vs dallas and philly...... ugh!

[daveakl]

Interesting, then why do the players refer to him as "Mr. Snyder" in interviews?

probably the same reason players say Mr Kraft and Rooney instead of Bob and Art

[Mr. Sinister]

I try to stay away from the personal stuff with Snyder because I don't know him and I sometimes wonder if it's piling on out of frustration by fans and mob mentality from media. Or maybe he really is Lucifer himself? I don't know. But if he really is a rotten person to the core it's unlikely that's suddenly changing anytime soon. So instead I just hope if and when we back into something good that he recognizes it and just let's them do their thing. I think he probably would.

I find it hilariously ironic that you are cautious when it comes to Snyder, yet you start numerous threads on Griffin and take every dumb article and Thom Loverro-ish comment and run with it like Usain Bolt.

That's funny.

[FrFan]

http://drivenforward.com/blog/dan-snyders-redskin-toxic-culture

The Cranky Redskins Fan's Guide to Dan Snyder

 

"American Enterprise Institute: Conservative thinktank that summed up Snyder’s football operation as a “leading exemplar of this tendency toward irrationality” in a 2006 report. Kevin Hassett, director of economic policy studies at AEI, cited Snyder for running a “seriously mismanaged” operation. “I used the Redskins because they’re the most frightening example of a team that hadn’t thought through the simple economics of pro football,” Hassett said at the time. “The problems of running a pro football team are right out of the textbooks: With the salary cap, everybody’s got the same amount of money to spend, so let’s see what you’re going to do with your money. The big signing is counter to the economics of pro football. Over time, [snyder is] spending the same amount of money as everybody else, but he’s spending it irrationally. I think they’re years away from correcting the mistakes they’ve made.”"

[kleese]

I find it hilariously ironic that you are cautious when it comes to Snyder, yet you start numerous threads on Griffin and take every dumb article and Thom Loverro-ish comment and run with it like Usain Bolt.

That's funny.

I've never based any of my critique of RG3 on anything but my own observations. And I've never drawn any conclusions of RG3 on the type of person he is...As a matter of fact I get the impression Robert is a really good dude and I've said that over and over again. I find some of antics annoying and I think it caused a distraction last year. If you want to connect those dots to me hating him or thinking he's an awful person that's your deal.

[Boss_Hogg]

probably the same reason players say Mr Kraft and Rooney instead of Bob and Art

 

Art and Bob have earned that respect.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

I'll take the bait.

 

I first met Dan in 1997. I looked him in the eye, and he greeted me with his usual "I'm Dan."

 

I never heard anyone instruct anyone that they must call him Mr. Snyder. I never heard anyone tell anyone they shouldn't make eye contact.

 

Frankly, were it otherwise I would have been one of the people supposedly instructed in how to address or approach the man. Never happened.

 

Urban legend.

 

 

In all seriousness, why do you think Snyder is so very hated among such a huge cross-section of people? I mean, you were his PR guy so I assume you had to deal with this problem on a daily basis.

 

It can't just be youth, money, and losing. All is forgiven because of the titles, but Robert Kraft threatened to move the Patriots, and he never received the vitriol Snyder does. The Yorks were legitimately cheap and sleazy for a decade and you never heard a peep. Even the mocking of Jerry Jones is done is something of "That ol' rascal way." And he's being accused of sexual assault by a woman who has pictures of him partying in a bathroom with strippers.

Art and Bob have earned that respect.

 

They are also a million years old.

 

I don't have a problem with the players calling him "Mister." That's perfectly normal. Derek Jeter was praised for that for 20 years.

 

But that blog post is not the only place I've heard the "EVERYONE" must call him Mr. Snyder story.

[pjfootballer]

probably the same reason players say Mr Kraft and Rooney instead of Bob and Art

Or the same way Gibbs would call JKC, Mr Cooke.

[TheLongshot]

In all seriousness, why do you think Snyder is so very hated among such a huge cross-section of people? I mean, you were his PR guy so I assume you had to deal with this problem on a daily basis.

 

Part of it is first impressions.  Snyder has made a series of mistakes early on that really soured people on him.  Given how out front he has been with the team, such things are magnified. Also part of it is the local media not having much love for Snyder and himself heavy handedly defending himself. I'm not going to be one who dismisses all the bad things said about him.  That being said, that in itself doesn't make him a bad owner, just one who is better off staying out of the limelight.

 

BTW, Snyder isn't the only owner who gets the ire of fans:

 

 

http://www.whodeyrevolution.com/whodeyrevolution/2008/11/thank-you-bengals-fans-billboards-will-be-up-for-2-months.html

[Fred Jones]

All you have to do is look at the product.  Since he took over this franchise has generally failed.  And, one could say that 1-5 just shows what the near future holds.

 

The common denominator is Dan.  If you are saying it is not Dan's fault than I guess you are saying it is everyone that worked or works for him except Dan.  So, why is it not the owners fault?

[Chachie]

He's had legends like Joe Jackson Gibbs (fist raised high) and Mike Shanahan.

 

He's had solid football minds like Marty Schottenheimer, Norv Turner, and Marvin Lewis.

 

He's had (and acquired) a buttload of 1st round draft picks.

 

He's basically had a treasure chest of reasons why any franchise would at least be a perennial playoff competitor. I'm not hanging his rep on Super Bowl. Super Bowl is a long-shot for at least 80% of the teams in this league no matter how hot they get. Forget about Super Bowl. I'm just stressing solid ingredients that any owner who truly cultivates a positive environment and is mentally up to the endeavor can mold into a tough squad. 

 

 

One can make an argument WHY any of the above-listed items can fail on their own and during their own tenure here. One can whip out the Vinny or drop the "Dan's not involved so it's not him" grenade. However, standing right behind every single one of those items (you can't see him cuz he's short) throughout the entire stretch is the owner. He doesn't have it.

 

I know he wants it. I know he loves the team and I... think... he loves the fans. I don't question his commitment. I'm just saying he doesn't have it. It's his car and he can't even find competitiveness with a GPS.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Mike Brown is not generally well liked for good reasons. He inherited the team from his beloved father, ran it into the ground for 20 years while making a fortune, and raped the taxpayers of Hamilton County. Mike Brown's behavior over the past 20 years has bordered on criminal fraud at times.

 

But he's not well like locally. EVERYONE hates Dan Snyder. He gets mocked on national broadcasts. He gets mocked by other team's broadcasters. Christ, he's enough of a punching bag to be a character on South Park. (Arthur Blank looks like a character out of a Hammer Horror film but he's never going to get lampooned like that).

 

 People know the dude. And do not like him.

[Leonard Washington]

I'm getting tired of complaining about the one thing that can't be changed.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I'm getting tired of complaining about the one thing that can't be changed.

None of the options are particularly appealing. Complain about the owner who won't be leaving? Bend over and take it? Lie to ourselves and say it's not his fault? Stop caring?

We are stuck in hell.

[PartyPosse]

Mike Brown is not generally well liked for good reasons. He inherited the team from his beloved father, ran it into the ground for 20 years while making a fortune, and raped the taxpayers of Hamilton County. Mike Brown's behavior over the past 20 years has bordered on criminal fraud at times.

 

But he's not well like locally. EVERYONE hates Dan Snyder. He gets mocked on national broadcasts. He gets mocked by other team's broadcasters. Christ, he's enough of a punching bag to be a character on South Park. (Arthur Blank looks like a character out of a Hammer Horror film but he's never going to get lampooned like that).

 

 People know the dude. And do not like him.

The same reason people bash Justin Bieber and for a while Tom Cruise - it's easy to do.