Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[Koolblue13]

Yeah. Cost and need has to be bottom line.

If he's cost effective for our needs, great.

If he wants top end money, then move on.

Folk used to (rightly) lambast Vinny for over paying in FA. What's the difference if you do it to one of your own?

Hail.

while true. You pay talent. Rak IMO, is worth a lot. Paying him, whoever does it, will get a great player who is worth every penny.

I'll be happy if he hits his prime as a Redskin. Even at dd millions and believe it worth it.

Especially if Haz is serious about letting him pin his ears back and just get after the QB.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Loyalty. I know this is a business, but one of your own is more likely to care about the guys around him and (continue to) work/play hard for them.

To be clear, I'm not saying we need to bring Orakpo back for this reason, just answering your question.

Right, see, the premise of that I totally agree with. You take care of your own over an outsider unless there's a significant talent upgrade. (Something that never happened with past regimes under this ownership.).

I just don't personally see Orakpo in the 'elite' bracket so we'd be over paying regardless IMHO if it's the tag value or above.

He's a good player who deserves rewarding. But within reason to our other needs and his overall value to us weighed up against another option that suits all those needs better.

Hail.

[SkinsTillIDie]

At the end of the day, the outcome of the Orakpo situation should not be judged in isolation. There are a number of decisions that will need to be judged collectively to determine if the outcome is to the benefit of the roster as a whole.

 

If he can be replaced for say 3-4mil per year less by another player, and that gets you say an ILB, its a no brainer. But if he can't, you are maybe better off keeping him.

 

Lets see how Bruce splashes the $$$$$ and the rest of the FA market shakes up first.

 

Unfortunately, you can't just assume because you're spending 3-4 million (or any figure) on an inside linebacker, you're getting a good inside linebacker. It's free agency -- how many times have we/everyotherteamintheleague been burned by signing other team's veterans and expecting similar/more success in the new scheme and with different teammates?

 

There's no such thing as a "no brainer" when it comes to personnel acquisition.

 

Yeah. Cost and need has to be bottom line.

If he's cost effective for our needs, great.

If he wants top end money, then move on.

Folk used to (rightly) lambast Vinny for over paying in FA. What's the difference if you do it to one of your own?

Hail.

 

Because "over paying for your own" means you might keep Ryan Clark instead of thinking Adam Archuletta will be better; it means keeping Antonio Pierce instead of believing Lemar Marshall can do a similar/better job given a smaller sample size.

Like Cooley said, if you're gona' splash 11 million on Orakpo you may as we'll pay 15 for a younger guy who's more productive and the best in the league at his position.

Hail.

 

By that logic, we should've let Hall walk and signed Alterraun Verner.

[Est.1974]

Unfortunately, you can't just assume because you're spending 3-4 million (or any figure) on an inside linebacker, you're getting a good inside linebacker. It's free agency -- how many times have we/everyotherteamintheleague been burned by signing other team's veterans and expecting similar/more success in the new scheme and with different teammates?

 

There's no such thing as a "no brainer" when it comes to personnel acquisition.

 

Replacing Orakpo like for like & getting another player would be a no brainer from a roster building perspective.

 

I'm not saying it is possible this year, of that it would ultimately work out for the better, but by principle it would be a no-brainer to make that decision.

 

Otherwise, you would never leave the house for the fear of being run-over or struck by lightning.

 

[SkinsTillIDie]

So back to the new stats that come out every year...

 

When does the stat "played the Raiders" come out.

 

I believe Orakpo is +40 when playing the Raiders.

Let's ask the rest of the league how they feel about Justin Tuck.

 

What did Tuck do against us twice this year and how did that effect his overall numbers?

 

So if you're willing to discount Orakpo's 2-sack game against Oakland (43 sacks allowed in 2013), surely you're also willing to discount Aldon Smith's three 2-sack games against Tampa (47 sacks allowed), Seattle (44 sacks allowed), and us (43 sacks allowed)? Or Clay Matthew's only 2-sack game, against Minnesota (44 sacks allowed) ?

[SkinsTillIDie]

Replacing Orakpo like for like & getting another player would be a no brainer from a roster building perspective.

 

I'm not saying it is possible this year, of that it would ultimately work out for the better, but by principle it would be a no-brainer to make that decision.

 

Otherwise, you would never leave the house for the fear of being run-over or struck by lightning.

 

 

Yes, on paper, of course I would agree with you. Unfortunately, the game isn't played on paper. This kind of mentality has burned us, and so many other teams in the league, time and time and time again.

 

On the other hand, the one roster-building principle that has proven to be effective in building a consistent winner -- time and time again -- is finding the franchise quarterback, retaining your best players, and building through the draft and developing. Ultimately, finding as many "A" and "B" players earning "C" money as you can.

 

When you have that foundation, then the opportunity is ripe to add a key free agent or two. You can take a chance on a Percy Harvin if you've built one of the 2 best defenses in the league and have a franchise QB. You can add a Corey Dillon or a Rodney Harrison if you're thatclose to winning a championship. Or a Randy Moss, an Anquan Boldin. We're not there. We're not even close.

 

Look at the teams that have won Superbowls. How many of them discarded their best player on one side of the ball, in lieu of others, building that unit via free agency or substandard players with a very limited sample size of good play?

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Reading above, It's open to debate as to who our best defender actually is but we'll leave that for another time .

Hail.

[Est.1974]

Yes, on paper, of course I would agree with you. Unfortunately, the game isn't played on paper. This kind of mentality has burned us, and so many other teams in the league, time and time and time again.

 

On the other hand, the one roster-building principle that has proven to be effective in building a consistent winner -- time and time again -- is finding the franchise quarterback, retaining your best players, and building through the draft and developing. Ultimately, finding as many "A" and "B" players earning "C" money as you can.

 

When you have that foundation, then the opportunity is ripe to add a key free agent or two. You can take a chance on a Percy Harvin if you've built one of the 2 best defenses in the league and have a franchise QB. You can add a Corey Dillon or a Rodney Harrison if you're thatclose to winning a championship. Or a Randy Moss, an Anquan Boldin. We're not there. We're not even close.

 

Look at the teams that have won Superbowls. How many of them discarded their best player on one side of the ball, in lieu of others, building that unit via free agency or substandard players with a very limited sample size of good play?

Well I too am in favour of keeping Orakpo, but the numbers still have to stack up in relation to value & overall potential return on investment. I want him back, but the terms of the deal can't have a negative impact on other roster building opportunities.

 

From yesterday at the combine ;

 

Allen did reiterate the team’s desire to re-sign Orakpo but also pointed out that the Redskins have many needs to fill, with 21 players up for free agency.

“We like Brian. There’s no doubt we like Brian, as well as a number of other players,” Allen said. “If we were just one player short, that’d be an easy question. But we have several players that we’re looking to fill.”

[Thekyle1591]

Reading above, It's open to debate as to who our best defender actually is but we'll leave that for another time .

Hail.

If we are talking about pass rushers, people easily forget how good Barry Cofield is for a NT. Probably the best in the league at his position in that aspect, maybe a close 2nd to Dareus.

[DC9]

He is probably our best cover backer, and is a pretty good rusher. He is the kind of guy we need to keep on our team. Now a starter? Not sure about that.

 

Never had a chance to start.  When he was drafted he backed up Andre Carter, when Rak was drafted he rarely got on the field. 

 

But when he's on the field the ball finds him.

 

I'll argue with anyone that turnovers are more valuable than a sack or a pressure or a qb hit or a run the tackle up the field or a "I could smell wheaties on the QBs breath plus or minus" any day of the week.

“We like Brian. There’s no doubt we like Brian, as well as a number of other players,” Allen said. “If we were just one player short, that’d be an easy question. But we have several players that we’re looking to fill.”

 

Bruce loves him some DC9 apparently.  Do you think he reads PFF?

So if you're willing to discount Orakpo's 2-sack game against Oakland (43 sacks allowed in 2013), surely you're also willing to discount Aldon Smith's three 2-sack games against Tampa (47 sacks allowed), Seattle (44 sacks allowed), and us (43 sacks allowed)? Or Clay Matthew's only 2-sack game, against Minnesota (44 sacks allowed) ?

 

Nope.  I am discounting Orakpo's two sack game against the Matt Flynn led Raiders.  Not Terrell Pryor or Matt McGloin.

[JSSkinz]

Rak is worth $6 maybe $7 mil a year, problem is he may be the one with the leverage if we cant find someone in free agency who gets 12 sacks + a year.

[bedlamVR]

DC9 - i know you love yourself some Rob Jackson and he is a good player for what he is . But saying he never had a chance to start - he barely made the team in most of the seasons he has been here . When he does get the chance he turns peoples heads what happens ... he gets caught using PEDs - and the NFL drug testing scheme really is not that tricky to adhere to if in doubt ask . And I am always skeptical of the stories NFL players come up with when they are caught ..

 

Watching Jackson this year was painful . I remember one play in particular he was subbing Kerrigan, the runner cut to his side and instead of making the tackle he got caught flat footed flapped his arms around and it was Orakpo who had pursued down the line that made the tackle . Hasslett seamed to be trying to give Tapp and Jackson more playing time either to see what we had or to try and keep 91 and 98 fresher but each time he did the results were earily similar - I will give him his credit he did make some plays but they were against the traffic where in he was mostly abused .... and this is the thing about Jackson people will point to his stats and say look what he did in his limited opportunities - and that is great but it doesn't follow give him more time his contribution will increase proportionately - His mistakes and limitations will just be magnified all the more .

 

Allen said we are in rebuild mode and i think it will be a terrible mistake to drop a pass rush OLB who is 27 and can contribute for years to come because we would need to address the position again this season or next and if we go FA route then we will be paying more for less .

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Just reminding folk we drafted a pure edge rusher last year who looked a far better prospect coming out than 98.

Even with a slow rookie year assimilating to pro life, Orakpo isn't our only guy on the books in that regard.

Continue on ....

Hail.

[KDawg]

Just reminding folk we drafted a pure edge rusher last year who looked a far better prospect coming out than 98.

Hail.

No, he didn't.

[JPG]

sign rak and get it 

 

Just reminding folk we drafted a pure edge rusher last year who looked a far better prospect coming out than 98.

Even with a slow rookie year assimilating to pro life, Orakpo isn't our only guy on the books in that record.

Continue on ....

Hail.

?????????? Sign rak and get it done at a reasonable price so this can stop. Jenkins?? Who are you talking about? He doesn't even compare. Orakpo needs to come back to the B&G. It is just a tough market that is driving his value up right now. Get it done or tag him. Sorry for the late night too many beers lingo. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

No, he didn't.

And here we continue to butt heads.

Love ya' Coach. Even when you're wrong. *Grins.

Hail.

[Est.1974]

Just reminding folk we drafted a pure edge rusher last year who looked a far better prospect coming out than 98.

Even with a slow rookie year assimilating to pro life, Orakpo isn't our only guy on the books in that record.

Continue on ....

Hail.

 

haha...

 

That's the kind of thing Oldfan would post on a quiet day just to stir the pot.

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

Just reminding folk we drafted a pure edge rusher last year who looked a far better prospect coming out than 98.

Even with a slow rookie year assimilating to pro life, Orakpo isn't our only guy on the books in that regard.

Continue on ....

Hail.

How do you mean? Orakpo was a consensus early first round pick.

[Koolblue13]

haha...

That's the kind of thing Oldfan would post on a quiet day just to stir the pot.

lol, I was kind of thinking the same thing. GHH is at least consistant about his putting down of Orakpo.

Nobody on this team has shown even the remote ability of Rak. If you want to discuss is it worth the money to keep him or replace him, fine, but replacing him and there will be a question of a talent drop off.

[rumplestilskin]

LOL on the GHH remark. Must be puffin' wheelchair again. Jenkins a better prospect than Orakpo? Sorry WRONG

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

No skin off my nose and all subjective but before the injury when Jenkins was leading the Nation in sacks he was virtually unblockable and showing more as a pure edge rusher than Orakpo did in Texas. That's not to say Orakpo didn't have a good college career for the Longhorns. Just pound for pound that sophomore year in particular you'd of taken Jenkins. He was the best edge rusher in the Country. Debatable if Brian was that when we picked him. Then he got injured and slid all the way into our lap. Otherwise he'd of been a top pick. 

 

Hail. 

[Thekyle1591]

Just reminding folk we drafted a pure edge rusher last year who looked a far better prospect coming out than 98.

Even with a slow rookie year assimilating to pro life, Orakpo isn't our only guy on the books in that regard.

Continue on ....

Hail.

I was actually watching him yesterday and Jenkins first step is unreal. If he adds strength he could be a really good situational edge rusher.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I was actually watching him yesterday and Jenkins first step is unreal. If he adds strength he could be a really good situational edge rusher.

 

I think because of the injury in college, and then his first nondescript year as a pro and the round he fell to; folk truly don't realise just what a phenomenal pure edge rush talent this kid was a few years back. He excited me more than any other pick last year to the point I loftily proclaimed him 'the best pure edge rusher on the team' the day we drafted him. Now folk can pull that to bits at their leisure given he's shown next to nothing his rookie year but from a talent standpoint I still stand by that. And that's no knock on Orakpo. Just a reflection of how truly athletically gifted Jenkins is. 

 

If he gets that back we have a QB nightmare on our hands. 

 

Hail. 

[Thekyle1591]

I think because of the injury in college, and then his first nondescript year as a pro and the round he fell to; folk truly don't realise just what a phenomenal pure edge rush talent this kid was a few years back. He excited me more than any other pick last year to the point I loftily proclaimed him 'the best pure edge rusher on the team' the day we drafted him. Now folk can pull that to bits at their leisure given he's shown next to nothing his rookie year but from a talent standpoint I still stand by that. And that's no knock on Orakpo. Just a reflection of how truly athletically gifted Jenkins is.

If he gets that back we have a QB nightmare on our hands.

Hail.

He wasn't great this year because of injury and lack of strength. You can't just live on speed like he did in college. Now, it's up to him to decide how good he wants to be. If he adds strength and works his butt off he will get slot of opportunities, but as it stands now he is just another developmental guy. It's also nice to remember than Jenkins started over a guy who would've gone top 10 if it wasn't for injury.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

He wasn't great this year because of injury and lack of strength. You can't just live on speed like he did in college. Now, it's up to him to decide how good he wants to be. If he adds strength and works his butt off he will get slot of opportunities, but as it stands now he is just another developmental guy. It's also nice to remember than Jenkins started over a guy who would've gone top 10 if it wasn't for injury.

 

I keep having to quote you as I'm out of likes so consider this a likequote. 

 

Hail.