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The Bruce Allen/GM Thread

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At this point I'm more amazed at the lengths people will go to defend Bruce than I am the constant stupidity surrounding this team.

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Posted (edited)

Little Danny Boy is back scouting players again. 

 

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Edited by Boss_Hogg
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Posted (edited)

https://www.hogshaven.com/2018/4/27/17289736/the-redskin-front-office-draft-pick-accumulators-and-thats-a-good-thing

 

This is a nice article that basically explains my position on Bruce.

 

Quote

The Redskin front office — draft pick accumulators, and that’s a good thing

Over nine seasons, the Redskins have acquired draft capital at an elite rate, and it’s time for the team and its fans to enjoy the payoff

 

 

Quote

Look at the ‘fine print’ at the bottom of the chart:

  • The top ten teams had a winning percentage of .534.
  • The middle twelve had a winning percentage of .487.
  • The bottom ten had a winning percentage of .474.
  • Top half = .520
  • Bottom half = .470

 

 

Quote

In fact, since the completion of the RG3 trade, the Redskins have focused on collecting picks by trading down on draft day, by trading players for picks (Su’a Cravens, Derek Carrier), and this season, by managing free agency as a tool for collecting compensatory picks in the 2019 draft.

Sure, the team traded away a 3rd round 2018 draft pick to the Chiefs along with Kendall Fuller, but they did that to acquire a starting quarterback, and — aside from the 49ers trade for Jimmy Garropollo — it allowed the ‘Skins to be the first out of the blocks and get their first choice of signal caller on a relatively affordable veteran player APY of $22.2m per season through 2022. One pick traded away in that circumstance doesn’t negate the huge strides the Redskin front office has made in becoming a net collector of draft picks — especially since 2014, when the final installment on the RG3 trade was paid.

 

 

Edited by Thinking Skins
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33 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

https://www.hogshaven.com/2018/4/27/17289736/the-redskin-front-office-draft-pick-accumulators-and-thats-a-good-thing

 

This is a nice article that basically explains my position on Bruce.

 

 

 

If the only criteria for judging Bruce Allen is that we draft more than we have historically, it would be easier to understand why you're so supportive of the guy.  But he's responsible for a lot more than how much we draft.  His job entails much more than that for which I think is most of our primary issue with him being in charge.

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10 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

If the only criteria for judging Bruce Allen is that we draft more than we have historically, it would be easier to understand why you're so supportive of the guy.  But he's responsible for a lot more than how much we draft.  His job entails much more than that for which I think is most of our primary issue with him being in charge.

We each have the things that push our buttons. I'll tell you like I tell SIP, I'm not supportive of "the guy" as much as I am of the strategy. There's a lot I don't know about and I think I need to know more to get a true understanding of it, but I really don't care at this point. If it comes out tomorrow that Bruce Allen has a hidden Bill Cosby-style personal life and is not somebody I want to associate my name with, then I'll change my stance. But as a guy who was preaching for draft picks since back in the early 2000s, the fact that I'm seeing it now makes me happier. I do get frustrated sometimes with some of the moves (I wanted Williams over Scherff, and I wanted DLine or OLine over Doctson, and I get tired of guys that I see as maxing out as special teamers  - Steven Daniels, and Martrell Spaight fit that for me)), but I will preach draft over free agency all day every day. Maybe we need somebody to do that better but its not like we've been doing it too badly under Bruce so I'm not complaining. 

 

But to each their own. We all march to the beat of our own drums.

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Having more opportunities is smart.  But having more opportunities without someone capable enough to use them is pointless.  Its like getting to take twice as many shots playing basketball, but hitting few of them, because you've never played before.  In the end its worse than if an experienced player had half as many shots.

On 4/26/2018 at 12:50 PM, Califan007 said:

 

Annnnd here's example #1 lol..there's no need for me to read any more of his post with that being his go-to opener.

I've no doubt you dont want to read the rest of it lol, if I were in your shoes, I wouldnt either.

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Posted (edited)

The Vita Vea thing is another example of incompetence from our front office.  It wasn't bad luck that he was taken one pick before ours.

 

When the entire league knows you plan to take him, every team who wants him knows exactly where they need to trade up to to get him before us, and so they can calculate exactly what it will cost to trade up to get him.

 

There's a reason competent teams keep their draft plans a secret.

 

PS: I'm not saying Vea was the right choice for us.  But the team thought he was, and then didn't get him, thanks to their own incompetence.

Edited by Tsailand
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Tsailand said:

The Vita Vea thing is another example of incompetence from our front office.  It wasn't bad luck that he was taken one pick before ours.

 

When the entire league knows you plan to take him, every team who wants him knows exactly where they need to trade up to to get him before us, and so they can calculate exactly what it will cost to trade up to get him.

 

There's a reason competent teams keep their draft plans a secret.

 

PS: I'm not saying Vea was the right choice for us.  But the team thought he was, and then didn't get him, thanks to their own incompetence.

What? It was well documented that we liked Payne as much if not more than Vea.

Edited by JoggingGod

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7 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

Little Danny Boy is back scouting players again. 

 

editing pic

Maybe he's scouting Bruce Allen as well?

 

10 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

What? It was well documented that we liked Payne as much if not more than Vea. Stop being a ****ing idiot.

Sure everyone in the media knew about our crush for Payne. But that's not a reason to be rude around here mate :)

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My goodness. Now, when the Redskins draft a guy in the 2nd round and later swap him for a 5th (and change) or trade a 5th for a TE and then deal him for a 7th, we're supposed to marvel at the sheer genius of their accumulation of draft capital.  Meanwhile, being a below average team that's losing more talent that it's acquiring because of their salary cap situation is just a clever Bruce ploy to add a couple of comp picks. Picks that won't come close to equalling the capital lost to get older at QB. But, wait, that trade doesn't count for some reason. My bad.

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1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

What? It was well documented that we liked Payne as much if not more than Vea.

 

I don't hate the Payne pick, it's just the process is bad.  Nobody outside the war room should know who we want and how we value them.

 

Here's to Payne making the pro bowl 12 years in a row and retiring a Redskin.

 

 

 

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43 minutes ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

we're supposed to marvel at the sheer genius of their accumulation of draft capital.

 

Amazing, we have eight draft picks this year instead of the usual seven.  Such a bounty!

 

... but we're missing a 3rd round, and have extra 5th and 7th rounders to compensate.  At best that's a wash.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Tsailand said:

 

Amazing, we have eight draft picks this year instead of the usual seven.  Such a bounty!

 

... but we're missing a 3rd round, and have extra 5th and 7th rounders to compensate.  At best that's a wash.

 

I think we just got it back and gave up one of the fifths.

Edited by Spearfeather

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48 minutes ago, Spearfeather said:

 

I think we just got it back and gave up a one of the fifths.

 

OK, I can respect this. 

 

But our eight picks still aren't amazing.  We have one in each round, plus an extra in the 7th.  An extra 7th round pick is almost the definition of winning off the field.

 

Ultimately, Bruce is going to be judged by how his picks pan out.  My expectations are low.  Prove me wrong, Bruce.

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Rumor starting that Bruce Allen may be heading to the Raiders after the draft. That really upsets me. I mean, who will organize the Harvest Fest??? 

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Boss_Hogg said:

Little Danny Boy is back scouting players again. 

Dude's a fanatic, I'm not surprised by him being in the room with them.  For the most part, he's staying out the way of those decisions, and if he is involved, he deserves all the credit in the world for the Payne pick, same as the rest of them.

6 hours ago, Rufus T Firefly said:

Picks that won't come close to equalling the capital lost to get older at QB. But, wait, that trade doesn't count for some reason. My bad.

 

Dude is batting .500 right now for sure, but that Payne pick just can't be understated.  The depth of that move deserves it own thread for its own reason.

Edited by Renegade7
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15 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

At this point I'm more amazed at the lengths people will go to defend Bruce than I am the constant stupidity surrounding this team.

That's what fans do, try to rationalize stuff after the fact once they realize it doesn't matter if it was rational to begin once its done and no going back.

 

Not all faith is blind faith, and not all criticism is blind criticism.

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Interesting that Bruce hasn't spoke at any press conferences or anything in quite some time.

 

The Alex Smith intro presser - Doug started that one. In fact, I just went back 25 pages in press conferences & not a single one of them mentioned his name.

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I have been thinking this for some time .... I have noticed more and more when Jay talks about football operations he talks of Kyle (smith) and Eric ( Schaffer) ... but I thought it was just me 

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Posted (edited)

It's Marketing 101.  Customer ratings are trending down on the Bruce Allen brand, and it was probably decided that Skins FO decisions need to not be characterized as "Allen decisions."

 

But I am fairly certain that a few of the decisions (including selecting Payne over James or Edmunds) were Allen driven.  Not going for the Altanta trade offer at 13, was Allen and the FO going for that "future is now" mentality.  

 

The Skins trade down in the 2nd round  looks better (market-wise) when Guice fell so low; the question is whether Jeron Christian was the best O-line guy to select in the 3rd, rather than a Left Guard or LB/Safety to prevent the many TE-related 3rd down conversions the Skins D gives up.

 

My take -- if you're going "future is now", you draft James at 13, and sign Hankins.  Then when you trade down in the 2nd, and Guice falls to you, you can use the 3rd rounder to at O-line (guard and tackles) to shore things up for your QB.  But Payne will be cheaper than Hankins, so Allen went that way.

 

Oops, did I say Allen?  ...I meant the Skins FO went that way.  (BTW, look at Gruden's body language, in the presser when he announces the Skins first round pick; his facial expressions are priceless!) 

Edited by Wyvern
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2 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

The Skins trade down looks better (market-wise) when Guice fell so low; the question is whether Jeron Christian was the best O-line guy to select in the 3rd, rather than a Left Guard or LB/Safety to prevent the many TE-related 3rd down conversions the Skins D gives up.

 

Christian has to be BPA on their board. It’s not a need pick, and it’s not a marketing pick. It will give us flexibility to save money as Ty ages.

Its the antithesis of a Bruce Allen pick.

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^^ Add in the fact that Trent and Moses haven’t exactly been healthy the past few years. This was a good pick. Not great, but solid.

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Posted (edited)

I think Bruce was mainly concerned on (1) choosing Payne at 13; (2) finding someway to get back the 3rd round pick he gave up for Smith; and (3) finding a marketable running-back to support his acquisition of Smith.

 

Consequently, Allen didn't care about the O-line pick in the 3rd round, because he'd already hit his check-off boxes. As a result, Allen disengaged from "managing" the more technical decision in the 3rd round.  

 

It's been a good draft for Allen, not so sure about how good for the Skins.

Edited by Wyvern

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Posted (edited)

Looks like Scot taught them well after all.

 

 

7 minutes ago, Wyvern said:

I think Bruce was mainly concerned on (1) choosing Payne at 13; (2) finding someway to get back the 3rd round pick he gave up for Smith; and (3) finding a marketable running-back to support his acquisition of Smith.

 

Consequently, Allen didn't care about the O-line pick in the 3rd round, because he'd already hit his check-off boxes.  It's been a good draft for Allen, not so sure about how good for the Skins.

 

1. I thought everyone was saying Vea was the pick?

 

2. Every GM wants to recoup picks and get more. 

 

3. Needed a running game since forever. Every QB outside of Brady and Rodgers needs a running game. 

 

I’m not dancing and throwing a party for Bruce, but this is a solid draft for the FO and the team so far.

Edited by pjfootballer
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