skinny21 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 He can play the run and he can rush the passer. When you've got a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB who can do that, they are valuable. I question the value of Rak the way he is used in our defense more than I question the value of his ability. Yeah, that's a great point. It almost seems like Haslett is in a tougher position having two good OLBs - sure, there are more options for pass rushing, but those aren't guys you want in coverage much. So now you've got 5 guys you don't really want in coverage, hence our 4-2-5 look. I think that's why Jackson worked pretty well in 2012. Kerrigan does pretty well in the flat, but as soon as a (pass catching) running back goes on a wheel route (McCoy last year) or whatever, the play breaks down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor703 Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 https://twitter.com/HTTR24_7 And the other night on The Drive, Cooley claimed every sack and hit was on RGIII. I think Cooley has been hanging out with Fred too much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 14, 2014 Share Posted February 14, 2014 He can play the run and he can rush the passer. When you've got a 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB who can do that, they are valuable. I question the value of Rak the way he is used in our defense more than I question the value of his ability. Â I agree, in a way. Â Rak is valuable the way he's used, as he's good at what he's asked to do for the most part. The problem is, it's not where he's best. The question as to why he's used (and Kerrigan, too) that way is a valid one. And Haslett may have good reasons. Maybe he's concerned with our safeties as force players on the edge with their inability to tackle, and therefore puts an added emphasis on the run with his OLBs. Maybe he's concerned with the ILBs range on tailback screens and tells his OLBs to tread carefully... Or maybe it's simply that his emphasis is on stopping the run and making opposing teams throw the ball (which, in essence, backfires. Our pass rush lacks and QBs have time to set up and drive the ball down field and find seams. Our secondary isn't great, but with a lack of pass rush it wouldn't matter if they were awesome*, there's too much time) Â * - denotes the exception being having a secondary that can press at the LOS and prevent their receiver from getting off the line to disrupt timing and stick with their man anyways (ie: Seattle) Â I'd run our defense a little different. BUT, I'm not a NFL coach. I don't have the qualifications to be a NFL coach (though I hope to someday work to that level), and there's a reason I'm not coaching in the NFL. It's silly for me to question Haslett's scheme when I'm not in the facility, but he absolutely needs to find something that works this year. Has to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98ORAKPO98 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 Sounds promising.  http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000326070/article/brian-orakpo-still-in-jim-hasletts-plans-for-14-redskins   In last week's interview with WTEM-AM's John Keim, defensive coordinator Jim Haslett hinted the Redskins have no intention of allowing Orakpo to reach free agency. "I think 'Rak' can get much better. I know Ryan (Kerrigan) can get a lot better," Haslett said. "We're going to try to turn them loose more this year, do a little bit more with them games-wise. Don't worry so much if they lose contain, because they're going to lose frickin' contain half the time. Let's go roll and make sure the tackles cover for them."  Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 16, 2014 Share Posted February 16, 2014 I'd run our defense a little different. BUT, I'm not a NFL coach. I don't have the qualifications to be a NFL coach (though I hope to someday work to that level), and there's a reason I'm not coaching in the NFL. It's silly for me to question Haslett's scheme when I'm not in the facility, but he absolutely needs to find something that works this year. Has to. Unfortunately I have more faith in Haslett's ability to find something that works than his ability to counter when an offense adjusts accordingly. Just hoping our personnel takes a big step forward on D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Â Rich_TandlerCSN There have been hints that the #Redskins will franchise tag Brian Orakpo. They have two weeks to decide. http://t.co/kw2D5LjQ47 17/02/2014 14:14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Â Rich_TandlerCSN There have been hints that the #Redskins will franchise tag Brian Orakpo. They have two weeks to decide. http://t.co/kw2D5LjQ47 17/02/2014 14:14 That'd be almost $11 million. I sure hope we can work something else out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted February 17, 2014 Author Share Posted February 17, 2014 Rich_TandlerCSN There have been hints that the #Redskins will franchise tag Brian Orakpo. They have two weeks to decide. http://t.co/kw2D5LjQ47 17/02/2014 14:14 Near as damn it a third of our budget on a hit and miss player. We'd better sure as heck hope this new staff can coach its ass off as quality reinforcers will be limited at this rate. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Rob Jackson is cheaper and showed flashes of being pretty decent. Â Unless Orakpo is going to be paid by his production, it's time to move on. Â I feel confident with Kerrigan/Jackson rushing the QB as long as that money is used for our biggest need.....DL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rk3025 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 No. Too many injury concerns. Had Orakpo gotten through the season with no problems, and produced the whole season like he did in that 5-6 game stretch, we probably could get a 1st rounder for him. But not with the injury concerns and his disappearing act Hope we do not franchise Orakpo like we did Davis as both are injury prone and we could have got value from Davis and could from Orakpo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTillIDie Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Orakpo, "hit or miss" ? 3-4 outside linebackers below -- Orakpo, in rushes per sack, is sandwiched between Aldon Smith and Clay Matthews. Guess they're "hit or miss" as well... and I suppose the 'elite' pass rushers Terrell Suggs, Tamba Hali, Mario Williams must be significantly more 'miss' then too. Â Â Â And QB knockdowns: Â Â Â Of course we're going to franchise Orakpo if we can't lock him up to a contract soon. We're not letting him get away, nor should we. Franchising him gives us leverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murphs56 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Rob Jackson is cheaper and showed flashes of being pretty decent. Â Unless Orakpo is going to be paid by his production, it's time to move on. Â I feel confident with Kerrigan/Jackson rushing the QB as long as that money is used for our biggest need.....DL. Â I do not feel at all confident with Jackson and Kerrigan as your pass rushers. Kerrigan regressed and your basing your assessment on Jackson from 2 seasons ago. Orakpo and Hall are the best 2 players on our defense. 2 guys you have to bring back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markmills67 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 If we franchise Orakpo it will be a big mistake, we need upgrading in plenty of areas and to pay Orakpo close to a quarter of our available cap is stupid, we need to offer him a deal that is good for him but more importantly the team, $7m a year is my limit and if Orakpo doesn't like it then goodbye. We can always draft OLB with pick 34 in the draft. DE, ILB, S are all for me more important and we need upgrades in all these positions, I just hope we don't throw all our eggs in 1(Orakpo) basket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsfan_13 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 If we franchise Orakpo it will be a big mistake, we need upgrading in plenty of areas and to pay Orakpo close to a quarter of our available cap is stupid, we need to offer him a deal that is good for him but more importantly the team, $7m a year is my limit and if Orakpo doesn't like it then goodbye. We can always draft OLB with pick 34 in the draft. DE, ILB, S are all for me more important and we need upgrades in all these positions, I just hope we don't throw all our eggs in 1(Orakpo) basket. I would agree here. We've seen Orakpo now for several years. He beats up on the low level tackles but is nowhere to be seen against the good ones. He is not a 10 mil a year player. 7 million seems to be a good number. I do not feel at all confident with Jackson and Kerrigan as your pass rushers. Kerrigan regressed and your basing your assessment on Jackson from 2 seasons ago. Orakpo and Hall are the best 2 players on our defense. 2 guys you have to bring back There's also Jenkins. I would have no problem going with that combo is Orakpo is too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I do not feel at all confident with Jackson and Kerrigan as your pass rushers. Kerrigan regressed and your basing your assessment on Jackson from 2 seasons ago. Orakpo and Hall are the best 2 players on our defense. 2 guys you have to bring back Kerrigan regressed because of injury, not because he isn't capable of being our premiere pass rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Of course we're going to franchise Orakpo if we can't lock him up to a contract soon. We're not letting him get away, nor should we. Franchising him gives us leverage.  Of course it gives us leverage.  I mean, when he doesn't sign long term again next year (because he's always worth more) we can just tag him again right? Doesn't the price go down year to year to benefit the franchise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Tag goes up i think it is 120% of the franchise number or something like that for back to back tags . It is to compensate the player for essentially not getting a shot at a huge signing bonus ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsTillIDie Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Of course it gives us leverage.  I mean, when he doesn't sign long term again next year (because he's always worth more) we can just tag him again right? Doesn't the price go down year to year to benefit the franchise?  He'll sign long-term this year, something like a 5-year $50 million deal, and our fanbase will flip. It'll be hilarious  Ultimately, in my view, our cap space shouldn't be spent trying to immediately plug all our wholes and build a new team (again... a la Cerrato), but conserved as we re-sign our best players (Orakpo this year, RGIII, Trent Williams, Kerrigan, Alfred Morris coming up), and build through the draft. Conversation for the free agency thread I suppose, but re: Orakpo -- the stats convey the impression that he's among the very best in the league at sacks per rush and QB hits per rush, he's the best player and the cornerstone of our defense, he's in his prime, is high-character and now supplants Fletcher as the vocal leader of the defense.  We too often fall victim to the grass-is-greener side of the fence for other players. That being said, if we can get young and very good to elite players (25-27) to help supplement the building process, I'm for that. An Alterraun Verner or Golden Tate I'd be for. But not at the expense of our best defensive player and our best pass rusher in a generation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC9 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Tag goes up i think it is 120% of the franchise number or something like that for back to back tags . It is to compensate the player for essentially not getting a shot at a huge signing bonus ...  Correct, it does. The sarcasm was a bit thick last night. He'll sign long-term this year, something like a 5-year $50 million deal, and our fanbase will flip. It'll be hilarious  Ultimately, in my view, our cap space shouldn't be spent trying to immediately plug all our wholes and build a new team (again... a la Cerrato), but conserved as we re-sign our best players (Orakpo this year, RGIII, Trent Williams, Kerrigan, Alfred Morris coming up), and build through the draft. Conversation for the free agency thread I suppose, but re: Orakpo -- the stats convey the impression that he's among the very best in the league at sacks per rush and QB hits per rush, he's the best player and the cornerstone of our defense, he's in his prime, is high-character and now supplants Fletcher as the vocal leader of the defense.  We too often fall victim to the grass-is-greener side of the fence for other players. That being said, if we can get young and very good to elite players (25-27) to help supplement the building process, I'm for that. An Alterraun Verner or Golden Tate I'd be for. But not at the expense of our best defensive player and our best pass rusher in a generation.  Each year we see some new stat that he's very good at. But the on the field performance just isn't there.  If we gave him a 5 year $50 mil deal this fanbase has the right to flip out. Do you think he is worth 10 mil over the next 5 if we get status quo of what he's brought to the table so far? "Rak-ing" up sacks against lesser opponents and backup QBs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 One thing that I think we shouldn't do, unless it gets down towards the end, is franchise tag him. If you do that, you are saying he is worth (say 10 million) as a minimum and it doesn't give us any leverage to come down below that number. I'm hoping we get something worked out before he hits free agency in March. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I do not feel at all confident with Jackson and Kerrigan as your pass rushers. Kerrigan regressed and your basing your assessment on Jackson from 2 seasons ago. Orakpo and Hall are the best 2 players on our defense. 2 guys you have to bring back  Guess we will have to agree to disagree.  Kerrigan>Orakpo.  We need way more help at DL/ILB IMO.  I think we can lock Hall up for a reasonable deal anyways.  He is a proud Redskin, enjoys playing for this franchise, has made astronomical amounts of money, and his mentality has changed to just win games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbi3stix Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Orakpo should draw around 11 mil if we franchise tage him. Can we really upgrade him and spend less? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Orakpo should draw around 11 mil if we franchise tage him. Can we really upgrade him and spend less?  From what I've been reading, if we do a longterm contract, probably somewhere between 9.5-10.5 mil.  The issue is that lesser pass rushers like Paul Kruger got 8 million a year last season. Suggs got 8 million this year, but he's 32, and on the decline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah I really don't think he is worth 10-11 Mil/year. I would agree with 7 being my ceiling. Franchising him would be a bad idea unless someone is willing to give us 2 firsts for our franchised player. Now THAT would be epic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Yeah I really don't think he is worth 10-11 Mil/year. I would agree with 7 being my ceiling. Franchising him would be a bad idea unless someone is willing to give us 2 firsts for our franchised player. Now THAT would be epic!  Getting 2 firsts would be epic. But I find it weird that your ceiling is far below what lesser players have signed for. Are you saying he's worse than Paul Kruger?  Lamar Woodley's contract averages to 10.5 million a year, yet Orakpo played better last year than Woodley has in a few years. Anthony Spencer got franchised last year, yet Orakpo's a better player. Charles Johnson is being paid 12.67 million a year, do you really think he's almost twice the player Orakpo is? Chris Long is being paid 12.05 million a year.  I mean, for you to say that Orakpo's CEILING as a player is so much lower than all of these other guys? It does not make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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