A fundamental problem: We don't understand what kind of bad owner Snyder is

[PartyPosse]

The anti-Snyder/name change curse diatribe is just a fanbase that has run out of other ways to explain the ineffectiveness of the franchise. 

 

Honestly, if you want to think it's one giant conspiracy theory that the league has it out for the Redskins and more specifically Dan Snyder then you need to get a life. 

 

And what's worse is I believe that hyperbole has rubbed off on the actual franchise and those associated with it. I'm sure at least a handful of players feel the same way. 

 

Seriously, bad things happen to this team because it consistently puts itself in a position where bad things will happen. The cap penalty, they put themselves in that position. The RG3 trade and the aftermath, they put themselves in that position. Ignoring the secondary, the put themselves in that position. Throwing in a 4th round QB and expecting him to be the savior, they put themselves in that position. Yet you all act as if all this crap was because the team is "cursed" and wont get better until the name is changed or Snyder sells the team etc.

[DC9]

I think Jackson is on a three year deal, and there is a salary spike in 2017 to $8M.

 

There is no way to predict how long someone might be a viable player, but I don't have much reason, other than hope, to think that Hatcher can play at a high level past 33, if that.

 

Hatcher smells of Justin Smith, who turns 64 next month.

 

Low wear and tear on him early in his career.  I think he'll be fine.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

We needed a spark this year, something to show us that Bruce Allen "unleashed" would be better than the last few years.  I think the draft was the perfect place to do that.  If we were losing, but the right side of our OL had been replaced by Long/Moses (who would of course need to show signs of steady play), I think the fans would be more patient with Bruce.  Breeland and Grant have shown enough to agree both may have been good value for where we picked them.

 

Will Danny fire Bruce?  If he does, does that mean that Gruden will get canned?  Is there any scenario where we promote Bruce to some other position, bring in a GM, and stick with Gruden?  Would a new GM not want to do a coaching search?

 

Danny has gotten so many things wrong, I'm not sure he ever gets it right.  And at this point, I have no idea what "getting it right" would entail.

 

Number one thing for me though, in terms of what is tangible for Danny to get right, is to spend a bunch of cash to ensure that we have the best scouting department in the league.  I don't care how much he has to overpay people.  

[Dan T.]

Well to be fair we haven't been announcing all the charitable stuff and the Navajo yesterday wasn't announced either, just something noticed by the cameras.

 

I do find it amusing so many name change folk, especially NAs, were saying Snyder should spend time with NAs, then when he does they say he is bribing them and they are sell outs.

 

 

Not so fast patting Dan on the back for that camera op yesterday.  Ben Shelly, the guy next to Snyder in the booth in Arizona, has been ousted as president of the Navajo Nation.  He finished a distant 7th in primary voting in August, and will be out when a new guy is sworn into office in January.  Shelly came into office under a swirl of controversy, charged with conspiracy, fraud, and theft, related to his stealing from a tribal fund.  He avoided a trial by agreeing to pay back the money.  

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-11-05-navajo-election_N.htm

 

A major reason he was voted out seems to be that he clashed with the Navajo tribal council, siding with Snyder despite a 9-2 council vote to oppose the Redskins name.  

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/navajo-nation-council-opposes-nfl-teams-name

 

 

Then he alienated much of the Navajo Nation by teaming up with Snyder's Original Americans Foundation to host a golf tournament.  When other Indian sponsors learned of Snyder's involvement, they withdrew support.

 

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/14/redskins-golf-tournament-it-was-navajo-who-got-played-154435

---

I know somewhere out there are untainted or non-fake Indian leaders who support the Redskins.  But so far, it seems the Redskins have missed in finding them.

[elkabong82]

Its like we've been watching two completely different franchises for the last fifteen years.

 

It's like you didn't read my post at all.

[skins island connection]

 

 

 

 

 

 

In summary, the GMs for the past 2 NFC super bowl representatives were plucked either directly (in the case of Baalke - GM of the team that has been to 4 straight NFC championship games) or indirectly (in the case of Schneider, who was taken by Green Bay, another excellent organization, prior to moving to the current Super Bowl champs).

 

In 2001, we had Marty Schottenheimer as coach, Trent Baalke as head college scout, and John Schneider as head of player personnel.  We should have been set for the next decade plus.

 

EDIT: Holy formatting....

 

 Ahhh, now I see the problem. Marty-ball was watching too much Dukes of Hazzard and thought '**** if he can drive like that surely he'll be a big help to the team'. 

[DC9]

Is there any scenario where we promote Bruce to some other position, bring in a GM, and stick with Gruden?  Would a new GM not want to do a coaching search?

 

 

Being that Dan will never sell this team, the next best thing would be for us to hope for a scenario like this.

 

I've even figured it out... Dan ultimately wants to buy a Barclay's Premier League team.  Aston Villa are owned by former Cleveland Browns owner Randy Lerner...

 

 

who is also looking to cash in on Aston Villa.

 

So... this is how it works.

 

1) Dan promotes Bruce to President (already happened) - check

 

2) For his birthday, we all pool some money together and BUY Dan Aston Villa football club.  Bang can front the money for a flat in Birmingham and I'll burn Dan a copy of season 1 of "The Peaky Blinders" (just so ya'll can't say I didn't do anything but plan it).

 

 

 

3) Dan spends a lot of his time (and free money) trying to soup up Villa... which helps me out because they actually beat Liverpool this year... but back to the topic at hand... while Dan spends most of his time in England, watching a soccer season that starts in August and ends in May (for most of your clubs )...

 

4) Bruce hires a proper football GM... is relegated to "pants and picnics"

 

 

5) We build a team that'll win consistently

 

6) Championships

 

So... who is in?

[elkabong82]

Not so fast patting Dan on the back for that camera op yesterday.  Ben Shelly, the guy next to Snyder in the booth in Arizona, has been ousted as president of the Navajo Nation.  He finished a distant 7th in primary voting in August, and will be out when a new guy is sworn into office in January.  Shelly came into office under a swirl of controversy, charged with conspiracy, fraud, and theft, related to his stealing from a tribal fund.  He avoided a trial by agreeing to pay back the money.  

 

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-11-05-navajo-election_N.htm

 

A major reason he was voted out seems to be that he clashed with the Navajo tribal council, siding with Snyder despite a 9-2 council vote to oppose the Redskins name.  

 

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/navajo-nation-council-opposes-nfl-teams-name

 

 

Then he alienated much of the Navajo Nation by teaming up with Snyder's Original Americans Foundation to host a golf tournament.  When other Indian sponsors learned of Snyder's involvement, they withdrew support.

 

http://indiancountrytodaymedianetwork.com/2014/04/14/redskins-golf-tournament-it-was-navajo-who-got-played-154435

---

I know somewhere out there are untainted or non-fake Indian leaders who support the Redskins.  But so far, it seems the Redskins have missed in finding them.

 

I wasn't aware all of that made him not a Native American.

 

If name changers can support Halbritter despite his dubiousness then they have no room to try and declare that Shelly's opinion/stature somehow doesn't count.

 

I'm going to heed Lombardi though and stop discussing the name in here. Sorry for contributing to the tangent.

[Conn]

Snyder is such a bad owner, with such a rabid fanbase, that I'm kind of surprised some nutjob hasn't made an attempt on his life yet. I'm only half kidding.

[FrFan]

How did he win the lottery? Any person that's made it in business has had lumps along the way. Yeah Snyder lost money on Campus USA but he helped build Snyder Communications ( with his sister) into a billion dollar company. The past is the past but currently he's trying to bring in the right people with Shanahan and now letting Allen take over. He's not blameless but I also think he's grown a bit as an owner. Also we see nepotism all around the league all the time. Heck Gibbs 2 had all the old gang back here when some of them should have stayed retired.

And a freakin french company named Havas overpaid for Snyder com contributing and making him the owner of the Redskins.

[Bantu]

Until we have a breakdown on the investment acumen of most of the NFL owners, I'm going to have to believe that the OP has very little to stand on. Snyder buys and flips businesses? Well then, I think we would have a problem with a fair number of NFL (and other sports franchise) owners.

Bottom line .. Owners own. Players play. Apart from our offensive line which only boasts ONE whole player of merit, and our depleted secondary, we have a team that has as much talent as many NFL teams. Until Snyder suits up as #10 and lays an egg on the field as a player, I'm going to guess that he isn't the problem!

The OP's point had less to do with what qualities every owner has that Dan doesn't or has ever shown in his business ventures. He's trying to offer an explanation, with evidence, as to why Snyder hasn't been successful at running this organization. The players, coaches, and front office staff have all changed but there is always one constant.

[Mr. Sinister]

I think that's the entirety of his business worldview. He trusted/liked Vinny. He worshipped Gibbs. He knew Bruce Allen. He does not like going outside his comfort zone on hires.

Mark Shapiro probably has several vacation homes because of Snyder. After the Six Flags venture collapsed, Snyder moved him to Dick Clark Productions, because why the hell not?

But his world seems rather tiny for a billionaire marketing, sports and entertainment guru. So, it's not shocking that he's never found the Billy Beane of football in it, you know.

It's why he needs a consultant. Said it last year. He has no business picking his own HC or GM without the proper consultation.

I would easily throw some money at a guy like Bill Polian to come in and break things down for him. Problem is he has such a poor reputation in the league that I doubt anyone of substance would want anything to do with him.

I didn't think I'd ever see anything close to what I saw in 2009 ever again, but the last 21 months have completely shattered that. He's at a crossroads right now.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

 

So... who is in?

That's kinda why I brought it up.

 

I think bringing in a football GM, keeping Gruden, canning Haz/Raheem, and moving Bruce out of the personnel business is the best that we could realistically hope for.

 

Gruden's presser was brutal.  Hope he shakes it up.  Fire somebody.  Bench somebody.  Do something.  Anything to show that he is the boss and that he will not stand for the product that we're putting on the field.  Will it help?  Probably not.  But maybe, just maybe, it will light a fire under some guys.  What could it possibly hurt?

 

Sounds like Zimmer is in a similar spot in Minny.  

[DC9]

I would easily throw some money at a guy like Bill Polish to come in and bream things down for him. Problem is he has such a poor reputation in the league that I doubt anyone of subject stance would want anything to do with him.

 

I mean, that's all well and good, but you hit the nail on the head here.

 

Keep in mind what I mentioned about Tony Wylie earlier in the thread.  Highly accomplished and very well liked while in Houston.  Came here and he's a punch line.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

Snyder is such a bad owner, with such a rabid fanbase, that I'm kind of surprised some nutjob hasn't made an attempt on his life yet. I'm only half kidding.

 

Okay that went in a weird direction.....

[DC9]

That's kinda why I brought it up.

 

I think bringing in a football GM, keeping Gruden, canning Haz/Raheem, and moving Bruce out of the personnel business is the best that we could realistically hope for.

 

Gruden's presser was brutal.  Hope he shakes it up.  Fire somebody.  Bench somebody.  Do something.  Anything to show that he is the boss and that he will not stand for the product that we're putting on the field.  Will it help?  Probably not.  But maybe, just maybe, it will light a fire under some guys.  What could it possibly hurt?

 

Sounds like Zimmer is in a similar spot in Minny.  

 

Yeah, I agree... status quo breads status quo.

 

But I'm telling you... if you couldn't tell... I've spent a couple of months planning out that misdirection run on Danny, lol.  But he needs something to do at the end of the day.  Something for him.

 

If I remember, he owns the rights to an Arena League team in DC.  Maybe cash in on that and bring some dudes aboard?  Use it as a farm team for the Redskins. 

 

Give him SOMETHING to do where his money counts that he could be decent at.

 

I mean... if Gene Simmons and Bon Jovi can do it... why not our Danny?

[illone]

Is this a thread to defend Snyder and argue he is not involved?  If so it's a silly thread.  Who cares if he is involved or not, the only thing that matters is he fails.

 

I would take Jerry Jones as a GM at this point, can't do worse than what we have here.  Heck, just following one of the major draft analyst mock draft board would produce better results than what we have here.

 

You are missing the point.

 

It's not about the GM, or picking talent, or any of those things.

 

It's about leadership (or lack thereof).

 

Snyder is not a leader of men.  He is not a humble servant.  He does not put other's needs ahead of his own.

 

Snyder is a bad guy who has no real friends and will die alone.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

And he seems utterly incapable of not mixing friendship into this equation. His high profile exectuives have either been people he got along with fabulously - Vinny, Allen, and Gibbs. Or people he nearly came to blows with - Marty and Shanahan.

 

 

 

Don't recall hearing of him nearly coming to blows with Shanny.  According to two sources Cooley and JLC (who is no Danny fan) Snyder pretty much left Shanny alone to do his thing and they got along fine until Shanny decided to torch everyone at the end of last year.

 

Personally I don't think the Danny issue is that complex.  Hire a top personnel guy and get out of the way.  It's the most basic formula of success and he has yet to try it.   Neither Shanny nor Gibbs nor Cerrato are considered top FO personnel guys -- so he hired them and expected different different results.  I love Gibbs but he was a great coach not a personnel guy.   Shanny was let go in Denver because of questionable personnel moves and bad defenses.  Sound familiar?    

 

Bruce Allen is a sharp cap guy but didn't build a reputation for being a top personnel guy.  I give Snyder credit for at least trying to give the reigns to a personnel guy but again Allen as we know is really unproven in that regard.  It's like owning a restaurant and trying everything to make it work except hiring a proven kick butt chef 

[Conn]

Okay that went in a weird direction.....

Yeah, I guess so. But you don't see that headline as possible? There are some messed up people out there that are way too invested. "Deranged, obsessed fan goes off meds, takes shot at most disliked owner in sports". There has probably been a Criminal Minds episode along those lines, if I had to guess. The broken mind of a sports fanatic who thinks he's doing his fellow fans a favor.

[daveakl]

It's like owning a restaurant and trying everything to make it work except hiring a proven kick butt chef

Kick Butt Chefs don't want to work at Shoneys.

[DC9]

Don't recall hearing of him nearly coming to blows with Shanny.  According to two sources Cooley and JLC (who is no Danny fan) Snyder pretty much left Shanny alone to do his thing and they got along fine until Shanny decided to torch everyone at the end of last year.

 

I think that's what he was referring to. 

 

From what I heard, there was a quick 20 minute or so meeting with Dan, Bruce, Mike and maybe one or two more cats and the tension was fairly thick.

 

But figuratively, Dan would've gone in with Shanny.  And that might not have been a bad fight.

[Mr. Sinister]

Yeah, I guess so. But you don't see that headline as possible? There are some messed up people out there that are way too invested. "Deranged, obsessed fan goes off meds, takes shot at most disliked owner in sports". There has probably been a Criminal Minds episode along those lines, if I had to guess. The broken mind of a sports fanatic who thinks he's doing his fellow fans a favor.

Don't do it, Conn.

Lol

[MumboSauce]

I don't doubt Dan's passion for wanting a winning football team and spending to do it. I however question his hires/those entrusted to run the team ie GM etc. At some point a true/proper GM needs to be in charge, get the right group of coaches and let them do their job. No changing every 2-3 years.

[Isifhan]

I don't think Bruce is a bad GM, but we need a better scouting department. I agree he probably shouldn't be picking players.

 

Has anyone looked at the front office structure of other clubs.  I'll limit this just to the division because I don't have time right now to go through all teams but this is what it looks like JUST from a scouting perspective (not including directors of player or pro personnel, ONLY scouts plus assistants)

 

Giants:  3 executive scouts; 6 area scouts; 1 Blesto scout; 2 pro scouts; 1 assist. dir. pro personnel; 1 assistant, pro personnel

 

Eagles: 1 sr. football advisor; 1 AD player personnel; 1 AD college scouting; 1 pro scout; 5 area scouts; 2 assistant area scouts; 1 college scouting coordinator; 1 pro personnel assistant

 

Cowboys: I didn't see the scouting department listed on their website.  But my guess is that it's slightly more robust than ours.

 

Redskins: 1 pro scout; 4 area scouts; 1 scout (non classified); 1 blesto scout

 

So yeah, we're slightly outmatched just in the division.  

[gortiz]

I still fail to see how that was a bad move for the organisation.

 

Hail.

I guess I don't see it as genuine. Now I could be very wrong, but did he ever have American Indian representatives in his booth before? If the answer is yes, I stand corrected. If the answer is no because he's never got the crap before about the name, my thinking is he didn't care before and now he cares only because he's trying to cover his ass. All the spinning looks weak.