Next Day Thread: Pew Pew Pew... Shots... Explosives

[Hooper]

After a rewatch, I just think Eric B was trying to make a statement early on and it cost the team. It's nice that he believes in Howell, but dude is a rookie and they were playing a team that was hardly a threat to score. Not mixing in more runs in the first half was a big mistake. One he hopefully learns from.

 

 

[MartinC]

4 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

... Are you serious?  I didn't know that.  

 

😇

[RVAskins]

7 minutes ago, Hooper said:

After a rewatch, I just think Eric B was trying to make a statement early on and it cost the team. It's nice that he believes in Howell, but dude is a rookie and they were playing a team that was hardly a threat to score. Not mixing in more runs in the first half was a big mistake. One he hopefully learns from.

 

 

Especially when it was raining hard like it did for a while. Run the ball more.

[DiscoBob]

1 hour ago, markmills67 said:

I'm a Bolton fan, if it was the 78/79 game at Burnden Park it was very nasty inside and outside the ground. Bolton 3 Leeds 1 was the FS. With the best player I've seen in a BWFC shirt Frank Worthington scoring our 3rd goal.

 

There was nothing wrong with that name until that no-talent ass clown became famous and started winning Grammys.

 

[Skinsinparadise]

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

A. Yes, that was my guess.  Now we need to win 9 more games to get to it!  But, as everybody's predictions, it's a complete SWAG. 

 

 

I got no problem with you predicting 10-7.  But you seem a bit nervous about it.  Am just not letting you backtrack on it that's all.  Heck if you win it would make the victory of being right feel even sweeter. . I am rooting for you, I desperately want to see a playoff game live. 

 

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

B. After watching them yesterday live, I might revisit that.  But I absolutely don't think they were the train wreck some have said they were yesterday, or predicted they were going to be. 

 

 

Don't recall many here predicting they'd be a train wreck.  Mediocre to maybe slightly worse seems to be what the pessimists are expecting with a few stragglers expecting worse.

 

You before this game thought the Cards were so bad that Rivera should be fired if they lose.  They were flirting with losing this one.  So it sounds like on 2nd thought it doesn't bother you so much to be in a tight game against them.

 

For me I don't think they played well.  If this is how they play this season they are a 5-6 win team IMO but I think they will play better.  I am still sticking with 8 wins. 

 

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

 

C.  PFF is, at best, inconsistent, when it comes to grades.  Anybody who says differently is selling you something.  (Probably a subscription to PFF.)  Because they are inconsistent, the grades are useless.  Do I make a joke about how useless they are?  Yes.  Is it an exaggeration?  Yes.   Is that partially because I know it gets under your skin?  Also yes.

 

 

I use PFF all the time in the draft process.   It's a tool.  It's not my favorite tool.  But its one tool.  I sometimes agree with them and sometimes I don't.  But its pretty rare when I watch a player -- lets say an O lineman who is a monster run blocker to my eyes and a mediocre pass blocker and PFF sees it the opposite way. 

 

Their takes from my experience usually aren't crazy and random.  And I don't have the patience and time to watch every game of a player.  So sometimes I'll look at their grades per game of players -- I'll take their worst and their best.  And I'll watch those games.  It's pretty rare when I do that that my takeaway is they were a mile off.   I do at times disagree with them.  But again its not like I find PFF with some wild crazy dumb takes all the time.  On occasion yes.  But most of the time, they don't come off to me that wild. 

 

I don't need people to sell me anything.   I think what most miss about them is their grades aren't the be all and end all even to THEM.  When they grade which players they like, its not always the best graded players that they push ironically  Some highly graded players they actually don't dig a heck of a lot.  And some who aren't graded that hot, they dig.  Some of their analyists, especially Sikkema are actually pretty insightful when delving into players.  

 

The grades are a tool and its on us to understand the context of it.  You seem to think they don't understand there is context behind them and just sell the numbers as a strict grade of the player.   And I am surprised you think that considering some of these PFF guys go on Galdi who I know you like to listen to and explain otherwise.

 

The grades are about variables they look at.  They can't and don't factor every variable that impinges on play.   For example, they don't factor the level of competition among other things.  You seem to think they don't realize that point but they do.  Especally if you watch any of their coverage of players before the draft, they talk about it all the time.

 

If anything you wonder at times why do I like a player they actually grade high like lets say Stromberg yet they don't like the player in spite of their high grade.  My point is they go off script of their grades a lot let alone being a slave to them.

 

I think they are useful.  But I don't take them uber seriously.  But I also don't see them as a joke either. 😎

 

 

39 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

 

E. You can't overreact to week 1.  But I think after week 1, some teams which people thought would be REALLY good didn't look that way (Chiefs, Vikings, Bengals, Eagles) who either lost (Chiefs, Vikings), looked awful (Bengals) or look as great as predicted (Eagles). 

 

I am not overreacting to anything.  If I did I'd have already readjusted my season prediction.  They looked like a 5-6 win team IMO yesterday.   

 

As to the O line, its just one bad variable after another piling up week after week.  Outside of Logan Paulsen who seems to love those guys on the O line like they are his children.    Sorry I don't have things to hang my hat on for the unit, yet that makes me feel better.

 

I genuinely didn't expect that unit to struggle against the Cards mediocre to bad D line.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Skinsinparadise

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Will VOR and SIP’s debates about PFF become legendary? 😆

[Thinking Skins]

2 hours ago, FootballZombie said:

 

Howell had a play where he ran outta bounds behind the line.

 

I'm not sure if that gets credited to the closest defender or no one, but it gets labeled a sack.

this one

 

Yeah this isn't a sack

 

[zCommander]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I hope he starts against us.  We'll get 7 INTs off him.  If he even lasts into the second half.  

 

He played against our D as a starter here every week during practice and knows our D. I would also love it if he played so you can be wrong again like you were for saying he doesn't belong in the NFL and no one was going to hire him and yet he is making millions, oh yeah he also has moxie so there is that lol

 

Dude is gone so just let go of the hate already. I have moved on since he is no longer our QB. Plus, I only support or bash players when they are on the team. After they are gone they are gone and I don't care anymore or follow them. 

 

In Howell we trust and support now.  

[oraphus]

6 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

You're not exaggerating a bit, you're exaggerating a lot. (Also, do you actually know his name isn't Brisket? Or are you trying to be funny/clever?)

 

If we go 1-4 over the next weeks and it's because Howell is regressing big time, throwing INTs right and left, not making plays, and is one of the main reasons, then sure. But if Howell is getting murdered behind our OL, but is still doing ok and making what plays he can, then no chance.

 

In that case there's zero reason to think Brissett would do any better. He's not a good QB. He's a career backup, nothing more. He's also older and less mobile/slippery than Howell, so he'd probably do even worse behind a horrid OL. Brissett certainly isn't going to save Ron's job. If we go 1-4 and look horrid over the next several week then Ron's job is gone anyway.

 

As far as quick decision making, that's nonsense. Every single NFL player will tell you that over time the game starts to slow down more for them and they make faster decisions. It takes some time and experience to adjust to the NFL, and you can only get so much through practice reps. This is true for QBs more than any other position. QBs don't come into the NFL immediately ready to deal with the speed of the NFL game, the complexities of NFL offenses, NFL defenses, NFL reads, NFL route concepts, timing, etc.

 

That's why I said that if Howell hasn't shown clear improvement in that area by the end of the season, then I'll be concerned. But expecting him to make light year jumps immediately just isn't realistic.

wait a second.... so what you're telling me is that if Howell is playing badly = he should be benched..... but, if he is playing ok and the rest of the O is bad = we should leave him in?  Its deep insight like this that keeps me coming back to this forum. Thank you for being an invaluable member of this community! 

38 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

this one

 

Yeah this isn't a sack

 

So the issue i have with this is that i am pretty sure Bienimy saw the same thing everyone else did with Wylie on top of coaching him for several years.. .and then actively pursued him in the off season? Makes me question Beanimies grasp and O line chops. 

[KDawg]

41 minutes ago, oraphus said:

wait a second.... so what you're telling me is that if Howell is playing badly = he should be benched..... but, if he is playing ok and the rest of the O is bad = we should leave him in?  Its deep insight like this that keeps me coming back to this forum. Thank you for being an invaluable member of this community! 

So the issue i have with this is that i am pretty sure Bienimy saw the same thing everyone else did with Wylie on top of coaching him for several years.. .and then actively pursued him in the off season? Makes me question Beanimies grasp and O line chops. 

Even scarier thought is Bienemy knew but when he watched the tape of our OL he said, “holy ****, ya, get Wylie here… he looks like Jon Jansen in comparison to what’s here now…”

[Conn]

59 minutes ago, zCommander said:

 

He played against our D as a starter here every week during practice and knows our D. I would also love it if he played so you can be wrong again like you were for saying he doesn't belong in the NFL and no one was going to hire him and yet he is making millions, oh yeah he also has moxie so there is that lol

 

Dude is gone so just let go of the hate already. I have moved on since he is no longer our QB. Plus, I only support or bash players when they are on the team. After they are gone they are gone and I don't care anymore or follow them. 

 

In Howell we trust and support now.  

 

VOR made a snide comment in passing as a joke, while you clearly snapped back with hurt feelings. So who is really the one still invested in the bad player who isn’t here any longer? You’re in complete denial about how you feel on this topic, to an embarrassing degree, and let me demonstrate why; because you immediately, reflexively got so defensive over this player who isn’t even here that you even went as far as to say you actually hope we play him and you hope he proves VOR wrong (aka you hope he plays well and/or beats us). That’s MAJOR emotional investment in a player that you swear you no longer care about. 
 

Work on your self-awareness. Oh, and Heinicke ****ing sucks and was one of the least enjoyable players I’ve ever watched play for this team aside from 2-3 aberrant starts. If he plays us this defense will embarrass him. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by Conn

[mistertim]

57 minutes ago, oraphus said:

wait a second.... so what you're telling me is that if Howell is playing badly = he should be benched..... but, if he is playing ok and the rest of the O is bad = we should leave him in?  Its deep insight like this that keeps me coming back to this forum. Thank you for being an invaluable member of this community! 

 

Not sure why you find this logic difficult to grasp. Or maybe you just needed a reason to dust off your plastic middle school snark championships 3rd place trophy?

 

Yes, If a QB is playing horribly it means you might want to bench him, because he's likely the problem.

 

If he's not playing horribly it means you probably don't need to bench him, because he's likely not the problem.

 

Your entire premise seemed to be that Howell should possibly be benched if we lose the next few games. But that's silly if he's not the problem. and he's not playing horribly. Because teams can still lose with decent QB play.

Edited September 12, 2023 by mistertim

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Even scarier thought is Bienemy knew but when he watched the tape of our OL he said, “holy ****, ya, get Wylie here… he looks like Jon Jansen in comparison to what’s here now…”

 

 

[RVAskins]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

That is so bad it's almost funny. Queue the Benny Hill music.

[zCommander]

43 minutes ago, Conn said:

 

VOR made a snide comment in passing as a joke, while you clearly snapped back with hurt feelings. So who is really the one still invested in the bad player who isn’t here any longer? You’re in complete denial about how you feel on this topic, to an embarrassing degree, and let me demonstrate why; because you immediately, reflexively got so defensive over this player who isn’t even here that you even went as far as to say you actually hope we play him and you hope he proves VOR wrong (aka you hope he plays well and/or beats us). That’s MAJOR emotional investment in a player that you swear you no longer care about. 
 

Work on your self-awareness. Oh, and Heinicke ****ing sucks and was one of the least enjoyable players I’ve ever watched play for this team aside from 2-3 aberrant starts. If he plays us this defense will embarrass him. 

 

It is more than just passing. That is all I am going to say on that topic. 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by zCommander

[Warhead36]

Wylie had one good game in the Super Bowl playing against the Eagles on a crappy field. He needs to be moved inside or to the bench. He cannot play T at this level.

[oraphus]

35 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Not sure why you find this logic difficult to grasp. Or maybe you just needed a reason to dust off your plastic middle school snark championships 3rd place trophy?

 

Yes, If a QB is playing horribly it means you might want to bench him, because he's likely the problem.

 

If he's not playing horribly it means you probably don't need to bench him, because he's likely not the problem.

 

Your entire premise seemed to be that Howell should possibly be benched if we lose the next few games. But that's silly if he's not the problem. and he's not playing horribly. Because teams can still lose with decent QB play.

It was actually a first place trophy.  You know.. that thing someone with your limited deductive logic skills and subpar mental capacity has never seen. Welcome to the forum. 

let me break it down for you.  My premise was that if he doesn’t start playing better, he will get benched.  It’s just common sense.  Obviously if he plays better but the rest of the o is the real issue, he won’t.  Also.. sky is blue 

[FootballZombie]

41 minutes ago, Conn said:

Oh, and Heinicke ****ing sucks and was one of the least enjoyable players I’ve ever watched play for this team aside from 2-3 aberrant starts. If he plays us this defense will embarrass him. 

 

I'd love to see him get destroyed by this D but I'm pretty sure he busts out the docty note before playing our D-line. NFL aint a bowl game. No opts outs. Still blows my mind he duck'd out.

 

 

35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

The only way EB can scheme around Oline play that bad is if he holds Wylie by the wrists and manually puts his hands on oncoming rushers.

[mistertim]

9 minutes ago, oraphus said:

It was actually a first place trophy.  You know.. that thing someone with your limited deductive logic skills and subpar mental capacity has never seen. Welcome to the forum. 

let me break it down for you.  My premise was that if he doesn’t start playing better, he will get benched.  It’s just common sense.  Obviously if he plays better but the rest of the o is the real issue, he won’t.  Also.. sky is blue 

 

And my premise is he's not going to get benched unless he starts playing horribly, which he didn't yesterday. So he would have to take major and consistent steps backwards to even get close to being benched.

 

Benching a talented young QB who has barely started any games because he's...playing like a young QB who has barely started any games, would be idiotic.

 

And the "Ron's job is on the line" angle is dumb too. If we're bad enough down the stretch to the point where Ron feels he needs to bench Howell and start a career backup in Brissett, then his job here is already 100% lost.

[JSSkinz]

It worries me that EB wanted a guy like Wylie here, It's also upsetting that we're on the hook for over $7.5 MM in dead cap if we need to cut him after the season.

 

This signing looked so bad from the jump, why sign a guard who only played tackle due to other players getting injured, and then give him $12MM guaranteed.

 

Another really dumb decision by our FO.

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

It worries me that EB wanted a guy like Wylie here, It's also upsetting that we're on the hook for over $7.5 MM in dead cap if we need to cut him after the season.

 

This signing looked so bad from the jump, why sign a guard who only played tackle due to other players getting injured, and then give him $12MM guaranteed.

 

Another really dumb decision by our FO.

That's why we need a real GM/personnel person. When your coach(es) are in charge of personnel you see these kind of dumb shortsighted moves.

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, zCommander said:

He played against our D as a starter here every week during practice and knows our D. I

Flip side: they know him.  I’ll bet on Jack to solve Haddock, and Payne, Allen and Sweat to blow him up.

 

I want him to play against us because Ridder doesn’t look to be good and Haddock is appreciably worse. Gives us a better chance to win.

 

Also, if Rodgers is hurt and doesn’t play for the Jets when we play them, that would be good too….

[Warhead36]

Oh man I'd be salivating if this defense could play Heinicke. It would be an ass whooping.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

6 minutes ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Flip side: they know him.  I’ll bet on Jack to solve Haddock, and Payne, Allen and Sweat to blow him up.

 

I want him to play against us because Ridder doesn’t look to be good and Haddock is appreciably worse. Gives us a better chance to win.

 

Also, if Rodgers is hurt and doesn’t play for the Jets when we play them, that would be good too….

 

Sounds like it might be an Achilles for Rodgers.

 

Btw, all the different names for our former QB are so confusing. I legitimately thought there was a QB named Haddock that I had not heard of for like 5 seconds. I also just realized that Ridder threw 9 passes to RB's and only 4 to the pass catchers they drafted at #4 and #8 overall. I don't think that's a problem with the pass catchers...

Edited September 12, 2023 by Always A Commander Never A Captain

[bh32]

21 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

That's why we need a real GM/personnel person. When your coach(es) are in charge of personnel you see these kind of dumb shortsighted moves.

Just like keeping Logan Thomas on the roster even though his salary is high and has lost 2 steps.

Edited September 12, 2023 by bh32