DogofWar1 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 With Mike, do nothing at this moment. He's in year 3. Wait to see what happens in year 4. If we make the playoffs, hand him an extension. If we don't, but show improvement, consider a short extension (maybe a year or two), but also consider just letting him go into year 5 and prove it. If we don't have any improvement next year, then I'd say let him go after 4 years. But 3 years in is not that long to effectively build an organization from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artmonkforHOF Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 fire his but out of a cannon, pointing west and hopefully the impact destroys that $25million Denver mansion he owns/owned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingGibbs Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Just wanted to add that even though this is a heated debate it's nice to see it's been a civilized debate. Lot of point-counterpoint instead of insults. Good to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Danngit! I wanted to start my own thread, but I guess now I'm obligated to fit my thoughts in this one. No extension, no firing...because there are no 1st rounders. Shanahan post Elway/Terrell is a mediocre coach, but one of the best at picking mid to late round draft gems. We haven't had a decent evaluator of gollege talent in over 20 years. Casserly was the worst GM in the NFL during his tenure here with an unparalleled succession of 1st round busts. Vinny Bugeyes wouldn't recognize talent past the hyped 1st rounders if it bit him on the tuckus. Schotferbrains gave us our worst draft of the Snyder era. Outside of Cooley, all of Gibbs' picks were busts except the defensive players singled out by GW. We have no 1st rounders for the next 2 years. Allen is NOT a personnel evaluator, he is a cap/contract mgmt guy. No way is Dannyboy gonna find a competent GM to make anything worthwhile with no 1st rounders, nor do we have any cap room for El Dano to win another offseason championship. We will likely never have a winning record during the Shanny era, but unlike Gibbs, he will leave the team much better than when he found it. Unfortunately, Zoony is dead on. We will never compete under Snyder because he does not accept the fundamental structure which made us great under JKC: Hire a GM, let the GM hire a coach. Former Skin Mark Murphy understood this perfectly, and built the Packers in the glory year Redskins' image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander PK Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Extension, new DC, new special teams coordinator.I'd talk to the WRs coach, too. ~Bang I had trouble quoting you for some reason yesterday, but now it works. I'm with you. This would be my plan moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I'm less convinced that Mike Shanahan is an awful coach that is handicapping the team than I am about his son or Haslett. I would much rather keep Mike as the core of the coaching staff and adjust the coordinators around him than throw it all out for year 2 of RG3's development. Shanahan is a good evaluator of talent at least. I wish we could do better, but the odds that we potentially stumble over a superior coach to Mike S doesn't outweigh the potential that we shake up this team for the worse at a crucial point in RG3's development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stophovr6 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Nobody has earned an extension IMO...those shouldn't be given away just for the **** off it Which is funny because Has and Smith were given extensions during the offseason as if they were deserved. Personally I think we have a new DC next year and then we find out by week 8 if Shannahan is extended. If he is then Kyle will be too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pride Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I was an "In Shanny I trust" guy, but I'm sorry, I just can't be anymore. I'm looking at how guys like Jim Harbaugh turned his franchise around in 10 months. Sure that kind of turn around is rare, but lesser turn arounds happen every year. Just not with us. Our secondary was in poor shape coming into this year and instead of dealing with that glaring weakness, we sign Garcon, and Morgan, one of which is hurt, the other has seen limited action. The safety guys we brought in weren't going to light up the field. I don't know why this was ignored. That's on Shanny, and it was a bone headed move.. The fact that Smith is STILL our Special Teams coach makes me doubt Shanny's ability to evaluate coaches. I want consistancy, but we're in year 3 and there is no light at the end of the tunnel outside of RG3, but he can't do it all himself. I think I let his contract expire or fire him if it continues to get worse next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefJerky Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 He has to earn an extension by mid year next season. Spend the majority of FA and the draft on defense this year. You will see a much better team with even an Average D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 I don't know how anyone could argue this man's post. Watch me Oh my god, you'd still be content with ONLY having growing pains after year 4?! Your patience is admirable but do we ever get to actually win football games and make the playoffs with this guy or do we just get to sit and watch as he cashes a paycheck on the backs of other mediocre coaches (who he has a worse record than)? Yeah, coach instability is not good for a franchise but **** coaches aren't good either. I don't see an actual, sound rebuttal to any of what I said (simple exasperation that I said it doesn't count) but I suppose I can elaborate to enlighten you. The record only says so much about a team. You can go 7-9 and be a team that everyone expects to break out the next year because you've lost some tough games to good opponents but have proven to be a young, dangerous team that has the capacity to dominate. The record does *correlate* strongly with how good the team is, of course, so it is extremely unlikely that, if we were to go 5-11 in year 4, we'd have made any progress on either side of the ball without further regression elsewhere. My issue is simply with the idea that the record says everything and that we can definitively say that it is a good idea to fire a guy because he does not have x win percentage. That is the kind of brainless criteria that has no doubt been a major factor in the impulsiveness and subsequent lack of success of the Redskins under Snyder. This isn't the 80's, there are no more dynasties, there's just a glut of good, solid franchises fielding competent to very good teams year in, year out. Any one of 8-10 teams can legitimately win it every year, and the personnel rules are made so that EVERY year one or two of the dregs can get a taste if they're not completely ass backwards. For some reason the Skins can't get anywhere near that level and they're on this archaic five year rebuilding arc, to what? Nobody knows. They got an elite QB this year who was ready to go and win from Week 1 but this staff couldn't get the rest of the team up to snuff in three offseasons....they should be ashamed. Nobody owes them anything. Start paying us back for the patience. No one is aiming for an 80s-style dynasty... but no one should be aiming for a middle of the pack, 6-10 then 8-8 then 7-9 then 10-6 team then 6-10 team, either. Those teams do not bring back Lombardis and that is what you wind up with without exercising some level of patience. The Giants had strong reason to consider axing Coughlin and giving up on Eli prior to 2007 but they stuck with it long enough to be a team that is a consistent Super Bowl threat and has not dropped below .500 since the year Eli was drafted. The Browns gave up on Belichick, who had a 5-11 season after making steady progress with that team in each of his prior seasons as head coach. That team got worse before it got better and even with a dominant defensive unit they haven't had nearly as much success as the hoodied one did at his next stop. Teams that have sustained success have continuity. Teams that have both immediate and sustained success with a new head coach usually have considerable reserves of talent going in to year one that we do not. That is often a product of continuity elsewhere in the organization or a little bit of dumb luck. Shanahan did not take over a team with Brett Favre and Aaron Rodgers already waiting in the wings like McCarthy did. No one was shopping a Drew Brees caliber QB as was the case when Payton went to New Orleans. In fact, circumstances have largely conspired against us and that has moved the timetable back on everything. I guarantee you no one is more ticked off with the performance of our team (the defensive unit in particular) than Shanahan. He'll do what he believes has to be done to fix it and we'll judge him based on the end result. What about if 2/3rds of that is already coming to fruition and the ONLY, and I mean ONLY progress offensively is being brought by a once in a generation talent? Take RG3 off this team and what is it? 0-9? 1-8? If Griffin improves the entire offense will improve. The concern in that scenario is about the defense. I don't think you have to be in a position like the 49ers. Look at the Colts and Bucs, for instance. Nobody thought those teams were sitting on a goldmine of accumulated talent. I've kept an eye on Luck for much of the season out of curiosity. I've not been nearly as impressed by their play as I have been by their record. Their defense is merely marginally less faulty than ours is, largely owing to the fact that they have at least once competent, healthy safety in Bethea. Their schedule has also consisted of a veritable whose who of young, inexperienced QBs and they've not forced many teams to play catch up against them, which has certainly aided them immensely against the pass. I'm hesitant to buy in to the Bucs right now, too. They were 2-4 before Doug Martin transformed into Superman for their last three games. I'm not entirely convinced that they can keep it up. They're actually a lot like us defensively. The fact is, we could do the same thing and wind up on top of our division over these next three games. That may be unlikely for this team but in this league small streaks like that aren't exactly unusual. There are only two games out of the nine that we've played that would suggest that we can't do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pez Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Shanahan.... Shape up! Haslett.... Ship out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bishop Hammer Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Danngit! I wanted to start my own thread, but I guess now I'm obligated to fit my thoughts in this one.No extension, no firing...because there are no 1st rounders. Shanahan post Elway/Terrell is a mediocre coach, but one of the best at picking mid to late round draft gems. We haven't had a decent evaluator of gollege talent in over 20 years. Casserly was the worst GM in the NFL during his tenure here with an unparalleled succession of 1st round busts. Vinny Bugeyes wouldn't recognize talent past the hyped 1st rounders if it bit him on the tuckus. Schotferbrains gave us our worst draft of the Snyder era. Outside of Cooley, all of Gibbs' picks were busts except the defensive players singled out by GW. We have no 1st rounders for the next 2 years. Allen is NOT a personnel evaluator, he is a cap/contract mgmt guy. No way is Dannyboy gonna find a competent GM to make anything worthwhile with no 1st rounders, nor do we have any cap room for El Dano to win another offseason championship. We will likely never have a winning record during the Shanny era, but unlike Gibbs, he will leave the team much better than when he found it. Unfortunately, Zoony is dead on. We will never compete under Snyder because he does not accept the fundamental structure which made us great under JKC: Hire a GM, let the GM hire a coach. Former Skin Mark Murphy understood this perfectly, and built the Packers in the glory year Redskins' image. In all due fairness to Snyder most fans have wanted him to stop meddling and let the football people do their thing (I being one of those fans too). We can't say he won't hire a GM if Shanny doesn't work out. Most people thought he couldn't butt out and let coaches coach but he hasn't been a nusance during Mikeys tenure here. Granted I don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but publicy he has been out of sight out of sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martin49 Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 Extension, new D coordinator immediately. To the point , blunt and accurate. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stadium-Armory Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 One thing I think I know: The style offense we're running right now is the absolute best fit for RG3 and the combination of the two has a chance of being really special. I'd hate to see that go down the tubes. That said, I think Shannahan's record without Elway speaks for its self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Robert Griffin Experience Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 That said, I think Shannahan's record without Elway speaks for its self. I think that's a terrible argument. All it really says is that Shanahan couldn't luck into a franchise QB without a top 10 pick. Or wait, was he supposed to win 13 games a season and beat the Colts, Steelers and Patriots in the playoffs with Brian Griese and Jake Plummer as his QBs? He's a pretty poor GM, which says a LOT about how good a coach he is that he got to the playoffs consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingdaddy Posted November 12, 2012 Share Posted November 12, 2012 If Nick Foles and the 3-6 Eagles come into FedEx and beat the Skins AND the Skins don't show a marked improvement in scheme/preparedness/game-management/execution with two weeks to prepare, then I would say it's over (it really already is). I can look past a loss, it happens....but another flat loss at home? To a division rival licking it's wounds, to a rookie and a lame duck coach who's ****** us six ways to Sunday over the past decade now begging for the deathblow? Nah. I'm with you on this one.....lose this week to the Eagles and we have to say bye-bye to this entire staff. Nick Foles has no business beating RG lll. It better not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhodatSkinsFan? Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It really doesn't matter. Our organization is dysfunctional from the top.You don't go around kissing your prospective head coach's ass to try to get him to come here, then jet set around the carribean with him and go hang out with him at scouting combines in Texas hoping you can be his buddy. The situation we find ourselves in now is one where there is no accountability for the coaching staff. Hell, the coach picked his GM and told the owner what he would and wouldn't do before he got here.... and the owner still begged him to come here. Guess that same Owner now gets to fire them both? If it's Shanny or whatever other big name is begged to come here, it just doesn't matter. We have a clown running the show who doesn't know the first thing about organizational leadership. You hire a GM, then you hold their asses (GM and coach that GM hires) accountable every step of the way. You don't hang out with them for Thursday Tea or vacation with them in the Bahamas, because its not appropriate. You sit down with them (coach and GM) midway through the season and at the end of the season and assess their performance to the goals that you set for them when you hired them. Agreed... As much as I am tired of change, remove the 'player/ personel' title and leave him with ONLY HC. Doesn't like it.. walking papers. Go young. While overa;ll the organization is in a little better shape. (little) The team is sloppy.. NO depth... (outside of HB/ tailback) Our 'D' is moving in reverse. Our 'O' is quickly moving in reverse. ST are moving backwards. We cut a decent kicker for a bad one the was cut 48hrs prior. And many other snafus.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mossomo Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 The issues the team is having are not from a rebuild. Fouls. I blamed Norv for his. Gotta blame Shanny for ours. Of course the player cant be dismissed. But at the end of the day - coach is accountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enter Apotheosis Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 One thing I think I know: The style offense we're running right now is the absolute best fit for RG3 and the combination of the two has a chance of being really special. I'd hate to see that go down the tubes.That said, I think Shannahan's record without Elway speaks for its self. Elway's record without Shanahan also speaks for itself - he never won a playoff game without Shanahan working with him directly. He's a pretty poor GM, which says a LOT about how good a coach he is that he got to the playoffs consistently. I wouldn't say that if only because he has demonstrated that he has quite an eye for recognizing offensive talent. He's very good at finding guys who fit his system at QB, on the line, at running back, and even at WR (which has yet to play out here as the others have). This is such a tricky and frustrating situation because we have an amazing offensive coaching staff and some serious young, developing talent at key positions but our defense is an unbelievable mess. If we can iron things out on the opposite side of the ball we'll be golden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSO Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Watch me I don't see an actual, sound rebuttal to any of what I said (simple exasperation that I said it doesn't count) but I suppose I can elaborate to enlighten you. The record only says so much about a team. You can go 7-9 and be a team that everyone expects to break out the next year because you've lost some tough games to good opponents but have proven to be a young, dangerous team that has the capacity to dominate. The record does *correlate* strongly with how good the team is, of course, so it is extremely unlikely that, if we were to go 5-11 in year 4, we'd have made any progress on either side of the ball without further regression elsewhere. My issue is simply with the idea that the record says everything and that we can definitively say that it is a good idea to fire a guy because he does not have x win percentage. That is the kind of brainless criteria that has no doubt been a major factor in the impulsiveness and subsequent lack of success of the Redskins under Snyder. ....... I don't know how anyone could argue this man's post. ---------- Post added November-12th-2012 at 11:56 PM ---------- One thing I think I know: The style offense we're running right now is the absolute best fit for RG3 and the combination of the two has a chance of being really special. I'd hate to see that go down the tubes.That said, I think Shannahan's record without Elway speaks for its self. Shanahan's record without Elway, before coming to the smorgasbord of awful that was the Redskins, was a pretty damn good 91-69. Let's not keep repeating that lie. And what's Belichick's record without Brady? How about Dungy's without Manning? Seriously, why is that even an argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Which is funny because Has and Smith were given extensions during the offseason as if they were deserved. Personally I think we have a new DC next year and then we find out by week 8 if Shannahan is extended. If he is then Kyle will be too. Kyles contract is up at the end of this season. I would be surprised if he is not extended but there is also talk he will be on some head coaching short lists (I think it's too early for him to take a HC job though and I doubt he gets offered one when the dust settles). ---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 03:05 AM ---------- That said, I think Shannahan's record without Elway speaks for its self. It certainly does - it was pretty good. ---------- Post added November-13th-2012 at 03:04 AM ---------- I'm with you on this one.....lose this week to the Eagles and we have to say bye-bye to this entire staff. Nick Foles has no business beating RG lll. It better not happen. Nick Foles is not playing RGIII. The Eagles are playing the Redskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 It certainly does - it was pretty good. . http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Shanahan Other than Shanny's 2 superbowl years and the year they lost to Pittsburgh the AFC championship; he has hasn't done much. He has been terrible for the last 6 seasons he has coached. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewCliche21 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_ShanahanOther than Shanny's 2 superbowl years and the year they lost to Pittsburgh the AFC championship; he has hasn't done much. He has been terrible for the last 6 seasons he has coached. LOL Other than winning the lottery and owning Microsoft, I'm pretty poor. Oh, and there was that year that I sold a gold mine. But yeah, other than that, and being infinitely better than any other Redskins team of the past 20 years, Shanahan hasn't done much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rskin72 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 Well, prior to the season I was in the camp for giving Shanahan an extension based on what I thought the talent level of the team was at...and based on what I thought would play out this season. Now, however, I say let him play out next season, then decide based on the rest of this season and the next one. Based on what I have seen, and also some play breakdowns posted on this site and others....think Kyle should be given another contract as OC. Think Haz and his defensive strategies, however, need to be shown the door. Other assistant's maybe need to go as well....but certainly Haz needs to be the first......and to be honest I do not know if I would wait until the end of the season. Promote Morris and see if he can spark anything......if not, then we will need to find a talented 3-4 DCoord next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphil006 Posted November 13, 2012 Share Posted November 13, 2012 We have no defensive secondary... they knew our safeties sucked going into the season... It's a passing league and they bet the house that the front 7 would get enough pressure to negate or supplement the lack of talent in the secondary. They lost everything on that wager... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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