grego Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 why the hell is kevin sheehan constantly talking about mike and kyle? we 'should have stuck with them'? its everyday on 980. youve gotta be kidding me. short, selective memories, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It baffles me that there are Snyder apologists that number even in the double digits on this board. I've fallen for Snyder's magic show one too many times. From now on, 3 winning seasons in a row will be the minimum standard I will use to change my mind on him. I'm not sure winning should be your criteria. If DS is who many think he is, then he will likely always be that way. My hope is that we win someday sort of in spite of those flaws. Meaning he finally lucks into the right pieces and we sustain success for awhile with them. Had Donald Sterling not gotten caught on tape running his mouth, he'd still be the owner of the Clippers and they'd still be one of the best/most exciting/most interesting teams in the NBA. And he'd still be the rotten owner he's always been. It's just that the law of averages landed him some good people to run the show finally. I try to stay away from the personal stuff with Snyder because I don't know him and I sometimes wonder if it's piling on out of frustration by fans and mob mentality from media. Or maybe he really is Lucifer himself? I don't know. But if he really is a rotten person to the core it's unlikely that's suddenly changing anytime soon. So instead I just hope if and when we back into something good that he recognizes it and just let's them do their thing. I think he probably would. In 2012 no one was talking about chipped paint in the tunnels at FedEx. We really need to cross our fingers on two things: 1. Gruden is up for this job 2. RG3 can somehow stay on the field If those two things turn out in our favor it might be enough to overcome other obstacles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winochef Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I have been a season tix holder 25+ years and let them go this year. we have been rebuilding for a decade plus. Each year we,the fans, have hopes of a prom queen and end up with a crack wh...! I know I'm going to get slammed but this is my opinion. we have a curse like the billy goat curse on the Cubs. Ours stems from Jack Kent Cooke Jr. not getting the team. I have spent $80k+ in tixs, jerseys and redskins merch. over the years and all I'm left with is disdain for the ownership.. Truthfully how many times have you thought this is a new beginning only to fall in the same quagmire year after year with each new/returning coach and management. How many coaches can we go through with getting the same dismal results without scratching our heads and say is it the staff? The only common factor with a decade of failure is Snyder. Let the slamming me begin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kleese Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I have been a season tix holder 25+ years and let them go this year. we have been rebuilding for a decade plus. Each year we,the fans, have hopes of a prom queen and end up with a crack wh...! I know I'm going to get slammed but this is my opinion. we have a curse like the billy goat curse on the Cubs. Ours stems from Jack Kent Cooke Jr. not getting the team. I have spent $80k+ in tixs, jerseys and redskins merch. over the years and all I'm left with is disdain for the ownership.. Truthfully how many times have you thought this is a new beginning only to fall in the same quagmire year after year with each new/returning coach and management. How many coaches can we go through with getting the same dismal results without scratching our heads and say is it the staff? The only common factor with a decade of failure is Snyder. Let the slamming me begin! No one is going to slam you for bashing Snyder. That's common and accepted practice around here. If you are truly saying it's some sort of mystical curse then that might not go over all that well, but I took that more as tongue in cheek. It is all about winning and losing though. I hear fans say it's "how" we lose, but that's nonsense. Ralph Wilson is a pretty beloved figure in Buffalo Bills history but he was getting RIPPED as he got older for failing. Maybe he failed with class, but the Bills have made the playoffs three FEWER times than we have since 1999 and their fans are/were furious. It's all about winning and losing and that's all it's about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 We've forced 4 turnovers all year. We've committed 12. If it weren't for that, this thread wouldn't exist. And no, I do not like Snyder, so don't say that I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It's true. If we didn't play bad football year after year after year after year, this thread wouldn't exist. But it does and another one just like it will next year and the next year and the next. It's cause our organization sucks and we get outclassed by the big boys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zoony Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 We've forced 4 turnovers all year. We've committed 12. If it weren't for that, this thread wouldn't exist. And no, I do not like Snyder, so don't say that I do. So of we had good players that weren't stupid, there wouldn't be a thread about how our organization's dysfunction that selects said stupid players is systemic In that case, I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It's true. If we didn't play bad football year after year after year after year, this thread wouldn't exist. But it does and another one just like it will next year and the next year and the next. It's cause our organization sucks and we get outclassed by the big boys. Beat me to the punch. And it's not the big boys we get outclassed by--it's everyone outside of Jacksonville and Oakland. This is the 1st time I've posted in the Stadium all year (I think--I may have a post here and there I forgot about...) and I don't plan on writing too much more here. But I've read much that I agree with--and the fact is--this team is built on marketing. What can they sell to appease the masses. I've posted similar thoughts over in The Tailgate--but look how the Nats are built: scouting (i.e. Jordan Zimmermann), drafting (Strasburg, Harper, Zimmerman(n), Desmond, Storen) smart trades (Gio, Fister, Ramos, Span), and development. They have one--ONE--big FA in Werth. They are letting LaRoache walk one year too soon probably--as opposed to 3 years too late like the Redskins do. Mike Rizzo is an old-school scout. He knows the value of that and building off drafting and development. Now baseball and football are different animals. But the fundamental building blocks are the same: draft and develop. When was the last time the Redskins developed anyone? How many players can you say the Redskins drafted, came in, and were developed, and made better? Until the Redskins draft and develop our own--we are going to continue to struggle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 Now baseball and football are different animals. But the fundamental building blocks are the same: draft and develop. When was the last time the Redskins developed anyone? How many players can you say the Redskins drafted, came in, and were developed, and made better? Until the Redskins draft and develop our own--we are going to continue to struggle. Morris maybe? He was fairly good right away. We haven't done it a lot. These guys are a million years ago, but the three guys I always think of are Pierce, Clark, and Dockery. All three of them were unheralded when they came here. All three became above average guys at their position. And we let all three walk away pretty easily. It's like we don't understand the value in developing talent and signing it below market value before it hits the market. We also don't seem to get the idea of "average" or "above average" players. Ryan Clark was never a superstar. But he was pretty good. But pretty good is never really what this team seeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byrdman Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 That was pretty thoughtful. I think you're on point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chipwhich Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 These guys are a million years ago, but the three guys I always think of are Pierce, Clark, and Dockery. All three of them were unheralded when they came here. All three became above average guys at their position. And we let all three walk away pretty easily. It's like we don't understand the value in developing talent and signing it below market value before it hits the market. We also don't seem to get the idea of "average" or "above average" players. Ryan Clark was never a superstar. But he was pretty good. But pretty good is never really what this team seeks. That was a Gibbs screw up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdmiralWaugh Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The biggest misconception about Snyder by many fans is that he is some sort of business maven who built an empire. The dude is a con artist who rode a tech bubble. Nothing in his past leads me to believe he has the intelligence or ability to run a large business. I think he knows it too and why he has such thin skin and overly reactive of criticisms. He is terrified of people realizing he has not idea what he is doing on a daily basis. You and others here may be right about the Redskins under Snyder, but none of you know anything about his outside business dealings. Every citation here regarding those is clueless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsHokieFan Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 The org needs more Alfred's, Keenans, Chris Bakers, heck even Perry Riley to a degree and find a way not to let them hit FA. Those 4 guys are the right way to build something. Draft, take a few years to turn them into solid starters and retain them for a 2nd contract. If you have a stable org in place you can re-sign them a year before they hit FA and get a better deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveakl Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 You and others here may be right about the Redskins under Snyder, but none of you know anything about his outside business dealings. Every citation here regarding those is clueless. not true. Some people on here have done their research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ak2vegas Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I remember the future is now and the over the hill gang. The fix for that was good scouting. The improvement I would like to see is those lower picks turning into the stars. Too much a gamble on someone got hurt or they would have been a higher pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Going Commando Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Case in point: The Bengals. The Bengals are still the same cheap dysfunctional organization they have always been. They've just gotten very lucky in a few drafts while the Steelers and Ravens have gotten old. They are probably going to make the playoffs a few times, and then the organizational rot will bring them back down. Just through dumb luck, the Skins are going to have a great draft someday. That won't mean that what ails this organization is fixed. Joe Gibbs was able to cover up a lot of sins with wild spending in free agency and his own work ethic/skils. But he ultimately left the organization in a worst place, I think. The Bengals have actually nailed more than a draft or two out of luck. IMO their drafts from 2010, 2011, 2012, and 2013 were arguably the best span of drafting in the league. Even the 49ers, Rams, Seahawks, Cardinals, Steelers, Ravens, etc. have had some stinkers in that run. It's almost incomprehensible when you realize they don't have a traditional GM and they are rumored to have one of the cheapest scouting teams and be one of the most reliant on third party professional scouting services like Blesto and National. To me that says that they've got someone in college player personnel with real decision making power who is good. And ultimately, I think the real labor of team building comes down to the holistic vision of one guy in the front office who is able to truly work with the coaches and scouts to understand what they see and need/want, and synthesize all of that into a clear picture that informs every single personnel move they make. Give the Bengals credit as an organization for sticking with Marvin Lewis as long as they have. That kind of stability tills the ground for eventual success. There is a reason the Steelers always stay good as a whole. They have the best ownership in the league. They keep their coaches for decades. Even when they have the occasional down season. I don't even know that Marvin Lewis or Mike Tomlin are all that special. I doubt they're visionary coaches like Belichik and Shanahan. But again, I'm not sure you need that kind of coach in charge. I think what you need is a guy that players will play for and ownership and management to back the guy 100% for a span of a decade. String together a handful of quality drafts to form the core of your roster, nail some FA moves, and suddenly you'll start making the playoffs enough. And in the NFL, every playoff appearance is a lottery ticket that a hot QB and hot defense can ride to a ring, which validates everyone involved with that team for the rest of time. I'm also not sure that Bengals will fall back off while Lewis remains the coach and whoever is picking their drafts keeps doing a good job. That team picks up draft steals with frequency because all they care about is raw talent, and the end result is that they've become flat out hard to match up with. And stability has given them the opportunity to enjoy the development of most of that talent. Nobody else would pick Marvin Lewis and Andy Dalton as a sexy foundation for a team build. And yet the Bengals are probably going to keep making it work with them. Since when has the Bengals organization been dysfunctional? Ownership is super stingy when it comes to player contracts, but that's about all I've heard or seen. The owner is a jerk, IMO, but they seem to understand light years better than Snyder how to run a football operation. That's a low benchmark for competency as we're in the Cleveland/Oakland/Jacksonville tier of the worst organizations in football. The Bengals were basically incompetent and in our same tier for most of the 90's and the first decade of the 2000's. But I agree with you that they are light years ahead of us now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lombardi's_kid_brother Posted October 14, 2014 Author Share Posted October 14, 2014 You and others here may be right about the Redskins under Snyder, but none of you know anything about his outside business dealings. Every citation here regarding those is clueless. For those that don't know, this is Karl Swanson. Or at least it was last month. And Karl Swanson has apparently confirmed that Snyder has sucked as Redskins owner but is actually a pretty decent businessman. Which is probably evident by the billions of dollars, but that is neither here nor there. My argument is that Snyder knows how to make money but doesn't know how to build any kind of business organization. Whether football, theme parks, or a 7-11. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheItalianStallion Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 So of we had good players that weren't stupid, there wouldn't be a thread about how our organization's dysfunction that selects said stupid players is systemic In that case, I agree It's true. If we didn't play bad football year after year after year after year, this thread wouldn't exist. But it does and another one just like it will next year and the next year and the next. It's cause our organization sucks and we get outclassed by the big boys. No, it comes down to an injured starting QB and a bad DC. Our players aside from Oline and secondary (safety, really; the corners aren't that bad) are pretty good IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 It is all about winning and losing though. I hear fans say it's "how" we lose, but that's nonsense. Ralph Wilson is a pretty beloved figure in Buffalo Bills history but he was getting RIPPED as he got older for failing. Maybe he failed with class, but the Bills have made the playoffs three FEWER times than we have since 1999 and their fans are/were furious. It's all about winning and losing and that's all it's about. Problem is, we have absolutely EVERY ADVANTAGE compared to those franchises everyone keeps mentioning (Jags, Bills, Raiders, Browns, etc...) outside of maybe the Raiders. We have a city and surrounding areas people truly enjoy living over the other places outside of maybe the weather in Jax and Oakland. We have an incredibly profitable franchise with a massive global fan base unrivaled by any of those teams. We play in the NFC East, one of the premier divisions in the league with an unrivaled history. The franchise itself has a storied history that includes 3 Super Bowl titles and 2 pre-merger championships. A local media that exceeds or equals anyone else's in scale. There is no reason why we should even be in the same league as those other teams in terms of facilities, staff, stadium, etc... And, yet, we actually lag behind in some aspects and are equals in many others. It's ridiculous. Furthermore, ever since Snyder has come on board, we have a local media that's outrageously anti-Redskins. On top of that, with all the negativity surrounding the team name, we might be losing some of that historical luster. There is simply no excuse for it. Forget the losing, the bad coaching decisions, the problematic organizational structure, etc... forget all that and just think about how one of the most profitable sports franchises in the world has one of the most understaffed scouting departments, one of the worst stadium experiences, and some of the most outdated facilities in the league and there can only be one person to blame for that. I know, speaking for myself who has never been this bothered or frustrated and directing it towards Snyder himself, that I wouldn't be at this point if everything else fit how profitable this franchise is. I'd be willing to overlook the losing if we had a top notch scouting department, the best facilities, and one of the best in-game stadium experiences in the league. I'd chalk it up to misfortune and that's it. I'd still be angry that we don't have the soundest organizational structure (clear leadership in terms of personnel with a GM who has excelled at roster building and a scouting department that is almost never overruled), but I'd even overlook that to a degree. But we don't have any of those things, and if that's not the definition of bad ownership, I don't know what is. All I know is that I'm not someone who just gets mad because of losing and starts throwing darts at anyone I can. I've never done that. But there's simply no way I can continue to defend, support or justify Snyder's decision-making for this franchise in any manner. I'm not sure he's doing anything right to be honest. Even in actually having a GM, there's something wrong with it. It's so frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoDeep81 Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 Funny thing is, all he really had to do, even once, is get lucky hiring a legit GM and just turn over all football operations to him.. Then just sit back and watch the money roll in and probably be loved by his fanbase.. But in umpteen years of experimenting he still can't even get 1 part right.. #smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Acre Posted October 14, 2014 Share Posted October 14, 2014 I'm reading this thread as I watch my baseball S.F. Giants beat the Cards in game 3, bottom 10, on an errant throw by the pitcher fielding a bunt. Plays like that happen to the Giants. They've been focused on properly building a team within the context of the sport (i.e., the fundamentals of pitching and defense) and slowly growing a farm system that has produced some big-time players. The S.F. Giants make their own luck. Snyder's Redskins can't and never will. As a kid/young adult who was weened on 3 Super Bowls, and went to the SB XVII parade in the pouring rain, that really saddens me. He's just going to have to throw in the towel and sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General NSJ Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 Short of a massive scandal, Dan isn't going anywhere as long as the seats are full and his pockets stay fat. His ego won't allow him to simply give in. Hell he won't allow anything other than yes men in his circle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bih Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 You are missing the point. It's not about the GM, or picking talent, or any of those things. It's about leadership (or lack thereof). Snyder is not a leader of men. He is not a humble servant. He does not put other's needs ahead of his own. Snyder is a bad guy who has no real friends and will die alone. totally agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihateusernames Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 The org needs more Alfred's, Keenans, Chris Bakers, heck even Perry Riley to a degree and find a way not to let them hit FA. Those 4 guys are the right way to build something. Draft, take a few years to turn them into solid starters and retain them for a 2nd contract. If you have a perry riley?!?!? Perry Riley sucks. They need LESS Perry Rileys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destino Posted October 15, 2014 Share Posted October 15, 2014 For those that don't know, this is Karl Swanson. Or at least it was last month. And Karl Swanson has apparently confirmed that Snyder has sucked as Redskins owner but is actually a pretty decent businessman. Uh oh, wait until McKenna gets a hold of this. Is Karl Swanson also a "fake indian"? That would be the deadspin jackpot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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