The Official 2023 ES Free Agency Thread... available until Free Agency 2024 begins

[moondog]

I honestly don’t understand cutting McCain. Not that he was some great player. But he was a solid piece that showed to be effective in the slot and down by the LOS in the run game last year. 
 

He’s a guy that can move around from safety to corner. Obviously our safety room is pretty stacked and we should bring back Reaves. But the corner group is pretty weak and McCain can help there and provide injury depth to both the safety and corner group. 
 

Ultimately I think it only saves us about $3M which is the main reason it surprised me. I feel like he adds $3M of value to the team more so than whatever we end up with based on the money saved. 
 

Not super upset about it, just kinda surprised. 

[Ball Security]

4 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Logan Paulson said he thought they could get a 1st. That seems wishful thinking. My guess would be a 2+3 or a 2+4

There are two teams (Det and Sea) who have expressed a need for DT and they both have two first round picks.  
 

Last offseason, the question was can we get more than a third for him.  After his 2022 play and the situation I mention above, I would not be surprised if they ended up with a first.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

8 minutes ago, moondog said:

I honestly don’t understand cutting McCain. Not that he was some great player. But he was a solid piece that showed to be effective in the slot and down by the LOS in the run game last year. 
 

He’s a guy that can move around from safety to corner. Obviously our safety room is pretty stacked and we should bring back Reaves. But the corner group is pretty weak and McCain can help there and provide injury depth to both the safety and corner group. 
 

Ultimately I think it only saves us about $3M which is the main reason it surprised me. I feel like he adds $3M of value to the team more so than whatever we end up with based on the money saved. 
 

Not super upset about it, just kinda surprised. 

 

I do agree the timing is a little odd. It could be he asked for it? Maybe he wanted to go to another team that would let him play safety again?

[RabidFan]

There's always Troy Apke.  

 

McCain did well near the LOS but was burned a lot in open space so if youngins like Holmes or Johnson can do the same for cheaper than I can see what it happened.

 

Since we tagged Payne, I can see some more extensions/restructures/cuts coming so we can hopefully fill bigger holes where we have them in OL and LB.

[Est.1974]

Something to consider :

 

The new CBA the NFL and NFLPA agreed to recently mandates a minimum spending threshold for teams of 90% of the cap. But there’s a caveat: That 90% runs over a three-year period, not on a yearly basis.

 

That means (for example) that teams don’t have to spend 90% of this year’s established cap of $225 million. In reality, there’s a three-year period that runs from 2021 to 2023 in which the cap amounts to around 615.5 million. Teams must spend 90% of that number.

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Est.1974

[NickyJ]

Cutting McCain is pinching pennies. You know why they're trying to get all that cap room? Derek Carr.

[MartinC]

4 hours ago, moondog said:

I honestly don’t understand cutting McCain. Not that he was some great player. But he was a solid piece that showed to be effective in the slot and down by the LOS in the run game last year. 
 

He’s a guy that can move around from safety to corner. Obviously our safety room is pretty stacked and we should bring back Reaves. But the corner group is pretty weak and McCain can help there and provide injury depth to both the safety and corner group. 
 

Ultimately I think it only saves us about $3M which is the main reason it surprised me. I feel like he adds $3M of value to the team more so than whatever we end up with based on the money saved. 
 

Not super upset about it, just kinda surprised. 

Derrick Forrest had passed him on the depth chart and is (I assume) pencilled in at deep safety. Then add in we have Curl who is much much better than McCain in the box (and Reaves is better as well for that matter). We basically went with younger and cheaper - and I would argue better. Forrest was a very pleasant surprise last year.

[justice98]

5 hours ago, moondog said:

I honestly don’t understand cutting McCain. Not that he was some great player. But he was a solid piece that showed to be effective in the slot and down by the LOS in the run game last year. 
 

He’s a guy that can move around from safety to corner. Obviously our safety room is pretty stacked and we should bring back Reaves. But the corner group is pretty weak and McCain can help there and provide injury depth to both the safety and corner group. 
 

Ultimately I think it only saves us about $3M which is the main reason it surprised me. I feel like he adds $3M of value to the team more so than whatever we end up with based on the money saved. 
 

Not super upset about it, just kinda surprised. 

 

I almost wouldn't have touched the defense, other than looking for another corner and LB.  Their pass defense down the stretch was pretty exceptional.  Fourth overall in pass defense, and after week 5, they gave up >200 yards passing only twice in the last 13 games.  I'm fan of maintaining depth rather than feeling like you can dump people because you have it.  Keep all that safety depth unless the cap is tight, which it isn't.  And as you say, the savings wasn't huge.  I dont think it's gonna make a difference on signing or not signing somebody else.

Edited February 28, 2023 by justice98

[MartinC]

11 minutes ago, justice98 said:

I'm fan of maintaining depth rather than feeling like you can dump people because you have it.  

You want to pay your depth safety $5M a year? You draft depth at S in the later rounds of the draft and have them count less than $1M against the cap. That’s how you build your roster. Derrick Forrest will be the starter at that post safety spot and cost us $1m against the cap this year - that’s part of how you create the ability to extend Curl to a long term deal coming off his cheap rookie deal.

[KDawg]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

You want to pay your depth safety $5M a year? You draft depth at S in the later rounds of the draft and have them count less than $1M against the cap. That’s how you build your roster. Derrick Forrest will be the starter at that post safety spot and cost us $1m against the cap this year - that’s part of how you create the ability to extend Curl to a long term deal coming off his cheap rookie deal.

I’m astounded people are upset about McCain. Absolutely floored.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[method man]

You almost have to pencil a tackle. center and CB between Day 1 and Day 2. Adding one or two more picks between Day 1 and Day 2 provides a ton of flexibility to also maybe grab another TE, EDGE and/or LB relatively early

[moondog]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m astounded people are upset about McCain. Absolutely floored.

Not upset at all, just surprised like I said, given our lack of corner depth more than safety. 

[Rex Tomb]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Damn, that guy is an absolute road grader, especially the way he combo blocks and then moves to the second level so smoothly.  If we got him, I could see BRob cutting it back into Davis' gap quite often.  And he's got a bit of nasty to him, holds his blocks for an extended period of time.  

[RabidFan]

20 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

Damn, that guy is an absolute road grader, especially the way he combo blocks and then moves to the second level so smoothly.  If we got him, I could see BRob cutting it back into Davis' gap quite often.  And he's got a bit of nasty to him, holds his blocks for an extended period of time.  

 

Only prob is if he can only play RG as we all figure that is where Cosmi might land.  I don't want to do another situation like Derrick Dockery where we place a true RG on the left side and he isn't as good as he was.  Maybe Paul and play LG.  Though Cosmo with a true RG might be a better RT than Corny Lucas.

 

Def need new guards and a center and preferably a RT as well.

[Koolblue13]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I’m astounded people are upset about McCain. Absolutely floored.

I'm shocked we decided to not have a slot corner on the roster, when our starting corners are old or mostly injured. Thin room, got thinned out more.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

16 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm shocked we decided to not have a slot corner on the roster, when our starting corners are old or mostly injured. Thin room, got thinned out more.

 

I think the biggest shock was hoping against evidence that William Jackson would turn things around. Sunk cost fallacy and all that, but they desperately wanted him to fix his issues a little too badly.

[KDawg]

33 minutes ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm shocked we decided to not have a slot corner on the roster, when our starting corners are old or mostly injured. Thin room, got thinned out more.

 

We have Curl and Forrest who can both play that slot spot and probably both better than McCain at it. Can draft a corner/hybrid to play it. Both Curl and Forrest play it with Reaves/Butler as safeties. Lots of options. All better than McCain. 

[evmiii]

McCain was a liability off the ball.  He got torched over the middle as the slot guy.  I suspect Fuller will move inside to the slot, St Juste will be back outside and compete with whoever we draft or sign to play outside.  I suspect we will pickup an OL or two in free agency.  Ideally we get a stud tackle if FA or draft and move Cosmi to Guard.

 

I don’t think we will be super active in FA.  Maybe OL, but I really think the majority of our available cap $$$ will be spent resigning our own guys.  Hopefully long term deal with Payne, extension with Curl are top priorities.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Rivera talk today sounded like they’re very content with TE including Logan Thomas. Also sounds like Cosmi is being told to focus on one spot though Rivera didn’t say which. Assuming RG, then it’ll depend on whether Chris Paul is thought highly enough to be our LG. In that case you’re currently sitting with

 

Leno - Norwell - Roullier - Cosmi - Lucas

 

Lot of work to do. Assume they’ll sign one OL in free agency and draft a guy. I like Ethan Pocic a lot. I did coming out. I’d happily swap him in for Roullier. Then draft an OT in R1/2 and a Guard sometime in R2-4. Hell do another OT in R6 for depth. Cut Lucas and Roullier and save $9m this year. 
 

Leno - Paul - Pocic - Cosmi - R1 Rookie

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, MartinC said:

You want to pay your depth safety $5M a year? You draft depth at S in the later rounds of the draft and have them count less than $1M against the cap. That’s how you build your roster. Derrick Forrest will be the starter at that post safety spot and cost us $1m against the cap this year - that’s part of how you create the ability to extend Curl to a long term deal coming off his cheap rookie deal.

I wouldn’t keep him as safety depth - for the reasons you mentioned, plus Butler is waiting in the wings and I’m hoping we re-sign Reaves (who, ironically could cost a bit as depth, but he’s a ST ace too… and surely nothing like 5mil).  However, if we’re talking about essentially our starting slot corner (who also provides safety depth), that changes the calculus a bit.

 

@KDawg  I hear you, but I don’t think it’s a hang up about McCain himself (and it sure seems more like surprise than upset… maybe I missed something), but rather 1) messing with what was working, and 2) not, as far as I know, having a replacement player lined up to play in the slot.  I’m not real high on McCain (I think we can do better for sure), I’d just have waited to find a replacement before cutting him. 🤷‍♂️

This staff seems big on treating guys right though, including releasing guys so they have time to hit FA early/on time.

 

With that said, I’m betting they have a plan.  Whether it’s partially in-house (moving Fuller inside), they want to bring back DJ, or the draft/FA.  We’ll see.

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

I wouldn’t keep him as safety depth - for the reasons you mentioned, plus Butler is waiting in the wings and I’m hoping we re-sign Reaves (who, ironically could cost a bit as depth, but he’s a ST ace too… and surely nothing like 5mil).  However, if we’re talking about essentially our starting slot corner (who also provides safety depth), that changes the calculus a bit.

 

@KDawg  I hear you, but I don’t think it’s a hang up about McCain himself (and it sure seems more like surprise than upset… maybe I missed something), but rather 1) messing with what was working, and 2) not, as far as I know, having a replacement player lined up to play in the slot.  I’m not real high on McCain (I think we can do better for sure), I’d just have waited to find a replacement before cutting him. 🤷‍♂️

This staff seems big on treating guys right though, including releasing guys so they have time to hit FA early/on time.

 

With that said, I’m betting they have a plan.  Whether it’s partially in-house (moving Fuller inside), they want to bring back DJ, or the draft/FA.  We’ll see.

McCain stunk. He was better as a slot guy at the LoS but still found himself unable to communicate and losing guys in coverage. 

[MartinC]

27 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 However, if we’re talking about essentially our starting slot corner (who also provides safety depth), that changes the calculus a bit.

McCain as the slot corner was a favorable matchup for just about every team we play. He wasn’t a good option there. Corner is a position we should address in the draft - we need a upgrade at slot and better depth as well.

[method man]

I think the corner they take in Day 1 or Day 2 should be a guy who can play both inside and outside. Combine is going to matter here 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

Any solid vet corners on the market in that 26-28 range? I’d imagine we draft a CB fairly early but pair the puck with a veteran slot corner. Behind Fuller and St. Juste we don’t have much. Even bringing back Danny Johnson, depth is thin.