Mike Shanahan.. Extension or move on, what would you do ?

[ncr2h]

I think you give shanahan 1 more year, and privately let him know that anything less than the playoffs will result in him being out the door. We are done waiting around for greatness. We have rg3 about to hit his prime. We need someone who can put together a decent team.

Also, what's with all the, "Successful teams don't fire their coaches every year" stuff? No crap they don't fire their coaches...their coaches are winning games! But how many times did those good teams have to change coaches before they finally found a winner? Good coaches manufacture their own organizational stability by winning games. Organizational instability is the symptom, not the cause, of coaches getting bad results. Similar to that whole "Jason Campbell is a coach killer" thread. If the coaches we picked were actually good, we would know sooner rather than later.

[Lavarleap56]

I'm not sure how or why though - sure there are prospective head coaching vacancies, but he'd be the 3rd youngest HC hire ever, and the 2nd and 1st youngest HC hires have been fairly large disasters for their former teams. And I don't see why he'd make a lateral move to another team, a team that doesn't have RGIII.

He could leave for a variety of reasons that are not a NFL head coach opportunity.

[Lavarleap56]

Recent thought of mine...

2013 we get hit with the other 18 million dollar cap penalty. Redskins have 19 players scheduled to become UFA/RFA at the end of the year. The team needs so many players I don't see how Mike can get it done given our cap and draft situation going into 2013. Tough task to deal with in a real show and prove year imo. If you know Shanahan is your guy without a doubt you deal with it and push through it best you can. If your not sure hes your guy you have a decision to make.

I try to think a objective GM in these situations and hypothetically I'm not sure Shananan is my guy. Would it be a smart move to grab someone you think is the right guy after this year?

You can then hit the reset and deal with the cap penalty in a season where a new coach will use to assess the roster imo. In a sense it would be a true year 1 rebuild while you already have the harder pieces to find in place LT and QB. Year 2 you begin to add the players you need and it coincides with the boost in cap from TV revenues.

You have to find the right guy tho...

[Chump Bailey]

I don't like Dan either, Zoony, but this is as close to organizational normalcy and respectability as we've had here since he's been an owner. I'm not willing to part with that just yet. No way. Mike gets his full 5 years to do what he said he was going to do and if the team doesn't look like a championship contender set up for years at the end of 5 then I move on. I do like Allen as GM. He's done well with trades and contracts thus far, though I know you disagree and believe he should've known better with the capgate thing.

That's how I feel.

Me too. Keep Mike & Kyle and see if Dom Capers is available to handle the DC job.

[Burgold]

I would neither extend or fire. He's got two years left on his contract and has done little to earn an extension. Fire Haslett and Danny Smith. Get some better defensive and special teams play. Keep Kyle and Mike around on thier original contracts and let's see if they can prove their worth.

[Skinzfever2010]

It really doesn't matter. Our organization is dysfunctional from the top.

You don't go around kissing your prospective head coach's ass to try to get him to come here, then jet set around the carribean with him and go hang out with him at scouting combines in Texas hoping you can be his buddy.

The situation we find ourselves in now is one where there is no accountability for the coaching staff. Hell, the coach picked his GM and told the owner what he would and wouldn't do before he got here.... and the owner still begged him to come here. Guess that same Owner now gets to fire them both? If it's Shanny or whatever other big name is begged to come here, it just doesn't matter. We have a clown running the show who doesn't know the first thing about organizational leadership.

You hire a GM, then you hold their asses (GM and coach that GM hires) accountable every step of the way. You don't hang out with them for Thursday Tea or vacation with them in the Bahamas, because its not appropriate. You sit down with them (coach and GM) midway through the season and at the end of the season and assess their performance to the goals that you set for them when you hired them.

If this is true, I'm going to be under the impression that Mike is here getting a check and we have been hood winked again. Robert Griffin is being under developed as a pocket passer he destroyed our top 10 defense and in year three his team has no identity.

How do you expect to create a competitive environment were your coaching staff and team are HUNGRY for success when you give them NO INCENTIVE TO WIN.

Fire Mike now and Dan needs to really step away

Jesus.. FAIL

FAI

FAIL

[Geneva]

I'm not sure where I stand on Mike Shanahan yet.. Everything added up does not paint a picture of future success under his guidance unless changes are made.

Hasletts ticket for departure will come anytime after Thanksgiving. Kyle is not guaranteed to stay with the organization either. You could be looking at a new DC & OC entering year 4/5 and that to me is a mess. Year 4 is when you usually have to decide if you are going to extend a coach or enter the infamous last year of the contract with no extension aka " lame duck "status. .

So how would Shanahan improve the team with -18 million, little draft picks, new DC, new OC, possible new DL coach , and a lot of needs??

You are almost at the point that it might be better to cut bait from Mike and start the process again around RG3. I cant believe I said it but its how I feel. Shanny is not going to coach forever and he likely wont be here past 5 IF he makes it that long. so what are you losing?

Some will say you are losing a year of RG3s development..True but if Mike sucks it up in 2013 and is gone then you have wasted 2 years. The problem will just compound then consistency will become stagnancy.

:rant:

What would you do If you were Bruce Allen and had the keys to the Redskins Kingdom? The time is coming to make a decision that will have a greater impact on this franchise then firing Vinny or hiring Shanahan... This decision could determine if Robert Griffin III is able to meet his potential OR fall short with the likes of Jason Campbell.

What would your plan be if you did push the eject button on Mike Shanahan ?

First you have to look at what Shanahan started with. For the most part he had to clean house. Then the building started. We now have a top QB, good RB's, one top WR along with Moss. This off season he will work on the lines. He will also cut Haslett. Don't see why we picked him up in the first place. There are a lot of good DC out there. We were only an 8-8 team at best this season. I just can't understand what most of you thought was going to happen this year? Have a beer and take life easy We have a lot of players injured. In the next two years you will all be happy again. I just hope at 78 i'm around to see it.

[KingGibbs]

Very well stated Zoon.

There are more questions than answers at this point in Shanny's tenure and I don't know how anyone could argue that. To say that we need to let him see out the five years is preposterous because although he might be perceived as a great coach, he's been anything but here. To give him an extension would be even more preposterous and IMO these last seven games could and should decide his fate.

Believe me, I've been clamoring for continuity and stability for years, but not at the cost of an incompetent coaching staff, lack of discipline, lack of urgency in crucial times of the game, lack of depth that Shanny assured us was a strength this year and most importantly, the amount of losses piling up under the "great" Mike Shanahan. Extension my ass.

[Wyvern]

I re-read the orignal post of this thread. The question is about whether the Skins should offer Shanahan an extension to his five year contract sometime during 2013, to avoid him being a 'lame' duck coach in the 2014 season.

My answer would be that this decision is better deferred to the latter half of the 2013 season, allowing Snyder & co. a greater sense if the team is headed in the right direction. Frankly, it's not clear to me that Shanahan would actually want a second contract of any length, because he'd be 63 as it started. (As a reminder Gibbs II started when he was almost 64.) If so, I suspect it might be a contract with time-tables for transitioning responsibilities to his heir apparent(s).

Also the original post suggested that Shanahan would likely have a very tough time showing improvement in the 2013 season, because he would be breaking in a new DC, OC, and trying to re-stock the team losses (13 Skins contracts expire) with no 1st round pick, and a cap-penalty. So, under that scenario, maybe the decision has to be made now? That raised a lot of 'fire Mike now" comments -- but I don't believe that would be wise.

My take is that I think Mike can prevail on Kyle to stay. Haslett's got a contract, but it's very possible he could be let go, if a suitable replacement could be coaxed into coming here. The interesting thing is whether Slowik and Smith are retained. I suspect Smith survives another year, but if a new DC is brought in, the deal might involve autonomy on selecting his defensive coaching staff, in which case Slowik is gone. As for the WR coach, this is Hilliard's first year -- and some of the receivers are running better routes than in previous years, and doing a better job of blocking; I think the WR coach will be here for at least a second year.

I don't think bringing in an entirely new structure in 2013 would be that helpful. Firing a fairly well-known NFL-established coach in the middle of his rebuild, isn't going to help recruiting a top-notch coach (or promising new coach) into risking their reputation and coming to work for Dan Snyder. And if someone did, he'd probably want to do things his way -- possibly blowing up the team again, in spite of being in a cap-strapped year with no first round picks for the next couple of years.

Frankly, the Skins should stay the course, and perhaps make changes to defensive coaching as well as changes to defensive personnel as well. Also much of the focus needs to be aimed at upgrading the scouting and talent acquisition, especially since Allen is not a talent scout type of GM. This would also involve overhauls of the medical staff, training staff, strength and conditioning staff, etc. Snyder needs to invest into replicating the type of scouting & talent-acquisition organizations that the Steelers and Packers have developed.

[stat2883]

I hinted at it in the Chip Kelly thread and Zoony touched on it here on the first page, but if the level of professionalism doesn't change within the organization (starting from the top down), then it may not matter who you bring in because their efforts will be corrupted.

Given that, I'm ok with extending Shanny if he is willing (or forced) to drop some of the dead weight coaching the defense (Haslett, Slowick, and whoever else). Then on the other side, let Griff loose - give him more freedom and opportunity to air it out the rest of the year....what is there to lose? If Jamal Brown is able to play, then hopefully he is a major upgrade at RT. While I would like to see Griff be able to air it out a little more and get some work as a straight drop-back passer, I don't want another Patrick Ramsey situation either. If we can upgrade RT, I don't see it being that bad.

[Lavarleap56]

I would neither extend or fire. He's got two years left on his contract and has done little to earn an extension. Fire Haslett and Danny Smith. Get some better defensive and special teams play. Keep Kyle and Mike around on thier original contracts and let's see if they can prove their worth.

Kyles deal is up in 7 games..

[illone]

I read the other day that Shanny has a worse record than Spurrier or Zorn.

That's pretty damning information and any talk of extension should be hushed immediately.

It's tough to argue that the Skins are in better shape than they were when Mike took over the team. Some moves have been good (RG3), but we basically wasted a year with McNabb and another year with Rex, years that could have been used to bolster the defense (d what?).

[Burgold]

Kyles deal is up in 7 games..

Hmmm... that makes it tougher. If ya keep Mike I would try to extend Kyle. I do like the offense he's designed and called. Imagine the last two games with fifteen more catches instead of drops. Sigh.

[DieselPwr44]

NM...useless to state it here.

Just fire up the torches and continue burning........

[KingGibbs]

NM...useless to state it here.

Just fire up the torches and continue burning........

Instead of burning those in this thread that are just merely discussing the state of the team under Shanny's guidance and whether or not to give him an extension? Why don't you grace us with good reason to give him an extension other than "stability."

[Lavarleap56]

First you have to look at what Shanahan started with. For the most part he had to clean house. Then the building started. We now have a top QB, good RB's, one top WR along with Moss. This off season he will work on the lines. He will also cut Haslett. Don't see why we picked him up in the first place. There are a lot of good DC out there. We were only an 8-8 team at best this season. I just can't understand what most of you thought was going to happen this year? Have a beer and take life easy We have a lot of players injured. In the next two years you will all be happy again. I just hope at 78 i'm around to see it.

In the history of the NFL 1 coach has took longer than 3 years to win, Bill Belichick. We don't know how the Belichick would have ended in Cleveland since ownership dropped the " moving to Baltimore" bomb during the season. Every coach I could find has turned their program around by year 3 tho regardless of how bad the previous regime was. Vinny was bad and I have been on the " Shanny had a huge mess to clean up" bus as well, think 3rd year is enough time to be out of the Vinny era.

Losing games was expected, how they are losing is what is troubling.

[hail2skins]

My answer would be that this decision is better deferred to the latter half of the 2013 season, allowing Snyder & co. a greater sense if the team is headed in the right direction. Frankly, it's not clear to me that Shanahan would actually want a second contract of any length, because he'd be 63 as it started. (As a reminder Gibbs II started when he was almost 64.) If so, I suspect it might be a contract with time-tables for transitioning responsibilities to his heir apparent(s).

Agreed. I'm not sure how Coughlin's contracts have been structured with the Giants, but he was the same age in 2004 when he joined NY as Mike was in 2010 when he came here, and now Tom is in his ninth season. Don't think its unreasonable to have Shanny stay here that long as well, as long as his performance is up to snuff. As of now, he has a lot of catching up to do.

[MartinC]

Kyles deal is up in 7 games..

Hard to see Kyle not being extended though. No?

As for Mike - totally depends in my mind on how next season goes. If its not at least 9 wins then I think its time to move on ..

[SWFLSkins]

Extension, new D coordinator immediately.

Damn that was quick lol

To quick, IMO. Year to year next year and a New D coordinator.

[Rodriggo]

As long as this team has a legitimate GM to buffer Snyder from destroying the team it doesn't matter who the coach is. Bring in a talented, hungry, players coach...they'll be ok. They have an elite QB, only a moron would **** that up.

[DieselPwr44]

In the history of the NFL 1 coach has took longer than 3 years to win, .

Chuck Noll

1969: 1-13

1970: 5-9

1971: 6-8

And he drafted his franchise Qb in 1970 and it still took him 2 years to start winning.

Once again, Redskins fans claim they have patience and could sit through a rebuild. That notion is extremely laughable.

[Rodriggo]

Chuck Noll

1969: 1-13

1970: 5-9

1971: 6-8

And he drafted his franchise Qb in 1970 and it still took him 2 years to start winning.

Once again, Redskins fans claim they have patience and could sit through a rebuild. That notion is extremely laughable.

That's an interesting point but isn't it a little difficult to compare teams 40 years apart....for a myriad of reasons?

[SittingBull]

In the history of the NFL 1 coach has took longer than 3 years to win, Bill Belichick. We don't know how the Belichick would have ended in Cleveland since ownership dropped the " moving to Baltimore" bomb during the season. Every coach I could find has turned their program around by year 3 tho regardless of how bad the previous regime was. Vinny was bad and I have been on the " Shanny had a huge mess to clean up" bus as well, think 3rd year is enough time to be out of the Vinny era.

Losing games was expected, how they are losing is what is troubling.

I think this points to some sort of dysfunction in the organization rather than Shanahan's ability to coach. You have to ask yourself why are we bad this year? I blame our secondary which is one of the worst in NFL history which I wish was an exaggeration. You can blame that on bad personnel moves and the salary cap penalty. Love or hate Landry we let go a first round pick in an area where we are extremely deficient. I guess you could blame Shanahan for not predicting this debacle. We all knew our secondary would be our weakness before the season started we just didn't expect it to be this bad.

Another reason is major injuries which you can attribute to a mixture of horrible luck, bad strength and conditioning and a horrible medical staff. Isn't this the second year in a row we've lost 5+ starters to season ending injuries? I'm probably being conservative with 5 because I'm too lazy to look it up. With two years in a row of devastating injuries you have to ask yourself if there is more going on than bad luck.

[DarkLink]

Keep Kyle and Mike S. for next season (Year 4) and bring in a new D Coordinator/ST Coach, get more pieces to the puzzle (couple on offense/rest on defense). Evaluate mid season to see where we are at. If we are in the same position as this year and previous years, bring in a new Head Coach and Offensive Coordinator in Year 5. If we don't improve in Year 4, what makes you think Year 5 will be any different from Year 1 - 4?

[KingGibbs]

That's great and all Diesel, but are you really comparing Shanny to Knoll? The Redskins to the Steelers? That era of football to today's era? You do realize that they had the greatest draft class of all-time, right?