Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[Horton_Predator48]

What is the price if we franchise tag him?  No way he walks. 

[redskins55]

What is the price if we franchise tag him?  No way he walks. 

 

If they franchise him they'll be paying around 10.5 mil. Skins have to pay him the avg of a pecentage of the top paid players at his position.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

There's a difference between the exclusive and non-exclusive rights franchise tags.

 

Exclusive rights is calculated as the average of the top 5 highest paid players at that position after the restricted free agent signing period has ended (May 2) and the player can not negotiate with other teams.

 

The way non-exclusive rights franchise tag numbers is calculated changed with the new CBA. It is based on the average percentage of the salary cap that non-exclusive rights free agents salaries have taken up over the last five years. With the salary cap going up, the amount to tag someone goes up. A linebacker franchised in 2014 would get 8.61% of the total salary cap so if the cap hits $133 million, it would cost $11,450,000 to hit Orakpo with the non-exclusive rights tag. This is the one where he can sign with another team but we would get two first round picks.

[Redskin Diehard]

Why do so many Redskins fans believe Perry Riley and Brian Orakpo are the second coming of DIck Butkus and Mean Joe Green respectively? Neither one of them has done anything spectacular or had unbelievable seasons thus far in their careers, from my observations. If reports are fairly accurate and Rak's people really suspect they can get an average of $11-$12 million per season for the next 3 to 4 years, has anybody thought about how many serviceable players that money could procure? I'm an Orakpo fan but all these locals who hate on Snyder and want him to turn over a new leaf need to wake up and smell the coffee and start dealing in reality for a change. All of the so called experts accuse Redskins management of not operating the same way as the prototypical franchises who have been fairly consistent throughout their history such as the Steelers, the Giants and the Patriots for example. Those franchises have never overpaid players for the sake of continuity. Furthermore, why are we concerned about continuity? Its not like we're coming off of 3 consecutive Super Bowl runs or playoff runs for that matter. I say franchise Rak conditionally and let him walk for draft picks if he can negotiate $11 or $12 million per. He's not worth that kind of money in my amateur opinion and we have way too many holes to fill to give him that kind of dough for nostalgia sake. Riley is either taking bad advice from his agent or him and Fred Davis are frequenting the same dispensary because Bruce Allen would be out of his ever loving mind to give him a penny more than $5 million a year for more than 3 years. We can't have our cake and eat it too. Either we need to be more fiscally responsible by building through the draft and with strategic free agent signings or don't be so quick to whine if management continues to overspend to get what appears to be the shiniest car on the lot at any given point in time.

[Redskin Diehard]

I hate sacks being used and the be-all and end-all of analyzing a linebacker's production and effectiveness, but if we're still going that route...

Over the last 31 years (since they started keeping track of sacks), guess how many LBs have tallied 28+ sacks in their first three years in the league?

14 -

Tony Bennett

Peter Boulware

Charles Haley

Tim Harris

Clay Matthews

Shawne Merriman

Von Miller

Aldon Smith

Terrell Suggs

Derrick Thomas

Cameron Wake

DeMarcus Ware

LaMarr Woodley

...and Brian Orakpo

We're talking abouta good 400-500 LBs who have been starters in the NFL over that timespan...and, in terms of sacks, only 14 of them were able to do in their first three seasons what Orakpo has done in his. And from the names on that list, Orakpo's keeping pretty good company.

So... 28 sacks and $5 will get you a cup of coffee. I don't mean to be disrespectful but I want game changing playmakers. For $12 million a year, I need sacks, int's, forced fumbles, fumble recoveries, the whole nine... Nobody is arguing the merits of his skill level. His salary demand has become somewhat outrageous at this point in my opinion. Just sayin...

Another point... Rak's injury history scares me to death. What if he gets all that money and tears a pec muscle again. Then what? I wouldn't give Rak the kind of money he is reportedly asking for if he had never missed significant playing time with injuries. I would give Kerrigan that kind of money first because he's proven himself to be a consistent playmaker who makes game changing plays. All I have ever seen Rak do is bull rush. Where are his other moves at this point in his pro career? He drops interceptions that could win games. I don't get the fascination so many people in Skins Nation seem to have with this guy.

[Burgold]

Why do so many Redskins fans believe Perry Riley and Brian Orakpo are the second coming of DIck Butkus and Mean Joe Green respectively? Neither one of them has done anything spectacular or had unbelievable seasons thus far in their careers, from my observations. If reports are fairly accurate and Rak's people really suspect they can get an average of $11-$12 million per season for the next 3 to 4 years, has anybody thought about how many serviceable players that money could procure?

Is that our goal though?  Serviceable players?  If it is then our ceiling will be mediocrity.  A team needs a corp of very good to great players.  Riley fits my definition of a serviceable player.  He'll get the job done, won't embarrass you.  A double digit sack guy is more than that.  Now, is he a 13 mil a year guy?  The funny thing is when Wilbur Marshall was stolen from the Bears for a five year six million dollar contract many thought that was crazy.  Can you imagine how over the moon we'd be today to get a guy of his caliber for just over a million a year for five years? 

 

So, the numbers matter, but they are also meaningless.  Who knows if 10 million a year in five years will be pedestrian?  What matters most is how good is the player.  Is he elite, great, very good, can you build around him, is he average, does he have weaknesses you can build around, is he dependable, is he fragile, etc?

 

I don't want a team full of serviceable players.  It's just a bad modifier.  I want a good team.  I want a great team.  Mind you, I do think we also need a bunch of no frills, hard working blue collar players.  You need them too, but you also need a few "wow" guys.

 

Now, I think we can argue about Orakpo's merits.  I think he's on that second tier and his injury concerns put him further down on that second tier, but I'd certainly rather build my team around second tier guys than fifth tier guys.

[pjfootballer]

Agree Burgold. If you go cheap, you get cheap.

I really wish everyone would just calm down. What I see from our fans in this thread is a complete lack if faith in Bruce Allen. He has just renegotiated Hall, Baker and Alderick Robinson to 3 very cap friendly deals. He'll do it with Rak's deal. I guarantee he won't cave in and give in to his agent, but he'll give him a fair deal without hampering the team or the ability to sign other guys now and in the next few years.

Relax guys. Geez, let it play out. And remember, when Vinny wanted a player, he would give in or if he didn't get a player, he had no backup plan. Allen will not give in AND you can be sure hell have a backup plan.

[DJD2]

Agree Burgold. If you go cheap, you get cheap.

I really wish everyone would just calm down. What I see from our fans in this thread is a complete lack if faith in Bruce Allen. He has just renegotiated Hall, Baker and Alderick Robinson to 3 very cap friendly deals. He'll do it with Rak's deal. I guarantee he won't cave in and give in to his agent, but he'll give him a fair deal without hampering the team or the ability to sign other guys now and in the next few years.

Relax guys. Geez, let it play out. And remember, when Vinny wanted a player, he would give in or if he didn't get a player, he had no backup plan. Allen will not give in AND you can be sure hell have a backup plan.

 

 

I like this and really hope you are right.

 

It's just been so many years of watching terrible front office moves that its hard to have faith.

 

But so far I think things have played out very well.

[RG3Hunna]

I was one of the people who said Orakpo wouldn't ask for elite money now if the reports of him wanting 12-13 mil a year are true then I was wrong. I still doubt he's asking for 12-13 mil it's typical negotiation tactics, even Orakpo knows he's not worth damn 12-13 mil a year. 

 

Another factor is with all these teams getting extra cap money, agents now have leverage when it comes to negotiations, I mean for example someone said Chris Baker just got $4 a year. 

[carex]

Wait, am I reading this wrong?  If we use the transition tag and he signs elsewhere, we get diddly.

 

http://espn.go.com/blog/nflnation/category/_/name/2014-nfl-franchisetransition-tag

 

the transition tag used to have different rules, not everyone has caught up on them

 

 

though I think you could use it for a sign and trade

[TheGoodBits]

I'm 100% fine with letting Rak hit FA. If someone wants to pay him $10m a year then fine. I'd match any offer up to that point, and say thanks for the time if it goes over. There aren't that many high end DE/OLB FAs available this year.. yet. Wait til cuts start. The more the better, as it will help prevent competition for Rak driving the price up. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I'm 100% fine with letting Rak hit FA. If someone wants to pay him $10m a year then fine. I'd match any offer up to that point, and say thanks for the time if it goes over. There aren't that many high end DE/OLB FAs available this year.. yet. Wait til cuts start. The more the better, as it will help prevent competition for Rak driving the price up. 

 

Rumor has it the other very high profile pass rushing DE, Greg Hardy, will get franchised.  Seems like the top end talent for DE/OLB won't be available in FA.  So if Orakpo hits FA, there could be a bidding war.

 

It makes sense to work a deal out with Orakpo before Hardy's situation is finalized.  If Hardy gets tagged first, Orakpo has more leverage.

[TheGoodBits]

Rumor has it the other very high profile pass rushing DE, Greg Hardy, will get franchised.  Seems like the top end talent for DE/OLB won't be available in FA.  So if Orakpo hits FA, there could be a bidding war.

 

It makes sense to work a deal out with Orakpo before Hardy's situation is finalized.  If Hardy gets tagged first, Orakpo has more leverage.

 

Ware and Peppers could be cut. Will Smith already has been, though he's coming off an ACL. They're obviously older but still high end guys for shorter term deals. Anyone available helps. 

[pjfootballer]

the transition tag used to have different rules, not everyone has caught up on them

though I think you could use it for a sign and trade

I've never seen a sign and trade in the NFL. Too many parameters I the contracts for a team to set terms and another to accept them. Happens in the NBA because the whole contract is guaranteed.

Ware and Peppers could be cut. Will Smith already has been, though he's coming off an ACL. They're obviously older but still high end guys for shorter term deals. Anyone available helps.

I wound only target 25-29 yr olds going into their 2nd contract. 30 years old is my limit, unless there is nothing left and we have to fill a position.

[carex]

I've never seen a sign and trade in the NFL. Too many parameters I the contracts for a team to set terms and another to accept them. Happens in the NBA because the whole contract is guaranteed.

I wound only target 25-29 yr olds going into their 2nd contract. 30 years old is my limit, unless there is nothing left and we have to fill a position.

 

 

well, basically the idea would be they sign and then give us something so we don't match the offer.  I think something like that has happened a time or two.

[Est.1974]

If the cap number is heading towards 150 mil in two years, then I'm inclined to just tag him this year. The extra 3-4 mil that eats from our 2014 cap in relation to him getting a long term deal now is easily worked around.

[pjfootballer]

well, basically the idea would be they sign and then give us something so we don't match the offer. I think something like that has happened a time or two.

If a player is tagged, the rule is the signing team gives up picks depending on what type of tag he has. I don't think it's a mutual agreement between the teams. Carolina signed Sean Gilbert and had to give us 2 firsts. Maybe I'm not getting what you are trying to say because of the word "trade".

[carex]

If a player is tagged, the rule is the signing team gives up picks depending on what type of tag he has. I don't think it's a mutual agreement between the teams. Carolina signed Sean Gilbert and had to give us 2 firsts. Maybe I'm not getting what you are trying to say because of the word "trade".

  franchise tag price is two firsts, unless you negotiate a deal

 

no compensation for the transitition tag, but you get to match the deal.  I'm saying tell the team that tries to sign him that we'd match the deal unless we got something for it

[Horton_Predator48]

My prediction is we franchise tag.  Seems like a reasonable price considering the market.  I also have faith in our front office negotiating the deal.   

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Ware and Peppers could be cut. Will Smith already has been, though he's coming off an ACL. They're obviously older but still high end guys for shorter term deals. Anyone available helps. 

 

I think it's arguable that Ware is still a high end guy.  He starts every season strong but then wears down.  Happened midway through 2012, and then a quarter of the way through 2013.  He should be getting reduced reps and taking more of a pass rushing specialist role.

 

I doubt any team will actually do that, so I question how quickly he can sustain being a "high end guy".  Teams game plan to run at him, beat him up, and wear him down so in the 2nd half he's useless.

[pjfootballer]

franchise tag price is two firsts, unless you negotiate a deal

no compensation for the transitition tag, but you get to match the deal. I'm saying tell the team that tries to sign him that we'd match the deal unless we got something for it

Ok. I did read it the wrong way. My mistake.

[planter]

Shut up and "Pay the Man" !

[MrJL]

Shut up and "Pay the Man" !

 

 

I'd pay him the franchise amount, but not 12-13.  Most people seem willing to give him about 8.  The 10.5 of the franchise tag is only the salaryt of one player more to get him, but I wouldn't give up two extra players to get him

[MEANDWARF]

Talks have stalled. Looks like Rak is heading to market. Do anyone know what our offer to him was?

[bedlamVR]

Ermm just as another thought If the cap is going up 5-7% each year sign Orakpo now with team injury thoughts in mind but 12-13 mil a season then as the cap rises this contract will seam more and more reasonable ... Hell a couple of weeks ago we were looking at 126 million cap this season it now looks like it will be 133 million (7 million more!) ...

 

The other thing is people keep saying we have holes everywhere, so the performance Rak put in at the back end of last season was with a sub par supporting cast, with a little better help around him on the line and in the secondary and Rak will be what the haters say they want him to be ...

 

The other part of course is someone like Micheal Johnson who is a real down grade on the open market with the more money sloshing around (if he hits the market at all) is gonna hit 10-11 a year which is what he is looking for with Cincy