bobbi3stix Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Getting 2 firsts would be epic. But I find it weird that your ceiling is far below what lesser players have signed for. Are you saying he's worse than Paul Kruger? Lamar Woodley's contract averages to 10.5 million a year, yet Orakpo played better last year than Woodley has in a few years. Anthony Spencer got franchised last year, yet Orakpo's a better player. Charles Johnson is being paid 12.67 million a year, do you really think he's almost twice the player Orakpo is? Chris Long is being paid 12.05 million a year. I mean, for you to say that Orakpo's CEILING as a player is so much lower than all of these other guys? It does not make sense. Good post. And putting the numbers in front of us for those players helps "justify" a bit, in case we go either way. It would be nice if Orakpo and the team work TOGETHER, get something like a 5yr/40mil deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matugi Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Kerrigan>Orakpo ha. Kerrigan is solid passrusher but is a mediocre overall player. He's really regressed in run defense. As a pass rusher he's an asset but does not hold a candle to Orakpo in any regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 ha. Kerrigan is solid passrusher but is a mediocre overall player. He's really regressed in run defense. As a pass rusher he's an asset but does not hold a candle to Orakpo in any regard. Yeeeaaahh, I was pretty disappointed by his season. When the Michael Sam news came out I thought, "Well, we could draft him in round 4-5 to be our LOLB in case Kerrigan doesn't pan out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacks 'n' Stuff Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'd rather franchise him for one year at $11 million than commit to five years, $50 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 ha. Kerrigan is solid passrusher but is a mediocre overall player. He's really regressed in run defense. As a pass rusher he's an asset but does not hold a candle to Orakpo in any regard. What a stupid post. Kerrigan is hardly mediocre in any aspect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Always A Commander Never A Captain Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 What a stupid post. Kerrigan is hardly mediocre in any aspect. While this is true in general terms, we spent a 1st rounder on him. That raises the bar for what we consider "mediocre". If he continues on his current production, and his contract is up in two years, we might have to let him leave. For some reason I feel like he hasn't really developed since his rookie year. Then again, that could be Haslett. We'll have to find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Good post. And putting the numbers in front of us for those players helps "justify" a bit, in case we go either way. It would be nice if Orakpo and the team work TOGETHER, get something like a 5yr/40mil deal. What were their exact contracts? Teams do it differently when it comes to backloading contracts, etc. Many times a guy who, in x year of his contract is apparently owed 12 million, that isn't actually what he will get. And FWIW Kruger is hilariously overpaid...but that's the Browns for you. Is that who's example we want to follow? Anthony Spencer is also crazy overpaid...that's Jerruh for you. Why would you use horrible decisions as a benchmark? We have so many holes that if Rak demands an enormous contract we'd be better off letting him walk and letting someone else fork over an overpriced contract. Rak is a very good player but IMO he isn't elite. Those guys you mentioned were also good but not elite and they got paid like elite players...and those teams got burned by those contracts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 While this is true in general terms, we spent a 1st rounder on him. That raises the bar for what we consider "mediocre". If he continues on his current production, and his contract is up in two years, we might have to let him leave. For some reason I feel like he hasn't really developed since his rookie year. Then again, that could be Haslett. We'll have to find out. He hasn't gotten sacks, which is typically how people measure the production of pass rushers, however his hurries are off the charts. In 2012, he had 50 hurries. The next best guy had 39. So I think with a interior linemen getting some pressure for a change Kerrigan can convert his hurries into sacks because the QB won't be able to simply step up. This year, a year many would consider a "down" one for Kerrigan, he was still credited with 9 sacks 3 hits a 40 hurries, the 40 hurries being good for 5th in the league and was on the way to being one of the best in the league before battling some injuries and being noticeably slower. The way I see it, if Kerrigan is allowed to use a inside pass rush move and we get an end who can collapse the pocket his production will go WAY up. While the 9 sack per year guy he is now isn't too shabby, I feel he has SO much more potential. EDIT: Just watched 5 minutes of his tape from the Bears game. FACEPLAM. Hasletts scheme is so messed up.. he has 5-6 plays were he lines up in a ILB stance and jams the tight end before he rushes the passer. You don't see Ahmad Brooks or Aldon Smith doing that.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 ha. Kerrigan is solid passrusher but is a mediocre overall player. He's really regressed in run defense. As a pass rusher he's an asset but does not hold a candle to Orakpo in any regard. What? Really? When I say Kerrigan > Orakpo I mostly mean I'm willing to bet teams gameplan for Kerrigan more then Orakpo. Kerrigan is more of a threat to getting to the QB. It's not by much. Orakpo is also very good but some of us can't warrant the 10-11 million he may demand. If he takes 8 or even 9 pending on other details I will be happy. They are both very good pass rushers. But Kerrigan doesn't hold a candle to Orakpo at rushing the QB? That's just simply ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbi3stix Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 What were their exact contracts? Teams do it differently when it comes to backloading contracts, etc. Many times a guy who, in x year of his contract is apparently owed 12 million, that isn't actually what he will get. And FWIW Kruger is hilariously overpaid...but that's the Browns for you. Is that who's example we want to follow? Anthony Spencer is also crazy overpaid...that's Jerruh for you. Why would you use horrible decisions as a benchmark? We have so many holes that if Rak demands an enormous contract we'd be better off letting him walk and letting someone else fork over an overpriced contract. Rak is a very good player but IMO he isn't elite. Those guys you mentioned were also good but not elite and they got paid like elite players...and those teams got burned by those contracts. I don't know their numbers, the post I quoted mentioned them and I'm just taking it as true. But I agree with not going crazy for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Just wanted to point something out to the people who want Rak back (I am one of those people)... You don't have to put down Kerrigan in order to prop Rak. We are better off if we can get a good deal (market dictated, of course) for Orakpo and manage to put both of them on the field. The bottom line is cost effectiveness. Can we get a deal for Rak, that by market value is fair, and allows the team to benefit? If we can't, moving on is likely inevitable. If we can, than we're going to be better with Orakpo and Kerrigan on the field together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Just wanted to point something out to the people who want Rak back (I am one of those people)... You don't have to put down Kerrigan in order to prop Rak. We are better off if we can get a good deal (market dictated, of course) for Orakpo and manage to put both of them on the field. The bottom line is cost effectiveness. Can we get a deal for Rak, that by market value is fair, and allows the team to benefit? If we can't, moving on is likely inevitable. If we can, than we're going to be better with Orakpo and Kerrigan on the field together. . You know, that's something I'm trying to drill into my 7 yr old - doesn't have to put down someone else when pumping himself up. Good life lesson KDawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 . You know, that's something I'm trying to drill into my 7 yr old - doesn't have to put down someone else when pumping himself up. Good life lesson KDawg It's tough to read people dogging on Kerrigan, who has been nothing but solid for us, to prop up Rak. And the same vice versa. They're both very good players who we're lucky to have on our roster. *shrug* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Yeah I really don't think he is worth 10-11 Mil/year. I would agree with 7 being my ceiling. Franchising him would be a bad idea unless someone is willing to give us 2 firsts for our franchised player. Now THAT would be epic!Double digit sack OLB/DEs in their prime get more than $7M a year - I can see no way Orakpo would sign that kind of deal, he will get more than that in free agency. Something around $9M a year average is more realistic and I suspect he will end up closer to $10M. My gut feeling is that's a bit more than Orakpo is worth but it's the market price and not a stupid number.It's the average over the first 3 years of any deal including guarantee money and bonus we need to look at when we start talking about what the real average is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Double digit sack OLB/DEs in their prime get more than $7M a year - I can see no way Orakpo would sign that kind of deal, he will get more than in free agency. Something around $9M a year average is more realistic and I suspect he will end up closer to $10M. My gut feeling is that's a bit more than Orakpo is worth but it's the market price and not a stupid number. It's the average over the first 3 years of any deal including guarantee money and bonus we need to look at when we start talking about what the real average is. I'm not sure that some are being realistic with market value. I don't want to overinflate Orakpo's value, but he's clearly a very good player at a position that gets paid a lot. I'm also surprised to see suggestions that he wouldn't be hard to replace. Granted, I do like Jackson, and I get the idea that we want to fill as many holes as possible... but I think you take care of your own. Unfortunately, fair market value for Orakpo is going to closer to 10m than 7m - but that's just how it goes. Ideally I'd like to pay our own guys fair contracts, bring in a few solid starters/contributors and then focus on signing stopgaps and building through the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted February 19, 2014 Author Share Posted February 19, 2014 If he moves on, as I believe he will I sincerely hope this isn't bumped in a 'told you so' fashion after every sack elsewhere. We went through all that with the likes if Rogers and Landry who didn't deserve to stay here. At least Orakpo is far more worthy than any of those two chumps but financiers dictate. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sean and Laron show Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Bruce needs to give Orakpo his money. 5 year 55 mill with 25+ mill guaranteed With the state this franchise has been in it's worth it to slightly overpay homegrown talent. It shows all the young guys that if you give a 100% for the burgundy & gold... YOU WILL BE REWARDED BY THE TEAM THAT MADE YOU. You don't think Trent Williams, RG3 and Kerrigan are keeping a close eye on how the front office is going about Orakpo's contract? Bruce has to set the tone that we take care of OUR guys. We don't need another Antonio Pierce/ Ryan Clark/ Laron Landry/ Carlos Rogers situation where the player has either soured on the franchise by the time his contract is up or is replaced by an expensive outsider deemed better only to severely outplay his replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjfootballer Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 ha. Kerrigan is solid passrusher but is a mediocre overall player. He's really regressed in run defense. As a pass rusher he's an asset but does not hold a candle to Orakpo in any regard. He was injured last year, but I suggest you look at the film. Kerrigan is all over the field. That is one reason we drafted him, because he has a high motor. Very intelligent and seems to always be in the right place at the right time. Let's see how the new regime uses him and Rak, assuming Brian re-signs. I can't stand Haslett, but from all indications, he will be using them quite differently this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 He was injured last year, but I suggest you look at the film. Kerrigan is all over the field. That is one reason we drafted him, because he has a high motor. Very intelligent and seems to always be in the right place at the right time. Let's see how the new regime uses him and Rak, assuming Brian re-signs. I can't stand Haslett, but from all indications, he will be using them quite differently this year. I truly hope so (re Haslett's use of the OLBs). I also hope Orakpo tears it up so we can put to bed the oft said 'he's not an impact player' and 'he's nowhere near one of the top players at his position' and finally the 'he only has one move' one liners. To be clear, I don't think his production merits the 'elite' label, but I think he deserves to be in the conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 Bruce needs to give Orakpo his money. 5 year 55 mill with 25+ mill guaranteed With the state this franchise has been in it's worth it to slightly overpay homegrown talent. It shows all the young guys that if you give a 100% for the burgundy & gold... YOU WILL BE REWARDED BY THE TEAM THAT MADE YOU. You don't think Trent Williams, RG3 and Kerrigan are keeping a close eye on how the front office is going about Orakpo's contract? Bruce has to set the tone that we take care of OUR guys. We don't need another Antonio Pierce/ Ryan Clark/ Laron Landry/ Carlos Rogers situation where the player has either soured on the franchise by the time his contract is up or is replaced by an expensive outsider deemed better only to severely outplay his replacement. A player should be awarded an elite contract if he is an elite level player. 11 mil/year plus 25+ guaranteed is a lot of money for a guy like Orakpo who is very good but not upper echelon. I have a feeling the FO would balk at that price tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thekyle1591 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 If he moves on, as I believe he will I sincerely hope this isn't bumped in a 'told you so' fashion after every sack elsewhere. We went through all that with the likes if Rogers and Landry who didn't deserve to stay here. At least Orakpo is far more worthy than any of those two chumps but financiers dictate. Hail. If we let Rak go we will definitely regret it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 If he moves on, as I believe he will I sincerely hope this isn't bumped in a 'told you so' fashion after every sack elsewhere. We went through all that with the likes if Rogers and Landry who didn't deserve to stay here. At least Orakpo is far more worthy than any of those two chumps but financiers dictate. Hail. You know it will. And, while I won't personally do it, it should be* * denotes a stance in which I mean he gets a very reasonable dollar amount elsewhere. If someone breaks the bank on him and we can't afford him, it's kind of a pointless bump, as we couldn't really afford to pay him the extremely large chunk of change that he desired. See Bailey, Champ^ ^ Bailey, Champ: His wife wanted him out. He was leaving. We didn't get fleeced in a trade, we got good pieces for a guy we were going to lose anyways, an entirely different case thanLandry, LaRon# # Landry, LaRon: Hasn't done much since he left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 No excuses, unless Orakpo has a desire to leave for a reason other than money, he should be re-signed here. No excuses, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaGoonie55 Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I don't think we've seen everything Rak has to offer. His ceiling is climbing, he's battled injuries and an alleged head coach interference issue. Let's see what he does this year. Incentivise his contract, bust out a healthy bonus, and keep him at around 25M guaranteed. If he's able to put up 15+ sacks, then you bust out the big money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KuNiT21 Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Easy solution to this. Bruce should just give him 6-7 million a year, Orakpo says he loves being a Redskins and was fully open to a hometown discount, Dan just digs a small hole of treasure in his yard and makes up the difference up front on the side for Orakpo. Win/Win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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