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Trump on Trial (Trump indicted for a fourth time in Georgia. Expands his record of most indictments by a former president)

Cooked Crack

By Cooked Crack
in The Tailgate

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Will Trump be convicted in any of his cases?  

31 members have voted

  1. 1. Will Trump be convicted in any of his cases?

    • Yes. He's going 4 for 4. (including Georgia)
      6
    • He's going to lose 3
      5
    • Two for sure
      8
    • He's only going to get convicted in one
      1
    • No. He's going to skate
      11

This poll is closed to new votes


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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted
55 minutes ago, Fergasun said:

@PleaseBlitz

And yet, why is he not charged?  

 

"We just want a slam dunk case..."?  

Well I think it should be that way now.  Move to the next step 


The people that wrote it are former, not current, US prosecutors. They don’t have the power to do anything, and they also have only seen the evidence that is public (largely through prior court filings), so the actual DOJ may have other evidence. Finally, this is a prosecution memo on a website, so if they have something wrong, there aren’t major consequences. Meanwhile the actual DOJ sure as hell better have every i dotted and t crossed if they are going to indict a former and potentially future POTUS. 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
22 minutes ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Meanwhile the actual DOJ sure as hell better have every i dotted and t crossed if they are going to indict a former and potentially future POTUS. 

It baffles me how many people don’t seem to intuitively understand this 

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Bang

Bang

Posted
Posted

Sure they should, but this guy has literally confessed dozens of times over to so many different crimes, the mountains of evidence otherwise, the i's are dotted so many times there's holes in the paper. He is and has been actively flaunting judge's orders, and is playing hide and seek with documents described as 'so classified we can't even tell you what they are."
Maybe they are just hoping he dies soon, and i'm only being sarcastic a little bit.

 

~Bang

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mistertim

mistertim

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

Here is a ridiculously deep dive into potential charges in the documents/Espionage Act case.

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/just-security-model-prosecution-memo-trump-classified-documents-second-edition-june-2023.pdf

 

After reading through some of this I will be absolutely flabbergasted and appalled if Trump isn't indicted. And the kind of precedent that would set for future presidents: you can basically do anything you want, including divulge secrets to people who you shouldn't, because you're POTUS and you're completely above the law. It would essentially make them more or less a king.

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TheGreatBuzz

TheGreatBuzz

Posted
Posted
30 minutes ago, tshile said:

It baffles me how many people don’t seem to intuitively understand this 

 

I think everyone knows it is that way but are just venting because supposedly everyone is equal under the law but........

 

*spoilers for dramatic effect*

 

Spoiler

They aren't. 

 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, TheGreatBuzz said:

 

I think everyone knows it is that way but are just venting because supposedly everyone is equal under the law but........

 

*spoilers for dramatic effect*

 

  Hide contents

They aren't. 

 

Idk, plenty of people are including accusations about them dragging their feet or other things. 
 

and this “equal under the law” seems so overdone. There’s a difference between filing charges and what happens in a trial. He’ll be equal to everyone else once a trial begins. 
 

But it should be obvious why filing charges has a higher bar… 

Not to mention DOJ is notorious for taking forever to do things, even in normal cases. It’s their reputation. 
 

so is getting it right and having a high success rate. 
 

it’s almost like the those two parts of their reputation go together ;) 

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted (edited)
43 minutes ago, tshile said:

It baffles me how many people don’t seem to intuitively understand this 


Yea.  I think most people will point to the notion that everyone is equal in the eyes of the law.  That is true to an extent but not entirely true in practice.  It is more of an aspirational ideal.  As with so many things during the Trump era, it reminds me of the writing of George Orwell, in this case the famous line from Animal Farm:  "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

 

34 minutes ago, Bang said:

Sure they should, but this guy has literally confessed dozens of times over to so many different crimes, the mountains of evidence otherwise, the i's are dotted so many times there's holes in the paper. He is and has been actively flaunting judge's orders, and is playing hide and seek with documents described as 'so classified we can't even tell you what they are."
Maybe they are just hoping he dies soon, and i'm only being sarcastic a little bit.

 

~Bang

 

Yea, well, this is the difference between the court of public opinion, civil court, and criminal court.  Much of the public is already convinced, because as you said, Trump brags about his misdeeds, is sloppy as hell as a criminal, and there is a mountain of evidence in the public domain (but not all of the evidence).  So most people see that and conclude the guy is just guilty as hell, because that is the most reasonable takeaway.  The standard, on the other hand, in a criminal proceeding is "beyond a reasonable doubt" which is a far higher standard.  And if the DOJ brings it and fails, that will amazingly strengthen Trump (because "being charged but not being convicted of espionage and obstruction of justice" is evidently a POTUS qualification) and we can't have that. 

 

25 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

After reading through some of this I will be absolutely flabbergasted and appalled if Trump isn't indicted. And the kind of precedent that would set for future presidents: you can basically do anything you want, including divulge secrets to people who you shouldn't, because you're POTUS and you're completely above the law. It would essentially make them more or less a king.

 

Total agreement. 

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PokerPacker

PokerPacker

Posted
Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, tshile said:

It baffles me how many people don’t seem to intuitively understand this 

I don't think it's that people don't understand, it's that we're just ****ing sick of watching the corrupt free to do as they please and continue to lie cheat and steal with impunity.  How many years have we been seeing articles of "We got him this time" only to see nothing happen?  How many years ago was it that we got that NYT article on his inflating property value to get fraudulent loans and deflating values to evade taxes?  And we're just sitting here on the sidelines with our thumbs up our butts watching absolutely nothing happen to him ever.  His corruption dates back decades and decades and still hasn't seen the inside of criminal court.  I'm ready for this child rapist to finally face some form of justice for one of his countless crimes he has committed for decades and continues to commit to this day.

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China

China

Posted
Posted

The Lying Liar's List of Lies
1. There were no boxes at Mar-a-Lago
2. Other people brought those boxes to Mar-a-Lago
3. Archives could have retrieved the boxes anytime they wanted
4. All the documents in the boxes were declassified
5. I was protecting the boxes for the Archives (I bought a padlock)
6. The boxes were planted by the FBI
7. Obama had more boxes
8.The documents should not have been classified in the first place
9. The documents were already returned.
10. They were my documents
11. There was a standing order that any documents I took out of the Oval Office were automatically declassified
12. Mishandled and rushed move by GSA
13. Invented hoax because J6 Committee ratings were dropping
14. Laws against espionage are wrong
15. Documents are protected by Client-attorney Privilege
16. Documents are protected by Executive Privilege
17. Not only were the FBI wrong in taking them - they better give them back
18. The sensitivity of the documents has expired.
19. Like President Nixon said, "if the president does it, then it is not illegal."
20. I don't believe in the classification system
21. It was an assassination plot
22. Charging Trump would cause so much mayhem it would be a monstrous mistake
23. Every President takes classified documents with them when they leave
24. Mark Meadows planted the documents.
25. I couldn't trust National Archives with the documents because they're controlled by Biden and Obama
26. Only a limited number of Mar-a-Lago staff had access to the documents
27. The documents were for a personal memoir.
28. If it was so serious, why did the FBI take so long to search Mar-a-Lago?
29. Not serious because affidavit for warrant didn't mention nuclear secrets.
30. Nothing illegal was happening, it was only about documents.
31. Trump is not stupid enough to have committed such a crime.
32. Liz Cheney went back in time after losing the primary to order the FBI to raid Trump.
33. DoJ was actually looking for Hillary's E-mails.
34. NARA could have simply kept asking for the documents to be returned.
35. The crime of espionage is really quite mundane.
36. It was the FBI who took the documents out of the cartons, dropped them and spread them on carpet.
37. I couldn't trust the Pentagon to store and dispose of these documents so I HAD to keep them.
38. Keeping government documents at Mar-a-Lago is like having overdue library books.
39. The classified documents at Mar-a-Lago were en route to his Presidential Library.
40. The real issue are leaks to the media that Trump had these top secret documents.
41. Government has to prove documents are classified.
42. Cannot talk about declassifying documents because it could be our criminal defense.
43. DoJ has to give the classified documents back because I wrote on them.
44. The documents were mostly newspapers.
45. I can declassify documents just by thinking about it.
46. I'm protected by God as a bastion against the evils of a secular world.
47. George H. Bush hid government docs in a Chinese restaurant in a bowling alley.
48. Hunter Biden.
49. I designated seized Mar-a-Lago documents as personal records
50. They can't charge me because I'm running for President.
51. It's OK because I stole the documents openly and transparently.
52. Law enforcement should focus on murders instead of this.
53. Bill Clinton used to keep tapes in a sock drawer.
54. Biden did it also.
55. Jack Smith may very well turn out to be a criminal.
56. I enjoyed collecting hundreds of folders marked classified as cool keepsakes?
57. I needed the classified folders to block a light on my nightstand that had been keeping me awake late at night.
58. I have a right to take stuff.
59. They had to pay Nixon $18 million when they took back his stuff.
60. Everything I did was right.
61. I'm at least as innocent as Mike Pence.
62. DoJ guilty of corruption and overreach.

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PleaseBlitz

PleaseBlitz

Posted
Posted
24 minutes ago, Ball Security said:

His current lawyer is named Jim Trusty. Pretty sure that Vince Gillian had that name as runner up to Saul Goodman.

 

Trusty actually appears to be extremely competent and was a long-time former DOJ prosecutor.  

 

9 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

TFG's lawyer Halligan was on Faux news saying that DOJ isn't sharing any information. She's not so smart, defense lawyers don't get information until after indictment then during discovery. Saw this on MSNBC Nicole Wallace's show.

 

Ms. Halligan, on the other hand, appears to have the job because she's pretty attractive and that matters deeply to Trump.  Or, as Above the Law delicately put it when discussing the infighting among Trump's lawyers:

 

Quote

Another complained that the presence of Lindsey Halligan, a telegenic young lawyer with scant litigation experience, “waters down the honor to represent a president.”

 

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tshile

tshile

Posted
Posted

I’m on the way to the DOJ to meet with prosecutors about serious criminal charges being filed against my client, the former president of the united states

 

This occasion demands my low cut red suite

 

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China

China

Posted
Posted

Exclusive: Mar-a-Lago pool flood raises suspicions among prosecutors in Trump classified documents case


An employee at Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago residence drained the resort’s swimming pool last October and ended up flooding a room where computer servers containing surveillance video logs were kept, sources familiar with the matter told CNN.

 

While it’s unclear if the room was intentionally flooded or if it happened by mistake, the incident occurred amid a series of events that federal prosecutors found suspicious.

 

At least one witness has been asked by prosecutors about the flooded server room as part of the federal investigation into Trump’s handling of classified documents, according to one of the sources.

 

The incident, which has not been previously reported, came roughly two months after the FBI retrieved hundreds of classified documents from the Florida residence and as prosecutors obtained surveillance footage to track how White House records were moved around the resort. Prosecutors have been examining any effort to obstruct the Justice Department’s investigation after Trump received a subpoena in May 2022 for classified documents.

 

Prosecutors have heard testimony that the IT equipment in the room was not damaged in the flood, according to one source.

 

Yet the flooded room as well as conversations and actions by Trump’s employees while the criminal investigation bore down on the club has caught the attention of prosecutors. The circumstances may factor into a possible obstruction conspiracy case, multiple sources tell CNN, as investigators try to determine whether the events of last year around Mar-a-Lago indicate that Trump or a small group of people working for him, took steps to try to interfere with the Justice Department’s evidence-gathering.

 

Prosecutors from the special counsel’s office have focused their obstruction inquiries around Trump, Trump’s body man Walt Nauta and a maintenance worker who helped Nauta move boxes of classified documents ahead of federal agents searching the property last summer, and potentially others, sources told CNN.

 

The sources say that the maintenance worker is the person who drained the pool that led to the flooding of the IT room where the surveillance footage was held.

 

Last month, longtime Trump Organization executives Matthew Calamari Sr. and his son Matthew Calamari Jr., who each held senior roles overseeing security at Trump properties and the surveillance of the Florida club, appeared before the grand jury.

 

At the time, Investigators were interested in both the maintenance worker’s conversations and a text message from Nauta to Calamari Sr. where Nauta asked to talk. An attorney for Nauta declined to comment for this story. A spokesman for Trump and an attorney representing the maintenance worker did not immediately respond to a request to comment.

 

In addition to asking about the surveillance tapes, prosecutors have questioned witnesses about Nauta and the maintenance worker moving boxes after the Justice Department first subpoenaed Trump for classified documents last May.

 

Click on the link for the full article

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