Brian Orakpo: Current most over hyped Redskin? Or as good as advertised?

[Taylor703]

The only thing that's going to piss me off is if we let him walk and then go out and throw a ton of money at Decker, Byrd and Mack. Not rewarding your own, homegrown players just to run out and sign the shiny new toy is this teams M.O. Please can we reward our own for once, sheesh.

[bedlamVR]

This is getting frustrating we have a boat load of salary cap space Even without cutting anyone we were somewhere in the 28 million range when the cap was projected out $126 million so now we are at 133 million you have to think we are closer to 35 million start dropping guys like Bowen and Carriker and we are into the $40s -

 

The franchise tag is not unmanageable

 

We need a pass rush threat at ROLB and as much as I like Kerrigan he make the splash plays he is not quite the player Orakpo is and if he moves across he isn't going to have the benefit of Ryan Kerrigan across the field from him - to think Jenkins is that guy is being hopeful in the extreme ... 

 

The other name that keeps coming up is Dee Ford out of Auburn so the idea is let your established guy walk and then hope to hell you can get someone in the draft months from now - but Dee Ford is short and light and has a history of back problems and is your typical situational pass rusher and i believe is a more traditional hand in the dirt DE - not the kind of kid I can get excited about plus if he is not there, or no one equivalent,  we have ****ed ourselves ... Also I thought it might be a nice idea to use the invaluable resources we have in the draft to strengthen the team .... not make the team slightly worse . Someone is going to drop out of the first round and we may be able to swoop in and pick up a Clinton Dix or Benjamin - Let Rak walk and we are sticky plastering one of the key positions on the field ...

 

And this is the thing that is so frustrating ... it is so much a no brainer it hurts ... Franchise the guy, it gives you another year to figure something out as a plan B (develop Jenkins for instance) or another year to see if he can stay healthy, and if Orakpo explodes into that 15 sack guy then bonus ...I can it, it makes sense but I just get the feeling that bruce allen is to much of a genius he is going to let 98 walk to show the world how fiscally responsible he is .... even though he has just handed a 12 million contract to an unproven guy who has in the past had issues with motivation and has three starts to his name in 4 years ...

 

For goodness sake make it stop

[markmills67]

The only thing that's going to piss me off is if we let him walk and then go out and throw a ton of money at Decker, Byrd and Mack. Not rewarding your own, homegrown players just to run out and sign the shiny new toy is this teams M.O. Please can we reward our own for once, sheesh.

The difference in your post is Mack, Byrd and Decker are the top players available at there positions, Orakpo for me is on the 2nd level of his position, $9m a year max. I actually don't think we will pay top dollar for anyone, the FO know we have to many holes.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Might have to get with the boss man on that day to allow you a "final post/drop the mike and walk away" style closeout to this thread.

I think he'd accomidate if you asked nicely

I mean... maybe he would right?

Meh, we'll wait and see if anyone's foolhardy to pay him top echelon money first for the overall return they'd get; but that would be somewhat fitting if the OP's question gets it's final answer. There's been some uncalled for personal swipes from many to many on and off right through this thread.

98 certainly has brought out the bad side of fandom in many.

Hail.

[elkabong82]

 

And this is the thing that is so frustrating ... it is so much a no brainer it hurts ... Franchise the guy, it gives you another year to figure something out as a plan B (develop Jenkins for instance) or another year to see if he can stay healthy, and if Orakpo explodes into that 15 sack guy then bonus ...I can it, it makes sense but I just get the feeling that bruce allen is to much of a genius he is going to let 98 walk to show the world how fiscally responsible he is .... even though he has just handed a 12 million contract to an unproven guy who has in the past had issues with motivation and has three starts to his name in 4 years ...

 

For goodness sake make it stop

 

Franchise the guy, at 11.455 million, take away 1/3 of the cap, for a prove it deal for a 28 year old LBer with an injury history. 

 

He's not worth the elite pay day he is asking, that is why he'll walk.

 

Are you seriously complaining about Baker's deal of  3 years, 12 mil with 4 guaranteed, a contract that the team can easily get out of if he doesn't pan out, saves us a ton of money compared to Bowen, for a guy that is 26 and shows potential and will likely start, while advocating for Rak to be the top paid 3-4 OLB at 13 mil per season at 28 so it will go into his 30s at that price, be much harder to get out of, and he isn't a game changer and the D has done well without him?

 

EDIT- and the Baker contract is actually 3 yrs, 9 mil, rest is incentives, and he only counts 2 mil against the cap this season http://realredskins.com/2014/02/28/real-numbers-on-baker-deal-3-years-9-million/ That's not a contract to complain about

 

Yes, for goodness sake, make it stop. Rak is not the best 3-4 OLB in the game, he doesn't deserve that kind of contract. 

[bedlamVR]

According to over the cap as of today we are around 29 mil under the cap ... Sure 11.45 for the tag is 1/3rd the available money but if you are not sure about him then it is the thing to do . But we have also just spent

 

I would not say 98 is the best OLB in the game but his is not far off, and he is the best OLB available to us ... you don't ditch your girlfriend because they are not the hottest supermodel (or maybe you do i dunno) ... but would I like to be able to get Mathews and pay him (most probably around 15-17 mil) from green bay - sure but it isn't going to happen ..

 

As for people worrying about what we will do with Kerrigan, can we just wait to find out if he actually develops into something worth keeping, he seems to have injury problems himslef ...

 

And there are a lot of myths around how bad Orakpo is ... Like he doesnt show up in divisional games and there are still people who think he has never had a sack in division but had 3.5 this last season in division, and people are complaining about him being the king of pressure because it does not correlate to wins ... if the pass rushers are generating pressure the DBs and secondary need to be more aware to take advantage - he is only 1 man - people are expexting him to be everywhere ...

 

But seriously who, and the player has to be available is going to be better than Brian ? I am listening ....

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

What's his career total divisional games/ sack record bedlam man?

Exactly.

Hail.

[bedlamVR]

But 3.5 sacks he had in those divisional games is more than anyone not called Ryan Kerrigan had all season and is one less than rob Jackson had in his career year

And although everyone wants to discount it the hold he forced against Barron in the cowboys game was literally the winning play and he had been abusing Barron all day ... Just as important as kerrigans int against the giants in 2011 ... Just as important as Halls interception at the end of the half in that Dallas game

What I don't understand is how people are not even aknowledge he is a decent player ... I would hate to play for the Skins with our fan base

And as much as I hope Baker is the real deal it is a big contract to give to a guy with three starts in a 4 year career

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

But 3.5 sacks he had in those divisional games is more than anyone not called Ryan Kerrigan had all season and is one less than rob Jackson had in his career year

But is that a good argument for giving Orakpo the type of contract we're talking about?

[bedlamVR]

It is the market for players of his ability ... you dont want to pay it fine but you are letting your best OLB walk away and be a force for someone else (possibly someone else in this division ... without him we have no pass rush we didn't have in 2012 we hadexotic blitz packages and an offense that was blowing people out the water ...

[bedlamVR]

...and it is not like you are going to get a Brian Orakpo from the thrift store ,..Micheral Johnson is the guy LL keeps hyping up he played for more than 10mil last season on the tag and those three and half sacks 98 got in divisional games where he never has an impact were again what Johnson got all season, and typically what he gets and that is with the likes of Gino Atkinson on the line with him and much younger andf better supporting casts ...

 

11 million is not an out of the blue number it is what it would cost to get this type of player ... we can all dream of having ferraris but all you pay for is a fiat don't expect to win many drag races ...

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

I wouldn't touch Johnson.

I'd rather go with Kerrigan and developing Jenkins personally. If Orakpo does indeed price himself out, then you retain Jackson and add another young back-up to develop for depth.

Then next year, if Jenkins hasn't kicked on or is more suited to a situational edge rusher, you either add a high caliber talent from the draft or explore FA.

2014 is just another step on the path.

Hail.

[Taylor703]

The difference in your post is Mack, Byrd and Decker are the top players available at there positions, Orakpo for me is on the 2nd level of his position, $9m a year max. I actually don't think we will pay top dollar for anyone, the FO know we have to many holes.

There isn't one OLB on the market comparable to Rak. He may be second tier to a lot in this fanbase and that's fine, I just don't want to see the moans and groans if/when he signs somewhere else and has a monster season while Jackson/Jenkins flounder around trying to replace him. We developed a talented pass rusher, how about rewarding him instead of someone else's free agents...

[Birdlives]

I've been thinking about this one for a while as it seems to me this is our most important in-house move. I don't think Orakpo is worth paying at the elite level. The production doesn't match the salary and we're not a team that can afford such a luxury. I don't think it's the most popular idea, but I would franchise him and try to trade him. Probably a stretch, but maybe package him and Cousins to someone for a lower 1st, or a high 2 & 4. If no one shows interest, then let him work on the one year deal and let him walk next year when we have fewer holes to fill and a 1st round pick. Unless he wants a middle high, instead of elite salary for his position, he's not worth retaining. I would work on keeping Jackson and find another source for OLB.

We developed a talented pass rusher, how about rewarding him instead of someone else's free agents...

Quite frankly, I don't see how we've developed him. He doesn't have any new or different moves, he's improved, but not vastly. All he does is bull rush and hope his physicality can get him past his competition. He's the same player we drafted. He's better at read and recognition, but he's never become a dominant pass rusher for whatever reason. I just don't think we can afford to hope that things will change now. Especially since his DC is the same guy he's had the past few years.

[bedlamVR]

"I'd rather go with Kerrigan and developing Jenkins personally. If Orakpo does indeed price himself out, then you retain Jackson and add another young back-up to develop for depth.

Then next year, if Jenkins hasn't kicked on or is more suited to a situational edge rusher, you either add a high caliber talent from the draft or explore FA."

 

 

I am almost with you except I have heard Jacskon is looking for starter money and that means alot of different things to different people but the rumours I have heard is they are looking for a Paul Kruger type deal I doubt he gets that but that is the starting point and the difference between Orkapo and Jackson is more than that ...

 

I would be more confident about Jenkins if he had played last season ..

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

Well I personally wouldn't pay Jackson that. If he was to start this year, I'd hope it would only be as a bridge so to speak for the future whomever to partner Kerrigan.

And I appreciate the question marks/ doubts in Jenkins as it's just potential going into year two. If we're sat at this same srage next season with him then it will be time to seriously think about moving on.

Maybe Brian hits the market, finds the top end money isn't out there, and we get a deal done that fits all party's?

Hail.

[grego]

http://chriscooley47.blogspot.com/2014/02/free-agent-breakdown-defensive-endsolbs.html?m=1

Sorry- late to the party on this one, just wondering if this was discussed.

[rumplestilskin]

Transition tag him. It will be less expensive and we can match all offers. Wont get the two first rounders if he signs to a higher bidder but that wouldn't happen anyway. I think I read 9.6 million. He can find his worth and they still have hooks in him.

[Zazzaro703]

Transition tag him. It will be less expensive and we can match all offers. Wont get the two first rounders if he signs to a higher bidder but that wouldn't happen anyway. I think I read 9.6 million. He can find his worth and they still have hooks in him.

Transition tag is a complete waste. There is def some team out there that will throw 13-14 million at him as it happens every year and we won't match it. Either get him to sign a friendly deal that's backloaded, franchise or let him walk.

[DJD2]

Maybe Brian hits the market, finds the top end money isn't out there, and we get a deal done that fits all party's?

 

 

This.

 

I just can't see anybody throwing a huge number at him. Hopefully the FO told his agent to go find the market value and bring it back and then they'll talk.

 

All things being equal I think he would stay, but who knows.

[Thekyle1591]

Transition tag is a complete waste. There is def some team out there that will throw 13-14 million at him as it happens every year and we won't match it. Either get him to sign a friendly deal that's backloaded, franchise or let him walk.

Why would we backload it? We have loads of cap space this year and a lot of big deals coming up. We aren't gonna build the team through FA, and we aren't gonna be Super Bowl contenders next year, so why not spend your money on your own players and add impact players through the draft?

[martytheman]

I've been thinking about this one for a while as it seems to me this is our most important in-house move. I don't think Orakpo is worth paying at the elite level. The production doesn't match the salary and we're not a team that can afford such a luxury. I don't think it's the most popular idea, but I would franchise him and try to trade him. Probably a stretch, but maybe package him and Cousins to someone for a lower 1st, or a high 2 & 4. If no one shows interest, then let him work on the one year deal and let him walk next year when we have fewer holes to fill and a 1st round pick. Unless he wants a middle high, instead of elite salary for his position, he's not worth retaining. I would work on keeping Jackson and find another source for OLB.

Quite frankly, I don't see how we've developed him. He doesn't have any new or different moves, he's improved, but not vastly. All he does is bull rush and hope his physicality can get him past his competition. He's the same player we drafted. He's better at read and recognition, but he's never become a dominant pass rusher for whatever reason. I just don't think we can afford to hope that things will change now. Especially since his DC is the same guy he's had the past few years.

I think the transition to olb is what kept him from developing into a sack monster.. well the transition and haztard having him drop in coverage half the damn time.

if he was a 4-3 end he would have way more sacks and tackles as well.

[TSO]

I will say that the argument that Orakpo "turned it on" toward the end of the season and was "nowhere to be found" earlier on is a bit unfair and it's usually made with the assumption that he did so because of the impending contract he wants.

 

What's more likely? That a guy we've known to be nothing but a consummate Redskin, a workout warrior, and one of the leaders on this team simply turned it on at the end for selfish reasons or that he was coming off two consecutive torn pectorals and had a bit of rust to wear off on a defense that was horrific to start and had him in coverage way too much?

 

I'm not saying I want him to get a 12-13 million dollar/year contract, but I just wanted to say whenever that argument is brought up by those who couldn't care less to see him walk I cringe. Had it been someone who we didn't know to be one of the guys who give it their all for this organization, I'd understand it more. But, seriously, let's just focus to the "on the field" stuff and not apply that negative crap to him.  

[rumplestilskin]

Transition tag is a complete waste. There is def some team out there that will throw 13-14 million at him as it happens every year and we won't match it. Either get him to sign a friendly deal that's backloaded, franchise or let him walk.

 

I dont think its a waste. It allows him to test the market. If he finds the market not as rich as anticipated, we have first right of refusal. If he gets a rediculous offer we let him walk and use that rediculous money on our holes. Why not use the tag as a tool if we go with "letting him walk". We have nothing to lose by transition tagging him. If anything it extends the teams grip on him beyond Monday.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

I think the transition to olb is what kept him from developing into a sack monster.. well the transition and haztard having him drop in coverage half the damn time.

if he was a 4-3 end he would have way more sacks and tackles as well.

He was never a 4-3 end for us though. Vinny drafted him (tried to trade up but the Broncos saved us from ourselves) with the intent of moving him to 4-3 OLB.