Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[markmills67]

I want the Redskins to have a good defence, we need at least 4 new starters to get there from my point of view, don't get me wrong I like Orakpo and we drafted him, but not to the detriment of the rest of our defence. If he won't take $8m a year then we should move on and maybe use the 34th pick on a OLB.

[bedlamVR]

So make a hole to fill a hole - great philosophy ... i mean running in place is absolutely the fastest way to get to where you want be, assuming where you want to be is where you are ....

[Skinsfan4life83]

Resign Rak or regret it later. Period. What kills me is all the people claiming we need the money for other holes but they are willing to go out and spend money on a 30 year old linebacker(Jackson from Cleveland) and let a younger guy walk. A homegrown guy at that over an extra 1-2 mil a year. It's ridiculous. If we let Rak walk we will regret it for years to come.

I want the Redskins to have a good defence, we need at least 4 new starters to get there from my point of view, don't get me wrong I like Orakpo and we drafted him, but not to the detriment of the rest of our defence. If he won't take $8m a year then we should move on and maybe use the 34th pick on a OLB.

Yes because it's not like that 34th pick could be used to fill another hole, like say WR, that would still be there if we did what you are suggesting. Yeah let's make MORE holes. Smh.

[KDawg]

I, for one, would loathe a big signing at a position other than OLB if we let Rak walk. I don't advocate that at all.

[bowhunter]

Resign Rak or regret it later. Period. What kills me is all the people claiming we need the money for other holes but they are willing to go out and spend money on a 30 year old linebacker(Jackson from Cleveland) and let a younger guy walk. A homegrown guy at that over an extra 1-2 mil a year. It's ridiculous. If we let Rak walk we will regret it for years to come.

Yes because it's not like that 34th pick could be used to fill another hole, like say WR, that would still be there if we did what you are suggesting. Yeah let's make MORE holes. Smh.

I LOVE Orakpo and want to see him be a Redskin for life, but not at the expense of building a winning team. Be realistic, we have too many holes to pay $11 million a year to a great-very good-good-whatever OLB. We just do. So although I love me some Rak, I'm a Redskins fan first and foremost. a $3mill gap is enough to add a serious ILB or OG. We could probably have RJax for $4 mill and that would save us $8 mill a year over Raks cost. Think about that for a second. A defense with RJax and Jarius Byrd or one with just Rak. Team first

[Skinsfan4life83]

I LOVE Orakpo and want to see him be a Redskin for life, but not at the expense of building a winning team. Be realistic, we have too many holes to pay $11 million a year to a great-very good-good-whatever OLB. We just do. So although I love me some Rak, I'm a Redskins fan first and foremost. a $3mill gap is enough to add a serious ILB or OG. We could probably have RJax for $4 mill and that would save us $8 mill a year over Raks cost. Think about that for a second. A defense with RJax and Jarius Byrd or one with just Rak. Team first

So signing a 30 year old stop gap at linebacker and letting Rak walk is building for the future? (Sorry im still astounded by the D. Jackson thread.) How does that work? Rak deserves the 1-2 mil extra and we still have money to sign some guys via FA and the Draft is there. Bruce needs to work his contractual magic so that it works out for both sides. We still have some solid young backups in place that deserve a chance. The whole team doesn't need a complete rebuild. If Rak walks it will haunt us for years. Fans will quickly discover he isn't easily replaced like they seem to think. 

RJAX hasn't proven he can perform for a whole season and is nowhere near Rak talent wise in my opinion. 

Which yall will find out if that scenario happens. Besides I don't want Byrd when we can get someone much cheaper. In my opinion overpaying for Byrd will be more detrimental than resigning Rak. 

[bowhunter]

So signing a 30 year old stop gap at linebacker and letting Rak walk is building for the future? (Sorry im still astounded by the D. Jackson thread.) How does that work? Rak deserves the 1-2 mil extra and we still have money to sign some guys via FA and the Draft is there. Bruce needs to work his contractual magic so that it works out for both sides. We still have some solid young backups in place that deserve a chance. The whole team doesn't need a complete rebuild. If Rak walks it will haunt us for years. Fans will quickly discover he isn't easily replaced like they seem to think. 

RJAX hasn't proven he can perform for a whole season and is nowhere near Rak talent wise in my opinion. 

Which yall will find out if that scenario happens

There is no "extra" 1-2 mill. We have too many holes to have "extra" anything. I would do dances if we could keep Orakpo for $8mill a year, but I don't see that happening.

[Alaskins]

Availability is a concern to be sure, but I'm not sure I can agree that Orakpo's value is 2/3 the value of a top 5 OLB. I'd say (and I feel I'm being very conservative) 85% of the value of a top 5 would be more accurate - which would equate to 8.5m/yr.

I'm disappointed that many seem to share the view that Orakpo is so far off from the top tier of OLBs - it seems such a disservice to a guy that has both played very well for us and been a great team member in his time here.

 

 

The defense not missing a beat with RJax in there in 2012 probably has something to do with that.  I agree with jschuck...  He is good, and I hope that we hold on to him, but I don't think he is top-5 material.  

 

He might be someday...  but right now he is not.

[RandyHolt]

I think how Haslett intends to use him, is a possible factor. Say he was handcuffed with run responsibilities but now Haslett intends to unleash him proper. Which also means lining up in other spots, new moves, stunts etc.

 

Maybe it would be wise to franchise him and buy ourselves a year to get bigger problems sorted out, like all the other holes on the team. 

 

And get another year to judge Rak. 

 

I do think OLB with or without him is a position of strength - not saying much, I know. but where are we deeper? People have written off Jackson almost his entire career. I think he is good for 5 sacks at say 2.5M. Rak is good for ~10 but costs 10M. Kerrigan is no slouch and is ready to fill any void. Jenkins if he can stay healthy should be ready to help pinch hit. Its a not a train wreck if Rak walks but all things equal, you keep the better players and flush the crap

 

If you think saving ~3M on letting him walk and signing an OLB for cheaper is going to be the cap room for player that pushes us over the top... I tend to really doubt that.  

 

Its a tough decision regardless of your stance on Rak. The grass is not always greener. Nor is it likely he becomes a 15+ sack guy. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Chris Russell just said that he was once optimistic that Orkapo stays now hes getting the vibe that the skins might let him test the market  

[redskins55]

 These are the top OLB salaries in the game... Stats below their names

 

 Player                 Avg Per Yr/ guaranteed

 

Clay Mathews          13.2 Mil / 20 mil

5yrs = 245 tackles 50 sacks

 

Demarcus Ware          13 mil / 20.2 mil          (Anthony Spencer 10.6 mil /10.6mil guaranteed)

9yrs = 574 tackles  117 sacks

 

Tamba Hali                  11.5Mil/ 16mil

8yrs = 446tackles  73.5 sacks

 

Lamar Woodly             10.25mil/ 17mil  

7yrs = 299 tckles  57 sacks

 

Robert Mathis             9mil/ 17mil

11yrs = 487 tackles  111 sacks

 

Paul Kruger                 8mil/  20mil

5 yrs = 116 tackles   20 sacks

 

 

Ahmad Brooks             6.7mil/ 8.5mil

8yrs = 245 tackles   30 sacks

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Orakpo in 4yrs (minus injured yr)  = 225 tackles  38.5 sacks

 

He is on pace to equal Tamba Hali numbers and has better numbers than Kruger or Brooks.

Robert Mathis first four years looks almost identical to Orakpo (35 sacks)

 

Rak avg more tackles and is on pace with sacks per yr with Clay Matthews.

 

If I were the Redskins I would franchise him in a heartbeat. I'd base it off the fact that he was injured one year and all the rest of the top pass rushers never missed a season. I'd convey to him that he is clearly our franchise player right now and if he has another productive year we'll offer him a long term deal. He is worth the franchise tag easily! And I would pay him more than Woodley! My offer is 10.5.mil yr/ 18 guaranteed.

 

To those who are worried about cap space you forget that we dont have any money tied up into anyone on our roster really. We have the money to spend! Think about it.. How can the Chiefs have Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson, Eric Berry and Tamba Hali?? How did the Packers have Aaron Rogers, Jordi Nelson, Charles Woodson, Greg Jennings and Clay Matthews??  They all had big contracts! Its Easy... you pay your stars when their time comes up. Draft replacements for them and in time you restructure their contracts, release them or trade them! But you absolutely dont let them sign somewhere else without a replacement on deck or a team in place.

 

So say what you will but Orakpo has earned to be at least the 4th highest paid OLB in the game. The numbers dont lie This is what happens when you actually develop your own stars Washington.. you pay them!

[acuratl1984]

Letting him walk with out getting anything back is straight up stupid.

People have been wanting a book end for Orakpo since day one, and now that we have 2 bookend OLB/DE we want to let him walk?

Idiotic.

 

At the worst we need to franchise and trade. At lease get something for him. I am sure a pass rushing needy team would drop a 2nd for him easy.

[HAILSKINSNYC]

I haven't posted on this subject in months....I was one of the "Rob Jackson is better" people....my opinion hasn't changed.

 

I am not an Orakpo fan..especially for the money being talked about...apparently teams are willing to spend big money him.

 

I would franchise tag and trade him.

 

All these national media people praising Orakpo must only watch him play the Raiders....I can think of only one game changing play he's made since he's been here...the last play of the Cowboys game in 2010 when he got held.

[Skinsfan4life83]

There is no "extra" 1-2 mill. We have too many holes to have "extra" anything. I would do dances if we could keep Orakpo for $8mill a year, but I don't see that happening.

Give the man his 10 mil a year a be done with it. In a few years when Kerrigan's contract is due people will argue that he isn't worth money either. Washington has a problem with being loyal to their own homegrown players and fans ALWAYS undervalue them and Salivate over other teams free agents. Just look at some of the threads on this board to confirm the truth in this. 

[Skinsfan4life83]

Also Rak doesn't have much in front of him. While I like Bowen, Jenkins, Cofield, Baker and co. There isn't a true nose tackle among them. A guy than can command two blockers at all times. That guy just isn't on this roster. If Rak had say, KC's dline in front of him his numbers would dwarf Tamba Hali's.  Instead he's asked to do much on his own.

 

RJax is solid. I like him as a back up and nothing more. The RJax is better crowd always forgets he disappears for long stretches during games as well. His body of work isn't extensive enough to say he's better than Rak. Especially when it's obvious he's not half the athlete Rak is. 

 

Don't create another hole when we already have plenty to fill. Pay the man his money and lock up a valuable position for the next 6 years or so. 

[Burgold]

The grass is always greener when it comes to football.  The back up qb gets the love.  The free agent or unnamed draft pick excites us more.  Truth is, Orakpo is in that top tier.  He has some weaknesses.  The worst, in my opinion, is we now have to consider an injury history.  Three seasons in a row he ended on injured reserve.  That's a little scary, but he produces, is a good citizen, and has improved on some of his weaknesses.

 

We should retain him.  I find it interesting that some don't want to re-sign Orakpo because they are fearful it might mean we can't re-sign Kerrigan three years from now.  Is Kerrigan clearly better?  The tandem is important.  We need both Manley and Mann.  I tend to think that Kerrigan is Mann in that analogy, but when he was good Manley was great.

 

We have few enough assets on D.  Let's build on the few we do have.

[bedlamVR]

I couldn't say it better BG (i have thied but i couldn't) I think the injury issue, is an issue but if they let him walk then I have absolutly no clue what they are trying to acheive and even less faith in the new regieme ..

 

I have a horrible fealling we are going to experience Bruce Allen football on a budget tenure as he has been involved with elsewhere ...Is  austerity hitting ashburn ?  

[Burgold]

I couldn't say it better BG (i have thied but i couldn't) I think the injury issue, is an issue but if they let him walk then I have absolutly no clue what they are trying to acheive and even less faith in the new regieme ..

 

I have a horrible fealling we are going to experience Bruce Allen football on a budget tenure as he has been involved with elsewhere ...Is  austerity hitting ashburn ?  

I hope not.  I hope what we will get is cap discipline, but that it is set in  more liberal philosophy.

[WhoRUSupposed2Be]

So, as has been well documented, I'm a huge Orakpo fan. I think he is the best player on the defense with his improvement in the run game (that could be subject to a pretty good competition with Kerrigan provided they are both healthy. I think people tend to forget how good Kerrigan is when he's not hobbled.)

 

I want Orakpo back on the roster.

 

But, and this is my opinion...

 

We have a lot of holes. If Orakpo wants a multi-year deal worth 10+M/year the team is probably best in parting with him. Not because of a lack of ability, or not liking him, or him not being good enough, but more so because of the amount of impact players that will have expiring contracts in the coming years and our necessity in re-signing them.

 

Trent Williams, Griffin, Kerrigan, Morris are three that spring to mind. In signing Rak to a large deal, we're all but guaranteeing Kerrigan gets a similar deal (maybe more, maybe less, but probably in the same basic range). No team has the money to tie up that much coin in just their OLBs, and that's before considering the other free agents that we may want to re-up.

 

Now, Orakpo could do himself a huge favor and sign a multi year deal where the money drops in time to re-sign those guys, but is high enough in the short term to front load the deal and allow for restructuring on the back end. I'm not great with the salary cap stuff, but I don't see why this isn't an option, given how much cap room we really have this year.

 

But it's all going to come down to dollars and how the contract is structured vs. how much market value Rak has.

 

In my opinion it shouldn't be a conversation about if Orakpo is a great player... Rak is a great football player and anyone who doubts that really needs to go check out more of the film. But, the question should be whether signing him would hinder the team in the long term or if the contract can be worked out so that everyone is happy. If the contract can be worked in such a way that the team and Rak both get what they deserve, then it's a TOTAL no-brainer. If it can't, then it's also a no brainer.

This alone is why the FO will not declare that kind of money to Rak...

[KDawg]

The grass is always greener when it comes to football.  The back up qb gets the love.  The free agent or unnamed draft pick excites us more.  Truth is, Orakpo is in that top tier.  He has some weaknesses.  The worst, in my opinion, is we now have to consider an injury history.  Three seasons in a row he ended on injured reserve.  That's a little scary, but he produces, is a good citizen, and has improved on some of his weaknesses.

 

We should retain him.  I find it interesting that some don't want to re-sign Orakpo because they are fearful it might mean we can't re-sign Kerrigan three years from now.  Is Kerrigan clearly better?  The tandem is important.  We need both Manley and Mann.  I tend to think that Kerrigan is Mann in that analogy, but when he was good Manley was great.

 

We have few enough assets on D.  Let's build on the few we do have.

 

I don't think you get the overall premise. It has nothing to do with Kerrigan alone. It has to do with total cap dollars tied up in one position.

 

If Kerrigan and Rak both get $8-10M/season you're looking at $16-20M of our total cap on those two. Figure Griffin in with at least $10M/season and Williams with at least $10M/season and you're looking at $40M (minimum, really) tied up into four players. There are 18 other offensive and defensive starters on the field with them plus our depth. You're talking a LOT of money tied up in a small group of players there.

 

The decision to re-sign Rak has to be a well thought out decision and not as simple as, "keep our own!". There HAS to be a plan in place for the future. And maybe that plan is to front load the contract. Maybe the plan is that we can get Kerrigan for less. Maybe the plan is that we may not want to re-sign Kerrigan. I don't care what the plan is. It's not my job to come up with one. But there better be one, and a damned good one.

 

I advocate re-signing Rak for a value that allows the team to move forward. If the team has a plan for signing him for $12M/season then I'm fine with it. If the team can get him for $8M/season I'm fine with it. But, the important issue is that the team has a plan and is comfortable with signing him for that dollar amount.

 

There are two ways I'll be frustrated with the process:

 

1) If we find out that Rak was lowballed on the offer.

2) If we find out we offered Rak some good coin and he went elsewhere for slightly more or less than our offer.

[pjfootballer]

Not how it works.. Can't just throw money at the problem because the cap is increasing, All you end up doing is driving up the price on future deals. Pay the guy what you perceive his value to be regardless of what the cap number is.

Oh I realize that. I want them to sign him to a good deal that's best for both. I'm just saying the extra money will give us some wiggle room either in negotiations or the ability to sign another player as so e are saying signing Rak to a certain amount will hamper us elsewhere. Believe me, I don't want anymore Haynesworth contracts.

[markmills67]

Resign Rak or regret it later. Period. What kills me is all the people claiming we need the money for other holes but they are willing to go out and spend money on a 30 year old linebacker(Jackson from Cleveland) and let a younger guy walk. A homegrown guy at that over an extra 1-2 mil a year. It's ridiculous. If we let Rak walk we will regret it for years to come.

Yes because it's not like that 34th pick could be used to fill another hole, like say WR, that would still be there if we did what you are suggesting. Yeah let's make MORE holes. Smh.

So you're telling me that signing Hall, Baker and Jackson for around $10m and drafting OLB is not better than giving Orakpo $11m per year?. I have just filled 4 holes for the same price as Orakpo would cost, which to me is better for the Skins.

[KingGibbs]

I just hope the FO makes this decision a football decision and not an emotional one.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I think this decision comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. Rob Jackson will be cheaper...we all agree there. The variables that need to be quantified are:

 

How much better is Orakpo than Jackson?

How much better can we make the rest of the team with the money we save signing Jackson and letting Orakpo walk?

 

Once the front office can quantify those two things, it's a pretty easy decision. If we are 10% worse at OLB with Jackson but 15% somewhere else, you let Orakpo go. If the drop-off between Orakpo and Jackson is larger than the improvement we can make with the savings, you sign him.

 

We don't know how they rate the two players, so we can't really judge their decisions with much intelligence.

[skinny21]

The defense not missing a beat with RJax in there in 2012 probably has something to do with that. I agree with jschuck... He is good, and I hope that we hold on to him, but I don't think he is top-5 material.

He might be someday... but right now he is not.

I'm not sure if you understood my post? I'm saying if the top 5 OLBs make 10m/yr, then saying Orakpo is worth 7 or 8m is saying his value is 70 or 80% of the top 5 guys... which I think isn't remotely accurate or fair. His actual value is probably closer to 90-95% of the top 5 guys - so his worth would be closer to 9-9.5m/yr.

I don't really get the argument about Orakpo and our D in 2012 - Our defense helped win our division with Madieu Williams at FS.... does that mean we should bring him back?