TPM: Orange Co. GOPer Says Obama-As-Chimp Pic Was Just A Joke Meant For Friends

[zoony]

In this thread I've learned that there are no racial stereotypes.

Calling me a dumb drunk mick is the same as saying that to Forehead or Corcaigh. Glad I've got an account here, I continue to learn.

[Burgold]

How in the hell do you explain to a 5 year old not to pick a monkey, I honestly hope our country isn't heading in this direction. Dude I know you consider yourself to be brilliant, but this is one of the dumbest things you have ever posted.

I agree with this and if a child decided voluntarily to pretend to be a monkey because he enjoyed curious george or for whatever reason I'd be cool with it. On the other hand, I remember being at a baby shower for a black baby and someone gave the parents a children's book... it was a sweet looking book whose main character was a monkey. You should have seen the immediate instinctive reaction by all the blacks in the room. It was so strong and palpable. I didn't understand it (and no, that wasn't my gift. Mine was a painting of a dragon tending its egg). The gift seemed really innocent to me and I'm sure the giver meant it with affection. I think it's the reality of that reaction that colors my perception in stories like these esp. when in this story the intent was not friendly.

[Dan T.]

Steve Colbert: "I don't see race. … People tell me I'm white, and I believe them, because I own a lot of Jimmy Buffett albums."

[Teller]

I agree with this and if a child decided voluntarily to pretend to be a monkey because he enjoyed curious george or for whatever reason I'd be cool with it. On the other hand, I remember being at a baby shower for a black baby and someone gave the parents a children's book... it was a sweet looking book whose main character was a monkey. You should have seen the immediate instinctive reaction by all the blacks in the room. It was so strong and palpable.

Presumably, to be invited to one's baby shower, you have to know them pretty well (or be family.) A world where I have to be that damned careful with close friends or family members, when there is CLEARLY no intent to offend, isn't one I want to be a part of.

*starts final construction on spaceship*

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

Here's the thing. I would never embrace someone painting a swaztika on a synagogue. You may say that it's just a geometric shape and that it's time to let it go, but I believe that it's important to be vigilant towards hatred. Now, if you call me cheap or make fun of me in many other ways, I'll probably laugh. Jews make fun of themselves all the time. It's at the heart of our humor. What I'm saying is that there are lines and we should be aware and respectful of them especially when the intent is intended to be harmful. I don't know if her intent was to be racist, but it certainly was to insult, demean, and be destructive while using traditional racist humor that it's really, really, really unlikely that she didn't know was racially charged.

I don't think anyone will ever be that stupid.

I find swastikas beautiful its a shame the Nazi's had pervert its meaning.

[Burgold]

Presumably, to be invited to one's baby shower, you have to know them pretty well (or be family.) A world where I have to be that damned careful with close friends or family members, when there is CLEARLY no intent to offend, isn't one I want to be a part of.

*starts final construction on spaceship*

Thing is, it was such a real reaction. It was like they all got slapped, took a breath and shook it off, then they smiled and said "thank you." What's more it wasnt just the black couple, but every black in the room. It surprised me. I didn't really get the power of that image. The family really did try to play it off because they knew the intention was just to give a loving and sweet gift.

I think we've all been there when we placed foot in mouth and honestly didn't realize that we were about to offend. It's a terrible feeling. I know I've blown it before.

[Teller]

Thing is, it was such a real reaction. It was like they all got slapped, took a breath and shook it off, then they smiled and said "thank you." What's more it wasnt just the black couple, but every black in the room. It surprised me. I didn't really get the power of that image. The family really did try to play it off because they knew the intention was just to give a loving and sweet gift.

I think we've all been there when we placed foot in mouth and honestly didn't realize that we were about to offend. It's a terrible feeling. I know I've blown it before.

Well, sure. But damn. I didn't realize monkeys were like swastikas and rebel flags. I need to download an updated "Don't Do, Say, or Think" file.

[Burgold]

I find swastikas beautiful its a shame the Nazi's had pervert its meaning.

I actually agree with that and sometimes it saddens me that I can never see that. I remember the first time I saw it in a Bhuddist Temple and how I just freaked out. It's not really a conscious response. I still get that reaction whenever I see that shape. I suspect I always will and sometimes that's a shortcoming in me, but it's one I'm willing to live with because the cost of being wrong is too high.

Edit: I didn't realize the depth of the monkey symbolim either, HH. I knew it was bad, but I didn't expect that level of reaction. It's one of those walk a mile in someone else's shoes. I figure I don't have the right to tell people what they should be disgusted by or afraid of. Look at Sassy's reaction or Bluefood. For them, it's pretty clear cut.

[thebluefood]

What kind of animal face is that photoshopped on Obama in your sig?

Whatever it is, it's adorable.

[Dr. Do Itch Big]

I guess I was lucky first time I ever saw a Swastika was in some anime so it didn't symbolize what it does now. I definitely understand where you are coming from.

[Conn]

saying we must treat even non-racial statements as racial statements

I never said that.

I said that if something isn't MEANT as a racist statement, it can still be one, or be construed as one. Because of the historical context of certain words/phrases/images.

[DRSmith]

Got to love Republicans and their supporters, if Van Jones and the NPR folks had had the same mentality they would still have jobs.

[Destino]

When I posted this I expected a lot of "what a dumbass" type posts number to about maybe 5-10 replies and then a quick thread death. I wouldn't have believed so many would be so determined to make fools of themselves.

[Teller]

When I posted this I expected a lot of "what a dumbass" type posts number to about maybe 5-10 replies and then a quick thread death. I wouldn't have believed so many would be so determined to make fools of themselves.

You may see me as consistently wrong, but I'm consistent. If it's wrong for one side, it's wrong for the other. If it's OK for one side, it's OK for the other.

[Thiebear]

Racial or not, why do morons have to bring down someone else vs. showing their own works?

Is it too hard to understand that at no point is it either funny nor a very good idea.

[Destino]

You may see me as consistently wrong, but I'm consistent. If it's wrong for one side, it's wrong for the other. If it's OK for one side, it's OK for the other.

I don't even think you believe some of the specifics you argue. I think you argue it because you're annoyed with how unbalanced the scales are at the moment. I don't think that motive is wrong.

At least that's how I rationalize my generally positive opinion of you. Not that I need you to admit it.

[RansomthePasserby]

ASKL:JDK:EIWEJFKLHDLJKHSD

This thread is so beyond ridiculous. Why am I reading it? Why am I even replying to it?

Calling Bush a monkey is disrespectful, dehumanizing, and personally offensive.

Calling Obama a monkey is disrespectful, dehumanizing, personally offensive, and racially offensive.

BOTH WERE WRONG and neither should have ever been done in the first place. End. Thread.

[Madison Redskin]

Calling Bush a monkey is disrespectful, dehumanizing, and personally offensive.

Calling Obama a monkey is disrespectful, dehumanizing, personally offensive, and racially offensive.

BOTH WERE WRONG and neither should have ever been done in the first place. End. Thread.

Do you know why this thread is still active? Because a fair number of people appear to be defending the author of the e-mail and are denying charges that the picture in the e-mail is racially charged. Apparently, at least some people are buying her laughably ridiculous assertion that she thought it was funny to compare Obama to a monkey because of the uncertainty as to where he was born. Seriously, who is going to tell me they buy that bull **** excuse?

[Teller]

I don't even think you believe some of the specifics you argue. I think you argue it because you're annoyed with how unbalanced the scales are at the moment. I don't think that motive is wrong.

At least that's how I rationalize my generally positive opinion of you. Not that I need you to admit it.

That's probably more fair than I'd care to admit.

And FWIW, I think you're pretty OK too. Even though you're wrong a lot.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

That's probably more fair than I'd care to admit.

And FWIW, I think you're pretty OK too. Even though you're wrong a lot.

And I'd like to say, I love you man.

I know you're not racist at all, I respect what you try to argue when it comes to this stuff...I think you're completely wrong but I know it's not because of a lack of intelligence or for any malicious reasons.

And you're really ****ing stubborn

[Teller]

Do you know why this thread is still active? Because a fair number of people appear to be defending the author of the e-mail and are denying charges that the picture in the e-mail is racially charged. Apparently, at least some people are buying her laughably ridiculous assertion that she thought it was funny to compare Obama to a monkey because of the uncertainty as to where he was born. Seriously, who is going to tell me they buy that bull **** excuse?

Y'know, whatever apples-to-oranges accusations you could have made in other threads, and in fairness, there have been some, we're comparing monkeys-to-monkeys here. Literally. Is ransom correct? Is the only difference the racial implications in Obama's case? Because if what he says in true, the opposite side of the argument in this thread is saying, "disrespect, dehumanization and personal offense are perfectly fine. Just don't be racially offensive."

Is that really how you want to operate in this country? Because I can tear the crap out of Obama without being racist. (Course, I'll be called a racist anyway, as PP essentially was in this thread.) But seriously. Is that where you want the political discourse to be? Or can we ALL do better?

---------- Post added April-18th-2011 at 11:06 PM ----------

And I'd like to say, I love you man.

I know you're not racist at all, I respect what you try to argue when it comes to this stuff...I think you're completely wrong but I know it's not because of a lack of intelligence or for any malicious reasons.

And you're really ****ing stubborn

Thank you. And guilty as charged.

[Madison Redskin]

yup, only black people were caricatured as monkeys back then.

I am confident that you will find other examples of prominent white men being depicted as monkeys. However, I think you will be somewhat hard pressed to find illustrations of ordinary white men, who the illustrator meant to represent all white people, depicted as monkeys. Conversely, it will be rather easy for you to find illustrations of ordinary black men, who the illustrator meant to represent all black people, depicted as monkeys. Those illustrations are, of course, consistent with the once popular belief that blacks were members of an inferior and "less-developed" race.

Are you honestly trying to convince us that whites were as regularly compared to monkeys as blacks? Or are you just being argumentative because you are doing everything in your power to defend "your side," even if it makes you appear woefully ignorant of American history?

[Henry]

Thing is, it was such a real reaction. It was like they all got slapped, took a breath and shook it off, then they smiled and said "thank you." What's more it wasnt just the black couple, but every black in the room. It surprised me. I didn't really get the power of that image. The family really did try to play it off because they knew the intention was just to give a loving and sweet gift.

I think we've all been there when we placed foot in mouth and honestly didn't realize that we were about to offend. It's a terrible feeling. I know I've blown it before.

And if the person who gave that gift saw the reaction and said 'good grief, you people are so freaking sensitive. I guess if you were offended by my gift, however wrong you may be, I apologize' and then stormed out of the room ... you'd have witnessed a Ms. Davenport apology.

I thought the 'apology' was the worst part of this entire business. The picture was bad, but if she had said 'I wasn't thinking when I sent that. It was just supposed to be a dumb joke. I apologize.' and left it at that, I don't think it would have been that big a deal.

[sportjunkie07]

man people need to lighten up. news flash here, that friggin picture is hillarious. obama looks just like a monkey there. and guess what, so do bush's facial expressions.

what makes a person a racist is thinking they are better than another race, not all the petty bs that everyone likes to throw out there nowadays.

[PokerPacker]

I am confident that you will find other examples of prominent white men being depicted as monkeys. However, I think you will be somewhat hard pressed to find illustrations of ordinary white men, who the illustrator meant to represent all white people, depicted as monkeys. Conversely, it will be rather easy for you to find illustrations of ordinary black men, who the illustrator meant to represent all black people, depicted as monkeys. Those illustrations are, of course, consistent with the once popular belief that blacks were members of an inferior and "less-developed" race.

Are you honestly trying to convince us that whites were as regularly compared to monkeys as blacks? Or are you just being argumentative because you are doing everything in your power to defend "your side," even if it makes you appear woefully ignorant of American history?

Obama is no ordinary man. He is a prominent man, and that opens one up to ridicule, including monkey comparisons. It is a universal insult, not restricted to just one race.